The name was, as Todd said, redundant. The school itself and the spells it contained were useful.

This. I don't care about the names of the school as long as the spells are there.

Mysticism wasn't useless for the most part, however it was just a massive disjointed dumping ground for spells Bethesda didn't want to stick in other schools. Skyrim is rectifying that by simply moving its spells to other schools that fit better.

Ok, that's a very valid point. How about this to make it easier to level in:
Light - if mysticism is the most basic of schools, the first thing you ever do as an aspiring mage is to create a light in your hand. However, it is also light that others can see so any chameleon effects would be canceled. It doesn't belong in Illusion at all. Darkness could also be usable in same school (if AI had proper vision simulation) combined with night eye.
Restore Magicka - Since mysticism deals with the fabric of magic, I think this one belongs more here than in Restoration. Doesn't really matter though since it's not a spell effect, it's just for the tables.

Look at destruction. Huge list that nobody complains about, for some reason If Earth and Wind (elemental'ish forces) exists as Dragonshouts, they belong in Destruction. But I think Damage/Drain Magicka belongs in Mysticism (for manipulating fabric of magic itself) and Health/Fatigue/Attribute (even Night Eye) in Restoration (body magic). *IF* more elemental magic goes into the game, I think it's fair to move some of the non elemental ones out of Destruction. Personally destruction is the weirdest named school, it should really have been elementals only from the start. It's disintegrate to alteration and weakness to mysticism, since elementals can have a much bigger impact than what it currently do.

One can go on and on rearranging. But for keeping it simple, moving Light into mysticism as a starting spell sounds reasonable to me.



Ok, so generalizing all magic into a single skill called magic and no schools at all is ok by you. That is fine too. It doesn't help specializing your character though into what he can and can't do (well).

I have a problem, I am a spell buying junkie...

all spells and even the unused ones that never use.

Mystiscm, I couldn't tell you what was in each of them outside of Soul Trap, which would of been the only spell I'd use out of that school......

impartial

Depending on your character and the way you play the game, you might only use one or two of those spells.

However, chances were that you'd use at least one of those spells A LOT. And it would svck that it would be such a low level.

Putting them in other schools with spells that you use more often means you will be able to use the spells that are important to you at higher levels without practicing a ton of skills you don't use. I'm very happy with this decision, and I don't think I am ever the person who wants a game to be less deep or complicated.

But I am a fan of good game design. Redistributing the spells from mysticism is simply the best, most pragmatic solution for more players of the game.

I like Mysticism.

* Detect Life

* Soul Trap

* Dispel

* Spell Absorption

* Reflect Damage

* Telekinesis

* Reflect Spell

All of this are VERY useful, and can turn the tide in a hard fight.

It wasn't useless, it was filler. You just don't see many people enthusiastic about Mysticism to the point of specializing in it. You see people specializing in blade, in destruction, in stealth, in restoration, but not mysticism. It was just a skill that spell casters picked up along the way because it fit, not because it was particularly noteworthy. What the game is doing is making each skill more important and unique, while those filler skills are being merged with more noteworthy skills.

Where are you getting this from because there is no such spell. If your referring to mark and recall then I'll dispute that momentarily.


Dispel - Easily moved to Restoration - it's a curing type spell

Lets see what the Oblivion manual has to say:
"Restoration heals, restores and fortifies the body's attributes and abilities, cures diseases and protects it from other malign influences."
According to your above statement Cure and Restore spells are not Restoration because they don't restore any thing beyond a normal state. Try again.

Soul Trap - Moved directly to Enchanting skill though could possibly be put with Conjuration as well.

Seeing as how soul trapping is essential to enchanting this is really not debatable.

Telekinesis - Is clearly Alteration which is the manipulation of the physical world

Lets see what the Oblivion manual has to say:
"Alteration involves manipulation of the physical world and it's natural properties."
Yep that is what telekinesis is and teleportation too for that matter. The moving of objects or beings short or far.

Detect Life - Easily an Illusion spell because just like night eye it is and altered perception

Lets see what the Oblivion manual has to say:
"Illusion affects the perception and mind of living subjects."
Detect life alters your perception be able to see life

Spell Absorption - Another easily moved to Restoration because it's very similar to Absorb

But since absorb IS in restoration then that is the best place for it.

Reflect - I'd say Alteration seeing as it's really just another type of shield and all of the shield spells are in this school.

Wrong, Fire, Lightning and Frost shields are also Alteration spells. Elements are considered to be forces of the physical world and regardless of their origin(natural or magical) Alteration can manipulate them to the point of nullifying their effects or out right reflecting them back at the source.

Because you need several of them to make them convenient enough to use. The most potent versions are typically found within high powered items; detect (I'd like life and nonlife to be separate though), reflect (hard to "cast", but obviously very potent), and absorb (very useful for stunted characters and obviously in MW, as the magicka regen system makes it a bit redundant imho). Dispel was made slightly useless since at high levels and/or high difficulty it doesn't work well enough or your foes often carries enchantments. Unfortunately the game is a bit unplayable at highest difficulty without good reflect capabilities. Any hit will just scratch them (incl poisons), and most of their destructive powers are insta kills.

@worm82075:
Please don't "I'm right and you're wrong". I just showed how any spell can be made fit into any school by changing it's description. There is no right or wrong here, it's just manipulating the descriptions so we can have the most balanced tables possible. Was mysticism unbalanced (in an unfavorable way)? Yes. Did it have to be? No. Fix it by moving spells *into* mysticism rather than out of it, and let us have mysticism the important school it deserves to be.

