Mysterious new glyphs : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Mon May 07, 2012 10:22 pm

It does resemble the script on the Elder Scroll. Maybe they were going for that look instead?

» Mon May 07, 2012 10:15 pm

Okay, so to flesh out part of my original question: this text is new as far as I can tell to the series, and does not resemble any Meric or Daedric characters. Also of mild interest is that Daedric script is almost completely absent from Skyrim. Any thoughts as to its nature, and why it appears in the Oghma Infinium as well, while prior incarnations contained Daedric?

Because Daedric is too easy to read just by looking at it.

» Tue May 08, 2012 2:20 am

Mehrunes may have a point. I looked at the Elder Scroll image and I'm not sure I'd agree that the two styles of text look similar.

To refine my question further, does this text fit into the lore somehow, and do we know anything more about it than these images?

» Tue May 08, 2012 10:59 am

To refine my question further, does this text fit into the lore somehow, and do we know anything more about it than these images?

The http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/5991/oghma1.jpg page definitely says something relevant, since it makes explicit mention of dwemer ("duarv"), "Septim", and "Oghma Infinium". The mentions of the iceberg and lockbox also make sense, since that's where the book is found. But even with properly replacing the characters, it's difficult to understand when you don't have any punctuation while relying on Google Translate. Not to mention, the whole right side of the page is broken up which makes it hard to find the word breaks, so it will probably need someone who's more familiar with Portuguese to help. And if no one else has done it, I suppose I should finish converting the page to use proper English characters (some are being quite difficult to match up, since they're so small and purposely smudged and blurred a bit).

As for the "arcane scribblings", I'm definitely seeing English writing on some of the pages, just in a very stylized font. On the bottom section of http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/1664/arcane02.jpg, I see:
"(something). This person came across the Oghma Infinium, recognized it..."
On http://i40.tinypic.com/23o0fq.png I see:
"Alduin World-Eater: Alduin is the Nordic variation of Akatosh and only..." (seems to be part of Varieties of Faith)
Bottom section of http://i39.tinypic.com/szvl9u.png:
"everything else. Alduin was the creator(?) of dragon time, (???) - the Firstborn and the..."

It's really hard to make out, and I can't be certain I'm not reading some into it.

» Mon May 07, 2012 9:16 pm

As for the "arcane scribblings", I'm definitely seeing English writing on some of the pages, just in a very stylized font. On the bottom section of http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/1664/arcane02.jpg, I see:
"(something). This person came across the Oghma Infinium, recognized it..."
On http://i40.tinypic.com/23o0fq.png I see:
"Alduin World-Eater: Alduin is the Nordic variation of Akatosh and only..." (seems to be part of Varieties of Faith)
Bottom section of http://i39.tinypic.com/szvl9u.png:
"everything else. Alduin was the creator(?) of dragon time, (???) - the Firstborn and the..."

It's really hard to make out, and I can't be certain I'm not reading some into it.

I'm pretty sure you're correct. In the reddit thread, people tackled the scribblings and determined that part of it is the passage on Alduin from Varieties of Faith and some is the third song (Old Knocker) from http://www.imperial-library.info/content/five-songs-king-wulfharth-shor%E2%80%99s-tongue-lord-solitude.

EDIT: I think you're definitely right on that page detailing the Oghma. I think we've finally found something here which is actually new information. Perhaps this evening I can tackle a more exacting anolysis, but here's some rough translations:

P1: "The current home of Septimus Signus. From the ??? is a ???-looking iceberg that happens to have a ??? it."
P2: "In the center of the iceberg though(?) is a large Dwemer lockbox(?). Septimus has ??? ??? into the iceberg as that ??? the lockbox ??ing ?????"
P3: "The iceberg was created ??? ???? hundred years. This person came across the Oghma Infinium, recognized it as a ??? of evil, and sealed it away in the ?? iceberg ?? so that the world would be safe from its influence."
P4: "It does not need to be a large space, but there should be a spot between Septimus's dining area ??? with the lockbox and the exit where the player can be out of sight--Hermaeus Mora will appear to him there."

