Savage countered well are your reasons for not liking Tactics. There is nothing canon wise wrong with the game. It wasn't meant to be an RPG and the graphics are pretty good. It has real time option and is the only Fallout where we can prone and really control our companions. It is a great Tactical game and has a great story and even though it isn't an RPG, it has different ways to play the game with different outcomes. I rank it better than Fallout 3.

well i did not enjoy it or like it too it wasnt like a fallout game to me

I would rank 3 higher than Tactics but I wouldn't fully say it's not a Fallout game. But as Styles said it was an altered genre but other than possibly a ridiculous set up(Story) was Fallout enough.

Don't care though. Wouldn't bother me if it didn't exist.

3 hinted some of it is canon. New Vegas mentioned the Enclave in conjunction with a duraframe eyebot and Chicago.

So assuming MWBoS is established and there's an Enclave outpost that might gear Bethesda up for 4. Afterall they seem to value the "iconic" factions the most. Chicago is a power-house of a city and there's the surroundings. Although I think it was Tactics that said the city itself was deserted....

They'll pick and pull appropriate parts as canon I guess.

I personally wouldn't mind the midwest. Or even southeast.

The mentions of Chicago are dubious though. Especially in Lonesome Road. And after 3 even Obsidian feels caught up in having a "signature city+structure" as BGS has done since Morrowind.

Sears/Willis Tower anyone? No? Bah.

Of coarse so is "The Commonwealth" and the MA area with M.I.T.(Now The Institute) which 3 brought up. And it's close to feel influence from 3 as 2 did from 1. I thought the whole android liberation thing was silly in retrospect.

It was the absolute antithesis to BGS trying to make 3 a bleak hellhole, at least in music, mood, setting.

So the population is damned and progress at a negative amount due to a ton of survivors crazed and/or raiding and not enough people to utilize the resources shown or reuse the wreckage that's intact, yet there's enough kind people around to help "hideaway synthetic humanoids?"

The ideas cool and of coarse a nod to the railroad.

In practice it makes no sense to be around.

Fallout Tactics doen't have a ridiculous story. If anything Fallout 3 has a far more ridiculous story and it isn't even explained well. IMO

Chicago isn't mentioned much in Fallout Tactics at all, only that the MWBoS crash landed on the outskirts of a once thriving metropolis called Chicago.

You sure you aren't talking about PoS? THAT game was a sin.

I had the same thought.

Very well. We'll go by New Vegas if need be. Also I doubt a loop would be thrown that it wasn't the outskirts of the city Chicago. I assume most Americans know what that city is. The BoS would clearly know.

Also FO 3's story wasn't ridiculous. If anything it was simplistic, couple of holes, and obviously linear and background circumstances not well explained. Factions were copy and pasted.

Tactics story was contrived from the get go. Mind you I didn't play Tactics to the full end, and I played it almost a decade ago. Plus again it's opinion. I'm not saying 3's story is ultimately better. It's less randomly spun and end of the day 3's side writing was better.

Speaking on the get go, exactly how did the BoS amass enough resources to build airships east when not even the NCR did at the time. Lyons group didn't get those resources despite traveling all the way east. Lyons also wasn't with the MWBoS.

I presume they left Maxson/Lost Hills a couple years after they disaster. Did 3 mention if they contacted MWBoS? Unsure. They acquired vertibirds from the Enclave after the assault and only then did they acquire any functioning flying aircraft.


You have to remind me about Tactics timeline. Perhaps it's BGS's fault that Lyons group being deployed after a disaster doesn't make sense in the sense that the BoS would think the worst and hold off from pushing further east.

Still Tactics skimped on details and let vagueness rule as 3. New Vegas excelled at details. From what I remember the story itself is contrived after the beginning set up as well. Something about beastlords, super mutants, robots, calculator?

It all reuses elements from 1 and 2. Tim Cain shakes his head at this.

End of the day even if it loosely makes sense it's standard Hollywood flair. Lots of events /=/ Complexity.


Forgive me if my thoughts are jumbled Styles. I'm typing all this from a mobile device. It's a ton easier to write exactly what you want then review it/correct sentences on an actual computer with keyboard.

You should play Tactics agian:

The Brotherhood were having debates about letting in new Blood. This issue is brought up in Fallout 3 and New Vegas. The Brotherhood elders couldn't agree and the matter wasn't going to go away. After the Master was destroyed the majority of the Elders saw a way to put an end to the debate. They sent them on a mission to follow the super mutants east. So they built airships, airships which many knew/suspected were very dangerous and expressed great concern that the mission would fail, main worry was the threat of storms. Only the minority (those that wanted change) were sent on this very dangerous mission. A storm did in fact come and it distroyed most of the airships and those that ended up outside of Chicago got their because they were blown off course and crashed. They weren't sent to Chicago.

I look at this as the Brotherhood winning an inevitable civil war without firing a shot.

When the airships were built the Brotherhood was still a strong resourceful faction and the NCR was just getting started. It was around the time when NCR was nothing more than the one town of Shady Sands. Again Chicago wasn't where the MWBoS were sent. It was completely by mistake that they ended up where they did. Also keep in mind Fallout Tactics takes place 5 years before Lyons was born.

When Lyons was sent East to DC the Brotherhood was nothing but a shadow of what it was at the time of the airconvoy. The NCR had grown to take over all of California and parts of other states. The Brotherood no longer had the ability to build airships, they were trying not to get wiped out by the NCR.

Also keep in mind that the Brotherood Elders didn't want Lyons and his people dead. Lyons was smart, he didn't express his opinions about letting in wastelanders until he got to DC. So two key things there, the BoS at the time of Lyons was/is almost died and Lyons wasn't on the Elders hit list.

