...You do know that the developers have had a week without being able to work on the game, right? So they fix bugs. Might as well have them fixed on day 1 than day 9.

You can't expect a game as big as a TES game to be released bug free.

And so many things do not depend on a world being big or open. Like quests disappearing from your journal, objects disappearing (or not appearing in the first place) from your inventory, game crashes when you approach buildings under some angle, sound problems (on a card that no other game makes a problem with), jumping 100m whenever you are running up the battlement and press jump (and probably tens more)... Not everything is open world related.

Demons souls didnt IIRC. Dark souls did though...

Edit: @Estagar, I agree, not all the problems stem from open enviroments, but the sheer size of the game implies more code. More code means more potential for bugs. A journal system that keeps track of all those quests, plus the timer to keep track of your time limit for the quest, that means more code, and thus, more bugs. You see where I'm going with this right?

Bye

Next time you feel the need to write a thesis make it in the form of a poem please.

That's a huge assumption- they are open world related because the code is there, it's part of the same game where those things are occurring. A quest disappears from your journal. This could be because you interacted with some part of the open world that glitched the quest. Objects disappearing, same thing, you interacted with something and the code didn't like it.

The more choices the player has, the more likely something is going to break, because there are literally thousands of different ways to interact with one in-game object.

Well, I think that this topic got enough of my participation and I became tiresome to myself, too. My points were mostly about principles, but we still have to see what they really made. So, I propose that the principles wait until we see more. Bye.

I'm sorry but this is the year 2011. If you cannot hook your console up to the internet even if only periodically it's not Bethesda's fault.

Yeah, I used to drive up the mountain to my friends house to use his internet till I got it for myself. Turns out internet is cheap in TN, lol.

What, you actually believed large, complex, open world games could be bug-free?

How else are they going to give you patches besides over the internet? Do you want Todd Howard to come to your house himself and give you a flash drive to install it on? :rofl:

Yes, that's exactly what I expect, the bare minimum. He better bring nachos and whiskey as well.

Complaining about shipping out a broken game is one thing but complaining about patching an issue that you may not experience is another. I have games that auto-patch on Steam all the time when I review the patch notes nearly 90% of the time I never experienced what was being fixed because the game worked as intended for me.

There are bugs that aren't experienced until it is released to the public (due to the thousands of PC build variants) that is the way of life.

thats just to be expected with games of this magnitude and size, but nontheless i understand your concern. you don't want any game breaking glitches :brokencomputer:

We all want the games to get bigger and "better" with more stuff to do and places to see and this and that and ... - the wishlist grows very long.
The sheer amount of "stuff", and the quality of it, in some of these games, Skyrim being a prime example, is almost mind boggling considering
what is feasible in terms of length of production, the huge cost involved in it, and to a degree the technology available. This is of course a good
thing. The drawback being the bigger and better the game is - the chances of bugs, small and big alike, being in it is upped significantly. This is
a given and really goes without saying. The old saying 'no pain no gain' is very much applicable here.

Good thing we then have the, nowadays not exactly unheard of, day one patches? Well, yes I suppose. If there are bugs, and the developers
are aware of them, I'd like them squished asap. It also shows in a way that they didn't just all go on vacation the very same day the game gone
gold was announced. However, this all is a bit of a two-edged sword really. If a game production, for any of a myriad different reasons, takes
longer than was initially planned for, the cost of the production goes up, and the profit margin goes down. This might make it very tempting to
release the game in a not-so-finished-and-bugfree-state - and then just apply the 'let's patch it up later guys - the svckers will by it anyways''.
This also is not exactly unheard of, yes? *cough-EA-cough*

After all, the powers that be don't give a rats buttocks about the pesky details of our gaming experiences. The little, or not so little, bugs that
drives us up the wall. I'm sure they prefer things to go as smooth as possible because that means better publicity and more revenue but as far
as they really caring about "us" and our gaming experience...no, no they don't. They didn't yesterday, they don't today, and guess what - the
prognosis for the tomorrows looks pretty crappy too. I do believe Todd & The Gang care. I think they love games and take great pride in their
work - and what great jobs they have! But they have bosses, who's got bosses...and at the end of the day, for the gang to keep their awesome
jobs - they have to do, just like you and me, what they are told.

Even without a USB device, wouldn't it be possible to download the patch to a DVD disc using a computer, then install that disc to the 360 console?