I smell design docs!

» Mon May 07, 2012 10:12 pm

How fitting for a prince that is said to be "born of thrown-away ideas".

» Tue May 08, 2012 9:54 am

How fitting for a prince that is said to be "born of thrown-away ideas".

On the contrary, this is a document of the formation of the world, is it not?

» Mon May 07, 2012 8:27 pm

The only thing we've got on it is that it was created "from [Xarxes'] favorite moments in history." Whatever that means.

» Tue May 08, 2012 2:30 am

^ Awesome work! You guys are the best!

I end up being mind-frelled every time I log on here....it's kinda addicting!

» Mon May 07, 2012 7:56 pm

So are the master illusion books just randomized letters? :laugh:

» Tue May 08, 2012 6:37 am

http://www.reddit.com/r/skyrim/comments/nklj2/you_know_those_runes_on_the_lids_of_the_bug_jars

http://www.reddit.com/r/skyrim/comments/nklj2/you_know_those_runes_on_the_lids_of_the_bug_jarshttp://i42.tinypic.com/24cwolj.png I've translated the strange symbols on this pic. It translates to E, R, and P. I believe this refers to three of the holds , Eastmarch, the Rift, and the Pale, respectively. Since it's a transmutation circle this could be the only holds needed for any ritual. If you havnt been following the Reddit post here it is. Sorry it went to the top of the post.

EDIT: Looks like I mis-translated the top stymbol. So not Eastmarch. Is there a hold that starts with an f?

» Tue May 08, 2012 1:18 am

The only thing we've got on it is that it was created "from [Xarxes'] favorite moments in history." Whatever that means.

I believe that the Oghma Infinium was like made from the skin of Oghma. Either she died to make it willingly or Xarxes made it after she died of some other cause.

» Mon May 07, 2012 6:36 pm

I think what not-MK was trying to tell me was that either Xarxes was trying to make an Elder Scroll to rule them all or he made the Infinium out of other Elder Scrolls, thus removing the knowledge from knowability and thus whatever was contained within was well and truly Forbidden Knowledge via reality. This of course assumes a symbiotic relationship between Reality and the records the Scrolls keep.

However, given Hermaeus Mora's fascination with distilling essence of mortality, mortals (essence) probably give it shape and a concrete reality.

» Mon May 07, 2012 6:47 pm

My guess about the Oghma Infinium? It's made of Xarxes favorite parts of history, all of which were made impossible at the dawn (which is why it falls under Herma's domain). So, basically, it's a limited scope Elder Scroll (explaining the font) dedicated entirely to Alt History / Fantasy stories Xarxes particularly enjoyed. Because the book doesn't refer back to the reality in which the reader exists, it's way less dangerous, and easier to read.

I believe that the Oghma Infinium was like made from the skin of Oghma. Either she died to make it willingly or Xarxes made it after she died of some other cause.

She was made of history. I'm pretty sure she was always a book

» Tue May 08, 2012 8:00 am

Editing.

» Tue May 08, 2012 5:54 am

"the iceberg was created around the lockbox by a person unknown cities within the last few hundred years this person demonstrated the encour Oghma Infinium recognized as a treatment in the saddle away from evil and the band for the lockbox iceberg"

Hello. I speak portuguese and maybe I can help with a more accurate translation - there are some missing letters that you probably couldn't translate from the alphabet and it resulted in the strange stuff at the latter part of the sentence.

The portuguese part (with some adaptations to make more sense) would be:

O iceberg foi criado em volta do lockbox por alguma pessoa desconhecida dentro das poucas últimas centenas de anos. Essa pessoa encontrou a Oghma Infinium e o reconheceu como um invento da maldade e selou longe "na banda"(?) o lockbox no iceberg para que o

The english translation would be:

The iceberg was created around the lockbox by an unknown person within the last few hundred years. This person found the Oghma Infinium and recognized it as an invention of evil and sealed the lockbox away "in the band"(?) in the iceberg so the ...

