I Must Protest Thee My Beloved Skyrim! : V - Skyrim

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:01 am

You've made assumptions that were not in my posts.

You seem to have a very wierd concept of "Consumer Rights"

Consumers have one right and one right only: The right to purchase or not purchase what they want. It's also the most powerful right. The only way this right gets stepped on is no-returns policies, which negate the right to "unpurchase" a product.

Also, all computer software has bugs, some more notable than others. Despite what you may think or see in a game, every line of code depends on every other line of code. Expecting Skyrim to be less buggy than Microsoft Office is a sign of serious delusion or ignorance.

Furthermore, every month of bugfixing is a month that could be spent on creating more content for the game. It can take weeks to figure out why chickens are in league with the City Guard, or dragons are wearing Party Hats that they don't have, time often much better spent on making it an actual, playable game. "Sorry there's only one weapon in the game, three skills, and movement is restricted to the Cardinal Directions, but by the time we were done bugfixing, we didn't have time to add anything else"

IMO, it's better to have a game that doesn't always work as intended, than to not have it at all.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:50 pm

:blink:

Many people who have played the game have said this is one of Bethesda most polished games ever, and Bethesda has said countless times they have added new ways to detect bugs in Skyrim. Besides that patch only does "two" things...

http://n4g.com/news/882284/skyrim-day-one-patch-detailed

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:37 am

I've been playing TES games since Daggerfall, and they've always been buggy, glitchy affairs. They're wonderful games, don't get me wrong, but I'm actually glad they're doing a release day patch instead of waiting months to take care of stuff.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:50 am

This is actually a good thing considering there is no game that doesnt have its bugs~ It's good to know Bethesda are actually fixing bugs asap~ Unlike Dead Island which still doesnt seem to have released a patch for its game breaking save file glitch...

P.S: FO:NV isnt Bethesda, it's Obsidian.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:01 am

It's actually about consumer rights. If you let the companies set the standards, it won't be to our advantage.

compared to old games, this is a big improvement, even without the day 1 patch

morrowind anyone?
patches change the game so much

and there are even today games out there, that i couldn't even start without the first patch (and that one came not on day one)

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:04 pm

Expecting Skyrim to be less buggy than Microsoft Office is a sign of serious delusion or ignorance.

And this kind of talk is a sign of one being quite a sociable person.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:47 pm

1. Fallout: New Vegas wasn't developed by Bethesda Game Studios but Obsidian Entertainment who are famous for rushing out buggy games.

2. A day one patch doesn't mean the game is broken, it means that Bethesda cares about its customers. It's the same kind of ludicrous assumption as claiming that Linux is less secure than Windows because it receives more bug fixes.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:28 pm

Day 1 patch?

I'm fookin' delighted :celebration:

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:51 pm

your twenty paragraph complaint made me angry
i read the first and last sentences only

why the (censored) would there not be a patch the first day?

the first day of fallout 3, crazy psychedelic geometry started shooting out of the middle of my screen off into infinity
it lasted about 10 seconds and then stopped

that was the only bug i came across all day- it was hilarious and enjoyable- turned out to be one of the best games ive ever played

youre not playing all 300 hours on the first day so guess what, the chances of you coming across a bug- or even noticing it if you do- are slim
why are you imagining the game isnt playable at all?

your complaint was outrageous and completely uncalled for

speaking as someone who had to play fallout 3 with no patches due to no internet I can tell you that that geometry becomes gamebreaking when it becomes preminent.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:36 pm

Ok, I'll comment.

There is no need to conspire. Each company is trying to cut the costs and earn more. If any of them have a chance to invest less, they will take it. If they get that chance is up to consumers. If we don't resist, they all do it and lower the standards. So, the assumption about conspiracy is yours.

If they wouldn't fix them at all, they would have problems selling further releases, as you suggest, so they have to make patches when it doesn't work as it should in the first place. So, invest as little as you can, but not less. They will let the game out before they really should in order to keep a pace with the competition on the market (not every player of TES is a sworn fan, and might decide to buy something else) and postpone bug fixing for later and even benefit from the gamers finding their bugs. This is not an assumption. That's what already happened. The things I'm saying about racing with competition and negligence are not exclusive to Bethesda, but that doesn't mean that it's nobody's fault.

No, that's your assumption about what I mean. My guess would be that they didn't spent enough time finding them, indicating they don't care. Of course, your interpretation is also possible, but what exactly is true is not important to me. All I say is that the amount of bugs indicates negligence regardless of the company we are talking about, and the amount of bugs in TES is above average in my experience (even if I account for open world). It is up to consumers to resist the lowering of standards in the long run or, of course, if it doesn't bother you, to accept it.

Not that I played Skyrim, but considering the prior experience that's what I expect. If I'm wrong, I'll be happy.

Of course I don't. I just happen to see many bugs in previous releases. More than I estimate to be reasonable, so I conclude they don't care as they should (if you ask me who am I to estimate, I can ask you the same question). Combined with a day one patch info, I conclude that the things are not changing much. And we pay for their products.

Of course. Not that I assumed so.

This much said, I'm out.

