I understand appealing to the masses, after all the game by and large should appeal to the majority of gamers, that is fair, and understandable. However, I am running into an increasingly obvious bias that is bringing me to the verge of ripping my hair out. There are a number of potencial ideas being shot down by members of the community on the basis that they personally wouldn't play that type of character, or use that particular mechanic. I understand this argument if the mechanic or character type falls outside the boundary of TES lore or style, but what if it doesn't? Does every feature of the game have to appeal to the overwhelming majority of gamers to be included in the game, or can it not also appeal to large minorities as well? I'm not talking about fringe minorities,

I'm talking about large pools of players, like those who enjoy playing stealth based characters and thieves, those looking for a more avid role-play experience in cities wanting improvements in AI so that they can make use of fun mechanics in their mercantile skills, and speech-craft skills, those players looking for intriguing options as mages who want to add more possibilities, like becoming a Lich et cetera... None of these things are outside the realm of TES lore or style, and yet, there is a great deal of opposition to them by quite a large number of players, purely on the basis that they don't want to play any type of character that would personally benefit from those additions...

Simply put, what's the point in role-playing a character, if your experiences by the end of the game are no different then that of everyone elses, did you really take up the role of your character or merely perform the same stunts in a different style?

Edit: This may be opening a can of worms, but discussion and debate as to WHY certain mechanics that fall within lore, but are heavily debated shouldn't be added is also welcome of this forum, even if the topic has already been posted elsewhere...

I would like as much diversity as possible. Everything has room for improvement, some things however are extremely unlikely to happen, but I am all open for new stuff as long as multiplayer is out.

There shouldn't be "universal" thing. It should be necessary at least three if not a dozen playthroughs to see and experience everything in the game, that is different paths, different choices, outcomes and consequences. I want the game to force me to play it more than one time.

I'd like them to return to Consequences but I suspect they are too stuck on Choice to bother.

Plus it's easier just making everything doable by everyone, whether it makes sense or not.

I agree 100% with the OP.

I think you are missing the point in some of the oposition to certain things. Take the lich thing. a lot of people were against that (including me) not because I have no interest in playing a lich (allthough I don't), but because I don't see it actually working. You are right though, that some people (I'm sure I'm guilty of it aswell at some point) are quick to dismiss things they won't personally be using. However often they do have legitmate concerns with the feature.

I still remember my first time playing Daggerfall, when I first walked into the city - I was completely awestruck at how much there was to do. As I made my way to the castle, I saw shops, taverns, libraries, a multitude of guilds...I was literally overwhelmed at just how much was out there waiting for me. And how I could do whatever I wanted, when I wanted - everything was up to me.

In Morrowind I didn't get this feeling until I made it to Balmora, and saw all the different factions and questgivers that populated the world. In Oblivion...I never felt overwhelmed. There was still plenty to do, much more than most games let you, but everything just kind of presented itself in an orderly fashion, one quest at a time, one plot revelation at a time.

When I walk into the biggest city in Skyrim - I guess Winterhold, I want to feel the way I did in Daggerfall.

Agreed, besides I don't understand says he doesn't want something in game if it doesn't affect, even if I don't want to become a lich I would liek the option, maybe after some time I would actually try it just for the experience.

P.S: Except for online and multiplayer :stare:

Yep. I think "Least Common Denominator" design is here to stay...sadly.

Can't have any real Consequences, because that "inhibits roleplay."

Just like the complaints about starting in jail and how it "restricts roleplay" by forcing you to explain how your character ended up in jail- since apparently if you start by waking up at an inn, you don't have to explain how you got there as you were obviously born there and never moved until the beginning of the game. Uh, yeah... :blink:

There are genuine problems with the Lich mechanic as well, and its understandable to a degree. However this is once again one of those things that is SUPPOSED to overpower a player. As a werewolf in Morrowind there were ways in which the mechanic overpowered you but there were balances as well, particularly at the expense of freedom to enter cities, same thing with vampires in both recent TES games, a Lich would be no different, and as such a quest line along those lines could be intriguing.

Yea I never got the hate towards the jail beginning really, it seems be work fairly well and has sort of become a nice little tradition

I can kind of see the argument in regard to starting jail restricting roleplay....but there has to be some kind of start. They could do the Fallout 3 start again...but that would just impose it's own set of restrictions. The beginning of the game is going to impose restrictions one way or the other.