~~This information is useless, lol~~

» Mon May 07, 2012 7:05 pm

I finished my transliteration of the first page of the Oghma Infinium. The top-left section:

No centro deste iceberg entretanto um grande duarze lockbox septim esculpiu uma cvzerna no iceberg para que un la do do lockbox essencialmente

Bottom-Left Section:

O iceberg foi criado em volta do lockbox por alguma pessoa desconhecida dentro da pouca centena ultima de anos esta pessoa encontrou a oghma infinium reconheceu o como um invento da maldade e sel longe na banda lockbox iceberg para que o

Remember that duarze = dwarves.
I just can't for the life of me transliterate the right hand group of characters. Maybe someone else will have better luck.

I kept getting confused by all of the messy hyperlinks scattered everywhere, so I tried to organize them here.

Spoiler

The language is written in ~~"Mage Font"~~an ancient language, only known as "Mage Font" within the game files; a full translation can be found http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/3721/magescript.jpg.
Either the font is used for many languages or the language is just that complicated. Either way, the words written in Mage Font can be English, Portuguese, and whatever else pops up.

This script can be found in numerous places, including the Oghma Infinium.
1. http://images.uesp.net/b/bb/SR-book-Oghma_Infinium_1.png
2. http://images.uesp.net/2/2c/SR-book-Oghma_Infinium_2.png
The first page has been partially transliterated (turned into Roman characters but not yet translated).
1. http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/5991/oghma1.jpg

Pictures courtesy of rpeh of UESPWiki, transliteration courtesy of Lady Nerevar.

Also, on the PC version, there are 7 "arcane scribblings" (that's what they're actually called) can be found within the games files. It is within the texture archive under textures\interface\books. These files are here:
1. http://i40.tinypic.com/23o0fq.png
2. http://i41.tinypic.com/35aw5fq.png
3. http://i40.tinypic.com/2lwnmvr.png
4. http://i41.tinypic.com/ibdpn9.png
5. http://i43.tinypic.com/23wryns.png
6. http://i42.tinypic.com/24cwolj.png
7. http://i39.tinypic.com/szvl9u.png
Some of the pages have been transliterated.
1. http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/649/arcane00.jpg
3. http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/1664/arcane02.jpg
6. http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/3230/arcane05.jpg
7. http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/6870/arcane06.jpg

Links are courtesy of http://www.reddit.com/r/skyrim/comments/nklj2/you_know_those_runes_on_the_lids_of_the_bug_jars/c3bcrsa?context=3 and transliterations are courtesy of Lady Nerevar.

It has recently been brought up that the Eye of Magnus may be of some significance. Whether it is or not, here are some links to images of the floating Eye.

1. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/38870366/Eye%20of%20Magnus_1.jpg
2. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/38870366/Eye%20of%20Magnus_2.jpg
3. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/38870366/Eye%20of%20Magnus_3.jpg
4. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/38870366/Eye%20of%20Magnus_4.jpg
5. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/38870366/Eye%20of%20Magnus_5.jpg
6. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/38870366/Eye%20of%20Magnus_6.jpg
7. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/38870366/Eye%20of%20Magnus_7.jpg
8. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/38870366/Eye%20of%20Magnus_8.jpg

Links are courtesy of Frigida of this http://www.reddit.com/r/skyrim/comments/nklj2/you_know_those_runes_on_the_lids_of_the_bug_jars/c3ckna8.

» Tue May 08, 2012 6:14 am

I just wanted to say that I am absolutely floored at how awesome and observant you guys are. I put like 400 hours into morrowind when it came out and have since dumped day after day in oblivion and skyrim and reading this post left me stunned at just how much i'd been missing this whole time.

Also has anyone tried translating the writing on the eye of magnus?? It looks to be in the same mage font as the papers.