You can exit the discussion if you choose, as is your option. I will add the following though. When I try to interpret your views, of course I won't get it exactly right, because I"m not in your head. But this deflects from the real discussion, which is that no game can be perfect because the humans designing them are imperfect. And the more complex they become, the less perfect they will be on launch day. You can argue that they only put out patches to sell more games, and I can argue that they do it because they want to improve the product. Either way, as long as we get the patch, then it is a good outcome for all. You keep referring to how the game "should" be from the very beginning, but that isn't realistic. Should a game be perfect from the start and have zero issues? Of course, but most people here realize that is not possible.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:49 pm

Welcome to the 21st century. It's not Beth's fault that YOU don't have your xbox connected.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:51 pm

I can understand TC, games not working properly on release is annoying and if there's no connection for the x-box available, it's ugly.

It's not even just smaller bugs 'n glitches, some games nowadays come out with whole functions not working and serious stuff that in no way could've been missed during test playing.

But for this kind of game, I think it's a bit unfair to be upset. These RPGs are huge and complex, they're pretty much bound to malfunction one way or the other. If you cannot get your console online anyways, what does it matter when the first patch is being offered?

By the way, I have no idea if this works, but aren't you able to download bugfixes to a pc somewhere and then transfer the patch to the console somehow?

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:50 pm

You can exit the discussion if you choose, as is your option.

That is because I tried to exit it earlier, but somehow I always return.

I will add the following though. When I try to interpret your views, of course I won't get it exactly right, because I"m not in your head. But this deflects from the real discussion, which is that no game can be perfect because the humans designing them are imperfect. And the more complex they become, the less perfect they will be on launch day. You can argue that they only put out patches to sell more games, and I can argue that they do it because they want to improve the product. Either way, as long as we get the patch, then it is a good outcome for all. You keep referring to how the game "should" be from the very beginning, but that isn't realistic. Should a game be perfect from the start and have zero issues? Of course, but most people here realize that is not possible.

Never said perfect. Anyway, the most important thing - I'm preloading it, and I'm confident I'll enjoy it. Wish the same to you. Cheers.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:18 am

Bethesda /=/ Obsidian

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:58 pm

I'm thrilled there's going to be a patch so quickly. These games are huge and many things can bump into each other. I'm getting Skyrim on release day knowing it will not be a perfect game. That's ok. They don't just make games; they make worlds and I love 'em for it. I'm ready to play and I'll report any bugs I find in the clearest and most detailed way I can, so they can be fixed. See you al in Skyrim.

:tes:

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:41 pm

join 2004, connect your console to the internet

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:18 pm

tl:dr
But I guess having the stuff in the patch at release does svck, it is still better than the alternative- no patching.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:18 am

Day one patches are very common. I don't see why you're complaining about Bethesda continuing to work at their game even after it went gold.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:15 pm

the price for a large awesome game....bugs. you have the right to complain, and we have the right to think you are overdramatic.

"hey bethesda, we would like less bugs" is something they ALREADY KNOW. sure, less bugs is better, but they usually fix them.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:30 pm

Day 1 patch is good, if you're posting here that means you have access to the Internet, stop complaining

Also, Bethesda didn't make New Vegas

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:30 pm

Would it make you happy to buy a brand new car that can't drive, or it can, but it stops every once in a while, but you can take it to a mechanic day one, or any time you like?

Software and motor vehicles really don't couple well for an anology.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:22 pm

Honestly, I'm glad for a patch. If you wanted a flawless game, it could take quite a while for them to find every bug. This is because, especially in a sandbox game, everyone plays differently. As such, some people will do something that another person wouldn't have thought of. And when you consider the millions of people that plan to play Skyrim, these bugs are much more common to come across. It could take ages for a group of a couple testers, even a couple hundred of them, to find every bug. This "Day 1 Patch" merely means that Bethesda has found a few more of these bugs and hopes to get rid of them to prevent those "save glitch issues." And yes, for those without internet, it svcks. I doubt there will be a massive game breaking bug though because these are much easier to spot than a minor graphics glitch. Just be glad that you are getting the game as bug free as Bethesda can make it, within reason of course. Unless you'd like to wait until 2014 for The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, the bug free edition.

(The argument that there will be bugs is quite valid because of this reason.)

P.S. I don't mean to sound rude through any of this. I apologize if I have offended someone.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:21 pm

Don't blame the player, hate the game.

The developers have little to nothing to do with when the game is released -
there have been a growing tendency in the gaming-industry that to push back
the release of various titles, bugbusting have taking a step or two down the list of priorities, so that the games
may the hit the market faster and therefore earn quick profit.

Then the developers must rely upon the help of the gamers's feedback and their own experiences
with the game to stomp out the last few bugs, and at this point, most of the dev-team already have their hands full with
the developing of the DLC or of a new game that needs to be at least 90 % ready before release.

I blame capitalism.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:18 pm

pointless spam removed.

Why comment on a thread you couldn't be bothered to read? It took more attention to respond than it would have to ignore.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:09 pm

I have to say ive noticed this disturbing trend as well and quite frankly its starting to scare me a bit i mean ok right now its day one patches but what happens on say next gen consoles its just well enough is enough what happened to extensive bug&glitch testing before release not just using your fanbase as one giant workforce of free testers it kinda makes me feel alienated and op im in the same boat as you no i net connection so like wtf seriously