Welcome to the 21st century, where 67% of all people on this planet have a cell phone. Businesses cater to the vast majority and unfortunately for people still living in the 80's with no internet connection, most gamers are plugged in and that is the future of everything. Get with the times or get left behind. The information super highway, use it or fade into obscurity.

your twenty paragraph complaint made me angry
i read the first and last sentences only

why the (censored) would there not be a patch the first day?

the first day of fallout 3, crazy psychedelic geometry started shooting out of the middle of my screen off into infinity
it lasted about 10 seconds and then stopped

that was the only bug i came across all day- it was hilarious and enjoyable- turned out to be one of the best games ive ever played

youre not playing all 300 hours on the first day so guess what, the chances of you coming across a bug- or even noticing it if you do- are slim
why are you imagining the game isnt playable at all?

your complaint was outrageous and completely uncalled for

It's not about setting a standard. Software companies aren't conspiring with each other to pass off buggy software to consumers. If they were, then they wouldn't be making an effort to produce patches. They would simply release the game and that would be the end of it. They benefit from producing popular, innovative, immersive experiences, and if they were intentionally not squashing many bugs then their business would suffer and eventually die. You are making assumptions about how many bugs they have found vs. how many they felt like patching and saying that it is a small number indicating they don't care. Who are you to say how much effort they put in? Unless you work for Bethesda then you have no clue just how many bugs they were able to squash before it went gold. Settle down a bit, everything is not a conspiracy against you.

You've made assumptions that were not in my posts.

I understand the issue with the internet. I have a usb internet modem card for my internet connection on my pc. Ive looked into whether this was compatible with my ps3 and xbox and was told by verizon that it is not, would be too slow for it, and would eat up my 5gb monthly allowance before the end of the billing cycle. So im wondering if there is anyway to get the patch through my pc and put it on my PS3. Ive attempted patching games through a usb flash drive before and it did not work probably because I did somthing wrong. I have updated my Ps3 through a flash drive before im not sure if this includes all game patchs released or not,but I do not believe so if my memory is correct. If it is not possible I also wonder if I will be able to complete the main quest and the majority of the side quests without the patch or if I will need to get the patch? Any information would be appreciated.

So you'd rather they just go "oh yeah there were bugs but ya know...5 years working in the game we tired, we'll fix it next year" ??? who cares, just shows there dedication to wanting to make the game BETTER.

Actually not. I have made inferences from your various posts. If those inferences are incorrect then you can easily correct them here. Based on the things you said, it seems as though you are saying Bethesda is not working hard enough to squash bugs pre-launch. You have no direct knowledge of their efforts pre-launch.

Ok, I'll comment.



There is no need to conspire. Each company is trying to cut the costs and earn more. If any of them have a chance to invest less, they will take it. If they get that chance is up to consumers. If we don't resist, they all do it and lower the standards. So, the assumption about conspiracy is yours.



If they wouldn't fix them at all, they would have problems selling further releases, as you suggest, so they have to make patches when it doesn't work as it should in the first place. So, invest as little as you can, but not less. They will let the game out before they really should in order to keep a pace with the competition on the market (not every player of TES is a sworn fan, and might decide to buy something else) and postpone bug fixing for later and even benefit from the gamers finding their bugs. This is not an assumption. That's what already happened. The things I'm saying about racing with competition and negligence are not exclusive to Bethesda, but that doesn't mean that it's nobody's fault.



No, that's your assumption about what I mean. My guess would be that they didn't spent enough time finding them, indicating they don't care. Of course, your interpretation is also possible, but what exactly is true is not important to me. All I say is that the amount of bugs indicates negligence regardless of the company we are talking about, and the amount of bugs in TES is above average in my experience (even if I account for open world). It is up to consumers to resist the lowering of standards in the long run or, of course, if it doesn't bother you, to accept it.

Not that I played Skyrim, but considering the prior experience that's what I expect. If I'm wrong, I'll be happy.



Of course I don't. I just happen to see many bugs in previous releases. More than I estimate to be reasonable, so I conclude they don't care as they should (if you ask me who am I to estimate, I can ask you the same question). Combined with a day one patch info, I conclude that the things are not changing much. And we pay for their products.



Of course. Not that I assumed so.

This much said, I'm out.

Holy overraction, Batman!

Before Day One patches, the game would just remain buggy until the company got around to patching it. I don't know about you, but I prefer getting on-the-fly bug fixes as fast as the team can get them out.

Also, Bethesda didn't develop New Vegas.

Stop whining about good things, and try to remember that people are starving to death while you write overblown rants about the state of a game.