If anyone is interested here is the link to a post on reddit (courtesy of Frigida) that has closeup pics of the eye of magus

http://www.reddit.com/r/skyrim/comments/nklj2/you_know_those_runes_on_the_lids_of_the_bug_jars/c3ckna8

» Mon May 07, 2012 11:48 pm

snip

Mage font? Personally, I have never heard of it. What is its orgins? Other than mages, of course :teehee:

» Tue May 08, 2012 3:41 am

Also has anyone tried translating the writing on the eye of magnus?? It looks to be in the same mage font as the papers.

I looked at that carefully, and while there are some similarities I'm relatively sure it does not match any character set I'm aware of, mage script, text on the elder scroll, anything.

» Tue May 08, 2012 9:14 am

Mage font? Personally, I have never heard of it. What is its orgins? Other than mages, of course :teehee:

Fine, be that way. I "fixed" it. I also added the links to the Eye of Magnus.

As for the eye itself... huh. I can't decide if it's an existing language, a new one, or just decoration. There are many recurring glyphs. However, this may be because many of the pieces are duplicated. Just look at this http://i.imgur.com/6HxcK.jpg of Pic 6. It's pretty clear that they are repeating the tiles.

This could be a stylized version of Magescript. It is definitely not Draconic, Dwemer, or Ayleid. Also, the glyphs don't seem to match the Elder Scroll. Honestly, I think that the glyphs are just decoration.

For reference: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dragon_Alphabet http://i.imgur.com/ak7gf.png http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dwemer_Alphabet http://images.uesp.net/d/d2/Elder_Scroll.jpg

» Mon May 07, 2012 11:32 pm

Hmm. Interestingly, the Master Illusion gibberish text doesn't contain any of the letters J, Q, X, or Z. If it was randomly generated text or just plain keyboard mashing, there would be no reason to exclude these letters. UESP doesn't have matching symbols for J, X, or Z in the Dwemer alphabet, but their table is outdated and hasn't been updated to the full Dwemer alphabet, so that theory's a bust.

It's probably just gibberish. Unless of course it's an extremely deep cipher in which the key to decipher it is one of the previous pieces of gibberish that we thought was useless. :ooo:

... nah, that's probably not true either.

» Tue May 08, 2012 5:31 am

Fine, be that way. I "fixed" it. I also added the links to the Eye of Magnus.

What the...? I was being serious! I do not know much about lore on mages and havent done the College MQ in Skyrim. That is why I asked what its orgin was and where the name came from.

I did not in any way mean to sound like an ass. It was just a serious question, that was all.

» Mon May 07, 2012 11:30 pm

Fine, be that way. I "fixed" it. I also added the links to the Eye of Magnus. As for the eye itself... huh. I can't decide if it's an existing language, a new one, or just decoration. There are many recurring glyphs. However, this may be because many of the pieces are duplicated. Just look at this http://i.imgur.com/6HxcK.jpg of Pic 6. It's pretty clear that they are repeating the tiles. This could be a stylized version of Magescript. It is definitely not Draconic, Dwemer, or Ayleid. Also, the glyphs don't seem to match the Elder Scroll. Honestly, I think that the glyphs are just decoration. For reference: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dragon_Alphabet http://i.imgur.com/ak7gf.png http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dwemer_Alphabet http://images.uesp.net/d/d2/Elder_Scroll.jpg

Oh, and don't you forget about Akaviri script: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Messenger%27s_Diary

» Tue May 08, 2012 9:34 am

What the...? I was being serious! I do not know much about lore on mages and havent done the College MQ in Skyrim. That is why I asked what its orgin was and where the name came from.

I did not in any way mean to sound like an ass. It was just a serious question, that was all.

Okay, sorry about that. All I know is that is the title within the game files. I am absolutely clueless about it, other than it was used to write ancient arcane texts.

Oh, and don't you forget about Akaviri script: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Messenger%27s_Diary

Wow, I didn't even think of the Akaviri. The language does look very similar to the glyphs on the Eye of Magnus.

However, if it is in Akaviri, we have no chance at all to translate it. Compare the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Messenger%27s_Diary to the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Akaviri_Diary_Translation. I see no tangible connection between the two. In other words, I have no idea how in the word the writing works.