I don't see why someone would oppose an idea or concept simply on the basis that they don't want to use it personally. One can always change their mind, and more diversity in a game means more re-playability.

I like the idea of keeping things open. I'd like the cities to be dynamic as well.

P.S. Poll is broken. If you make Only This and Only That then you shouldn't use multiple choice. Make it so the poll says This Needs Improvement and That Needs Improvement.

I't's not that it would be overpowered, but that you wouldn't be able to talk to anyone, wear the same kind of armor, use the same animations or do anything that relates to normal gameplay, this is why I don't see it working. But enough of that, this thread is not about liches, I do see your point, but I dont think what you are decribing is too often the case.

I suppose I wouldnt mind a way to be uber-dude master of everything...so long as it required some thought to attain.

In Morrowind you could become head of Two of the Three Houses but only through some rather specific manipulation.

In Oblivion you could become head of absolutely everything without any manipulation or calculation at all.

Plus having Guilds who were competing and at ends made a lot more sense then all of them just getting along.

I think that a Fallout 3-like beggining would restrict the roleplay, you wouldn't be able to come up with how you were before you got caught in prision or how did you ended up there, these anonymous backgrounds can be filled with whatever the player has in mind. In Fallout 3 it was more like, here you are, you are this person, born in this location in this certain time, and then you are dropped in the wasteland which makes you wonder: What kind of person am I going to be?. Rather than, who am I?

Indeed.

It works well if your character is supposed to be pretty green, but if you want to play someone with a history you're **** out of luck. It also sets forth what your parents were like, what your upbringing was like, and provides you with either a safe place to return to OR the biggest cliche of all time.

Oh noes, dey kilt mah fam'ly. Pa! Ma! Suzy Q! Noooooooo


P.S.
Nice Avatar, mine seems to have disappeared

Poll is corrected, although at the expense of undoing a bit of previous voting.

I always downloaded a mod that gave me an alternate starting place. Not because of it restricting role play though. Only because instead of spending 15 minutes doing stuff I have done 1000 times I can get through the whole thing in 2 minutes and start in the Waterfront District : D

Yea that really annoyed me in Oblivion, I hated that starting thing. I still love the jail concept though.... All we need is a skip option though ^^

I'd like to see them re-introduce a back path to the main quest. In Morrowind you could kill Vivec and take the artifact to Yagrum to get wrathguard, albeit with severe penalties. Multiple paths in the main story would be a very good addition in my mind.

Poll still needs work: second set of options is for "If you picked certain options in part 1" but you must pick at least one of those options anyway. Needs a bail-out option to go along with the other options in part 1.

What should be included: Whatever the gods of TES (aka The Developers) choose to add, and have time to do well.

Thank you for changing poll. As Alois said, it still does need a "None of the above" option on the second poll due to the way these polls work (Must choose at least one per poll).

My biggest arguments has been for quite awhile that there needs to be some sort of change to the system in terms of consequences, and a lot more depth added to guilds in particular. If you are forced to steal or interact with another guild in the process of your quests, the conflict should register, and possibly result in your inability to continue down the path of another guild. Further there should simply be some guild lines that entirely disqualify from other guild purely by the nature of the faction or guild, like in Morrowinds great houses, but even more generally applied. Being part of the Imperial Guard and the Thieves Guild for example should be possible, but should also have consequences, or possibly benefits depending on the direction taken with the quest lines. There should be some depth to such story-lines.

Furthering this, many guilds should offer the option of specialization within the guild leading to further specific advancement, and the paths shouldn't lead down a linear line of quests, but completion of quests should open multiple new opportunities, and some of these opportunities should disappear upon the completion of quests while others stay. Even the mere passage of time should unlock quest opportunities... To add guilds should have numerous main quest lines, a single primary quest-line culminating in your promotion to the leader of that guild is immersion breaking, and incredibly unbelievable. You should be involved for awhile near the top, and without a quest line open your own opportunities to take control of the guild triggering a quest, or through time, dedication, and work within the guild, gain opportunities after a really long time in game.

This is of course a different topic, and only a small fraction of my ideas, and the ideas of many other individuals on the forums... However, it takes little time to see the implications of such ideas in relation to this post, and how much improvement they would offer to the game and immersion, so long as you aren't a completionist.

Chaged my vote, so as I said I don't mind many features even if I don't use them and as far as I'm concerned eveerything you mentioned needs to be improved...