The MWBoS are mentioned briefly in Fallout 3. There is some debate about them possibly being mentioned in New Vegas. Bethesda has already said the high-level events of Tactics are canon. So this all hints that they have some plans for them in the future IMO.

Fallout Tactics explains alot of the game and for an non-RPG it did well in that respect, unlike Fallout 3 which was sold as an RPG. The story isn't contrived. Fallout 3's story is. The game is more plot hole than story. Its just Fallout and Fallout 2 mixed together and set in DC. A DC that is totally unrealistic and inconsistant with the Fallout series.

Hell I find far more problems with Fallout 3 than Fallout Tactics.

Look I am not saying you need to like Fallout Tactics or that you should think its better than Fallout 3. I am simply saying it is a very underestimated Fallout game that has been unfairly kicked around and bashed for years and is only now finally getting some respect. There is nothing seriously wrong canon wise (canon breaking) about the game.

I liked it and I have a theory about how Legion Centurions got those pieces of power armor.

I have been thinking it over and it would make sense that Bethesda had Obsidian do that so the MWBoS could have familiar power armor like T-45d and T-51b instead of the unique kind that has pretty much been given to the Enclave.

I could be wrong so don't take that as fact.

And perhaps Veronica could've been talking about the MWBoS instead of the CWBoS vs. the Outcasts when mentioning a civil war.

(This is just an idea so please don't be too mean) The CWBoS is an incredible distance from the Mojave and they didn't really fight the Outcasts in F3. They just said [censored] that idea to Lyons and left.

The MWBoS (under Barnaky) however did have a civil war of sorts. The MLA could be considered a civil war due to BoS members joining the MLA as they fought back and forth.

It's just an idea but one that seems more logical to me. Who would travel from DC to the Mojave to tell Veronica about the CWBoS? That's across an entire continet! However the Mid West is only halfway across and any caravan driver who goes through Legion land or explorer who travels the northwestern US (which is still largely mysterious to us) can travel to the Mid West, see this huge conflict and come back thinking it was a civil war.

I like that

I also wondered if she could have been talking about the MWBoS because the Oucast and Lyons didn't fight one another, they simply left in the middle of the night. It would be great if it turned out that she was talking about Barnaky MWBoS fighting MLA.

People were going between Lost Hills and DC. Just look at Arthur Maxson. He was brought to Lyons ten years after Lyons got to DC. He was born in the West and brought to Lyons for safety. We know know it was because the conflict with NCR. So it is very possible that one of those groups learned of the civil war and reported it to the Elders in the west.

That's true however how would Veronica know?

She hangs around the 188 Trade Post all of the time and if she had overheard a conversation between an elder and a BoS member who traveled across a continent I can't see her not proudly stating her stealth or (if she had met them in person) not even talking about those people who went on crazy missions across the continent.

Not saying that's impossible but it just seems like it wasn't what they were going for. If it was then well I guess I looked at it all the wrong way.

Both ways are valid

I agree, I thought it was a great game, despite it's minor flaws. I liked the graphics too. I was looking forward to seeing F3 being created based on what Fallout Tactics has done. I also liked the large selection of weapons and had no problem with many of them being real world and more modern.

pos? i have no idea what that might be can someone tell me (i am not joking)

I'm not sure, but I think he means Brotherhood of Steel, the one released for consoles several years back, but instead calling it Piece of S*** (PoS) as opposed to BoS, otherwise I have no idea either

lol

That is correct. That game is refered to as Fallout: PoS, or The Burned Game around these forums.

^ Exactly. That game is a blemish on the series, and really isn't considered part of it by most fans.

they did? what part i don't remeber them ever saying any thing about the mwbos and i've played 3 like 10 or 11 times since i got it or was it when they say some thing about the bos back west not camunicating with them any more

it has been a while tho since i last played

The people at the Citidale talk about the Western BoS and the Midwestern BoS.

It was a part of Lyons mission to check up on them.

I'm pretty dissapointed with how Bethesda talked about them looking back on it. There was a small bunker that Lyons approached and they told him they're weak and to go away.

I think it would've been more interesting if Lyons had sat down with a high ranking member to talk about the philisophies of the Brotherhood and why the MWBoS went rogue. If they had then they could've said the MWBoS had persuaded Lyons of how wrong the BoS' views are and then I would believe that when he got to DC he changed all of his men's opinions of it.

Emil Pagliarulo was the guy that said the High-Level events of Tactics are canon.

As for the mention, I believe it was Rothschild. Something like "A group went rogue, long story."

Fallout 3 has four game guide books. Each one aparently different. I only have the Collector's edition. I guess I am not done buying Fallout 3 related items. I need to get my hands on the GTY edition and the Fallout 3 Prima Official Game Guide. Doing a quick internet search, they are still $40 a pop and with shipping. I'll get them at some point, hopefully at a garbage sale or something. Not going to piss away $100 right now.

ah well seeing as i've never beaten fallout tactics and only played for like 10 mins after the tutorial i wouldn't have cought that then

Just played a little of Fallout Tactics, and in the http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/3883/mwbos.jpg there's more proof that the MWBoS can be a bit more cruel, they actually do crucifixions (which I know they also do after the Barnaky ending, sliders showing super mutants crucified.)

Just wanted to throw that out here.

Yep, that is why I like them so much. They were bad ass before Barnaky and even better after him.

Some other things they do before Barnaky besides crucifixions:

They run labour camps/gulags

They us POWs and criminals for dangerous/deadly work such as transporting a radioactive weapon (under armed guard of course) to bunkers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtXhuaTcohY

I just like the idea of a cruel, miliaristic faction rising from people who wanted more freedom while a part of the BoS. The irony of becoming a dictatorship.