Yeah, this poll is hell unbiased. No need for an explanation of your choice if you want it in and think it's useful.

Ehh. Not really. They wouldn't have gotten rid of it if they didn't think they could move all the spells. There was a topic a while back about people wanting to get rid of Restoration. I went through every school of magic and showed that it would be illogical to remove any of the skills... except Mysticism. I placed each spell effect in a different school and it seemed fairly logical.

Also, your logic doesn't hold. If a straight-A student doesn't get into an all girls school because he doesn't fit in, does that mean he belongs at a different university, or does that just mean that he doesn't fit in?

Edit: Dispel goes well in Restoration, or works in Alteration.

@ksimp88: I'd like to see you use detect life, soul trap, dispel, and telekinesis to win a hard fight. You did say ALL of them could help you win it.
@Hoblak: Are you suggesting that Disintegrate Weapon should be moved out of Destruction? Please tell me you're having a bad day and taking it out by trolling forums because I actually can't find a better example of Destruction. Heck, it's synonym for "Destroy Weapon", how can you get any more to the core than that?

Actually, teleportation either invokes a Deity or moves the caster through oblivion on his own will.
It is clearly mystisicm and has nothing to do with alteration.

Your other arguments are equally easily disproven.


Also, what is this obsession with oblivion. As if its the only TES game.
Lore does not start or finish with the oblivion game manual and since the discussion is about the validity of mysticism, I believe lore should weigh more heavily than gameplay.

As long as all the spells are still in, I'm be happy.

I said nothing of teleportation being moved to Restoration nor of Destruction being Alteration.

Your complete incomprehension of my post and your inability to counter with anything remotely relevant leaves your post rather invalid. Try again please.

Even though Mysticism was the Protist Kingdom of Magic, it was still a Kingdom. Can we get rid of that kingdom and just add them to others? Nay!

Well, that made me more than giggle

I had misread and have already edited my post.

Thank you for your hostility where I have only shown courtesy.

Please read my post on the first page, it may enlighten you as to the nature of mysticism, and why if handled correctly the current heading might actually be a good thing.

Bethesda created the lore and they can change it, in fact they did change it and I'm just illustrating how the spells from mysticism were most likely dispersed and the reasoning behind doing so. Regardless of the validity of the skill it is gone so i suggest you get used to it.

Mysticism is an interesting skill. Its both useless and yet incredibly important if your using an Atronarch build. It doesn't matter to me if Mysticism is in Skyrim as I don't really use it even if I'm playing as a Breton mage. Detect Life is the only Mysticism spell that I really use and it's not a major skill to use as I could just toughen it out and just anticipate when the enemy will appear. Most of the Spells will be transfered to Alteration, Illusion, and possibly Destruction so it's not a big loss.

I already have, I came up with a lore consistent explanation. Wich you would know if you had followed my advice and read my first post.
Many arguments can be made as to why a certain spell could be in that school, instead of this one.
But consistency is paramount here. We cannot simply change certain key features and end up in the same universe where these stories are being told, without at least some stab as to explain the changes from an elder scrolls point of view, not a real life one. Otherwise we would be in slightly different TES universes each time. And I do hold that an alternate universe is such a poor retcon mechanic.

In oblivion the levitation act was used as to explain the absence of it, while the real life reason was city cells. The leviation act makes sense as seen from inside Tamriel. Us outside, looking in, know the mundane reason.

So the mundane reason for mysticism being removed may well have been that it is (intentionally made) redundant. (TES 3 and 2 had much more going for them in mystisicm, 4 did it poorly.)

But from a storytelling point of view a narratively plausible reason is needed, one that is consistent with lore.
Luckily I have provided just such an explanation on the first page.

i think mysticism should return, because 1 theres a book about it, and 2 its talked about to be the most difficult school of magic to learn and 3 how do you just snuff out mysticism, i mean its always been there, even though they just merged it into different schools, mysticism is a powerful school in its own right, and just to be able to say im a master of mysticism, seems impressive, not just alteration and conjuration, which its getting merged into cause those 2 schools are the only ones that you could pawn it off to, example, necromancy is considered mysticism, because transferring souls into inanimate body, now it should be classified as conjuration, i guess because you can say im conjuring this soul into that body thus creating a zombie, now becomes conjuration instead of mysticism, it works but i still think mysticism is more impressive, and what about mark and recall? those are mysticism, and if they are in the game, they could be merged into conjuration, cause in a sense you are conjuring yourself, but again seems to fit mysticism more appropriately, however still fits. and telekinesis was mysticism, and will now likely be merged into alteration, which i dont agree with cause, alteration alters matter, size, weight, ect. to move a object without altering it is energy, the kind thats involved in mysticism, the manipulation of energy. but i have faith in bethesda, and know even the the magic system has changed it will still be impressive although things have been shifted around.

As long as all of the spells are there, then I'm pretty impartial to it. I don't care what it's labeled, I need mah soultrap!!

i had a cool idea for 2 spells one damage health 100 area effect 50 feet + soultrap, that would be cool weaken say ten foes that are trying to kill you then cast that spell, and then area effect reanimate, oh man that would be so sweet

Except it would be absolutely impossible to cast. Do you know how much magicka it costs for even a simple damage health spell?