Dagon and the other Princes may know Chim (sermon 12), but they do not know how to reach apotheosis. They can't concieve a plot beyond what their realms have limited them to, so that Dagon would teach us a possible path to heaven is laughable.

To begin, I'll say I see no evidence suggesting that all the Princes know of CHIM. At least not from Sermon 12, so that reference confuses me.

And once again, I thought Paradise fell for the simple fact that Mankar was killed; from my perspective, Mankar succeeded very well at what Mysterium Xarxes details. But once again, I'm kinda Oblivion ignorant. Do you know about http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/nu-hatta_nu-mantia.shtml? Past discussions have lead me to believe that Paradise had a similar topography.

I think it'd be more correct to say that they know of CHIM.

Maybe the xarxes could be the equivelant of a Nuclear warhead if you read it improperly without measures to protect yourself? so the entire area of Bruma could end up like Chernobyl after the nuclear meltdown at that plant.....

he is the daedric lord of destruction after all, I wonder if hes related to Baal those two would get along so well...

Its calamitous if you were to base your worldview on its text, but the book itself never reigned ungodly judgement down upon anyone I've heard of.

Mehrunes Dagon was a baal.

Luager2- That they know of Chim is what I meant, but I didn't say that, so thanks.

946000- Chim is something a Daedra knows of, yes. When confronted by it at Vivec's trial, Azura reacts rather distastefully. If Bal knows of it, then the others know as well, because they are all equals, each a Prince. The Xarxes was a false account, penned by Dagon, who did not take part in creation, so he can't know how to take Mundus on its Endeavor.

Didn't say they didn't. I said that Sermon 12 wasn't a sufficient source proving all Daedra know of CHIM. The Trial is a better one, however.

And how can you know what CHIM is but not know how to go about it? To me that's kinda oxymoronic: that's almost like knowing that 5+5=10, but not knowing what a plus sign is. To quote Vivec, "none [of the Princes] held [the Tower] in...high esteem" when they saw it, which is an important idea regarding the state/process of CHIM.

I also thought the Mysterium Xarxes was a guide to bind oneself to Dagon's realm, not necessarily in getting/going through CHIM (specifically) or general apotheosis. If the former is true (which I currently think it is), then I say Mankar succeeded and the Mysterium Xarxes is quite true.

And, just for the hey of it, you can read http://www.imperial-library.info/fsg/kikaiarticle1.shtml if you want.

While there is some manipulation of truth and a lot of empty promises, the Path of Dawn that Camoran was advocating may refer to Chim, but I think its concerned mostly with restoring things to the way they were during the Dawn Era.