No, they would definitely have a purpose, just becasue you cant think of anything they would do, doesnt mean we cant.


So what? You say a lot of fallacious things. Like the time you said TES and LOTR were the same thing. I think its funny that you have to selectively quote to try and prove fallacious arguments.


Again, it comes down to people that want more VS. people that want less, or dont care what they get.

вода камень точит, one more grain of sand in the hourglass of Akatosh when Nirn will sunk into Oblivion.

Talk about fallacious statements. I said no such thing. You sure do like your slander. Quote me, I dare you.


It's ok, I wouldn't expect you to consider all the advancements they've made anyway. All you're concerned about is enforcing lore at the cost of practicality and gameplay. Like who honestly gives a rat's ass about 'the old way'? I can't ever take you seriously.

Actually Unarmored skill skill has sense exactly right now when acrobatic was gone, Unarmored can return in new power as providing dodge perks and even be combined with athletics which by perks reduce usage of fatigue for running and jumping as well increase jump height and reduce falling damage, Unarmored fit to new system where all skill need usage not just grinding like in vision of Todd, taken damage without armor or successfully avoid strikes will increase Unarmored, if it will become combined with Hand to Hand it can transform into Martial Arts skill also.

About horses since you cannot imagine more better way of ridding there can be checks for forced dismount and longer gallop time for horses even mounted combat can depend on it, but devs avoid such features it will not be done most likely.

LOL, what are you rambling about now? Try ing to put more words in my mouth? Here's the qoute http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1180907-no-acrobaticsathletics-i-am-profoundly-saddened/page__st__200__p__17503869__hl__middle+earth__fromsearch__1#entry17503869 Its on page 7 or 8, its locked so I cant directly link it. you did a little editing after being proven wrong, but its still there. I care about the old way", becasue I care about the lore. Probably becasue I know it, unlike you.

Perk trees. Branches. 3 of them for every skill. 18x3= 54 skills. Possibility to master in one branch with 100 skill points.

Things've changed.

Wait, is this all from Mysticism, a label, being removed?

May I remind you that this is a video game? If you want to follow lore exactly, then Tamriel should be this extremely huge continent. Obviously it's not, and cannot, be done because we are limited by the factor that it's a video game and you have to take in gameplay into account. I'm tired of you labeling casual gamers as "newbs", I don't know where you get this false logic from. People can be casual over a game and still play since Arena. That doesn't make them a "newb" at all.

Now let's get back on topic shall we? Knowing you, you'll just fight back, never taking other people's opinions into consideration. Or I could be suprised.

Anyways, Mysticism was a great magic school, and the spells will still be there. So I'm happy

After what Oblivion did to Mysticism, I really don't care that its gone. Removing Absorb effects from Mysticism totally neutered its real power.

What opinion? How did mysticism ruin anything? Removing it for no reason is pointless. Sounds like people want to argue with me for the fun of it LOL. I know the lore, I base my RPs on the lore. Its fun, its the world of Nirn, its how I play. If you play another way then ah salute, but I play this way. I advocate all play styles. I advocate depth and variety, I advocate more, not less.

Unfortunately, now we probably have to take on two or more skills to master those same spells that we once could master through only one skill. The more skills we take on, the slower our progression. The extra cost isn't bad if you want to employ those other skills anyway, but if you don't ...?

On http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2011/01/24/skyrim-building-better-combat.aspx?PostPageIndex=2, Todd Howard is quoted saying, "It always felt like the magical school of mysticism – isn't that redundant?” What Bethesda seems to be overlooking is that other schools of magic dealt with affecting thought and matter, whereas Mysticism alone dealt with pure magic and souls. You could dispel magic, reflect magic, and absorb magic. You could trap souls, and detect life. You could create a magical force to lift and move things. So, mysticism studies pure magic and magic's effect on magic. What's redundant about that? Mysticism probably wasn't dropped because of the name. It was more likely dropped partly so that Bethesda could keep their numbers evenly balanced -- six stealth skills, six combat skills, and six magic skills -- and partly so that they could have a manageable quantity of perks to develop.

What's wrong with using all of the Mysticism spells (That are confirmed to be in) in another skill tree, like Alteration? You can still call yourself a "Mystic wizard" for lore sakes, that's up to your imagination.

And no, I don't like to argue with you for fun, it gets tiring after so many arguements. I respect your opinion, I'm just asking you to look at it from another viewpoint, which I never see you do.

Because its no longer Mysticism. Plus they've been spread out over more than one skill. I see things from all viewpoints. Other people though (Im not saying you), not so much.

Good points, but I think there was also another reason for them dropping it; its difficult to think of new spell effects for such a difficult to define tree. The few that I could ever really think of definitely fit, but they always have very specific uses. Permanency would make one's circles of magic permanent, so you could make permanent recall circles, or circles of fire to catch intruders, or what have you. I've thought long about mysticism, and could never really come up with any spell effects beyond that one. Its such an odd skill, and while I disagree with Todd that it didn't have a point (as you pointed it, Mysticism was unique in being the only magic school that dealt with magic ITSELF), I do see their point that mysticism was difficult to work with.

I would have loved if they would have expanded in it, and while I am disappointed they opted to once again remove skills, I am not angry because I understand the reasons why they did what they did.

I see what you did there. The ole "blame a person for everything I'm doing" trick, eh? This is the entire conversation abot LotR:



For some reason you thought I was suggesting TES and LotR we exactly the same in every way shape and form when I merely gave an example that pertained to our discussion. I even corrected you in the next post...




That was like... some physic [censored] right there.

After that, you went on to rant about some irrelevant B.S. about how elves are different. http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1180907-no-acrobaticsathletics-i-am-profoundly-saddened/page__st__120. You can see that mostly every edit was made before you replied to my posts. None were changed. Stop lying.

Well, what Todd said was true, Mysticism was redundant in Oblivion, it barely counted as it's own skill. Todd addressed this by taking those spells and putting them into the other skills, thus opening up another slot for a magic skill (I.e. Enchanting.)

I mean come on, Alteration and Mysticism were pretty damn similar in OB.

They could bring back older Mysticism sells from the previous games, they could also add in Mysticism spells from the actual lore, like the ability to change the weather, which was in SI in a way.

Mysticism was not redundant. It wasn't destruction, so I guess people think its useless :rolleyes:. Mysticism was great. The only reason it got cut was because they wanted to cut skills and Magic had to lose somthing. Really they didnt even need to cut skills, just rework some of them.

Dammit, I double posted.


You say I want nothing to change. Thats an outright lie.

Of course, the only reason it barely counted as its own skill was they decided that absorb spells should be in restoration (Which was TOTAL crap, by the way. Way to make restoration a god skill).

Its kind of like how they dealt with spears. "No one liked them so we got rid of them." Of course, they fail to mention that no one liked them because they svcked, and they svcked because they had low damage and like...2 artifacts that paled in comparison to the other artifacts in the game, and, of course, that this was Bethesda's own fault.

Thus, Mysticism follows the same issues. It was a non-skill in Oblivion because BETHESDA removed effects from it. It was an ill-defined skill in the series because BETHESDA failed to define it (And yet several fans HAVE defined it in a unique and interesting manner).

But like I already said. That's okay. They had legitimate reasons for removing it. I'm disappointed that Skyrim has less skills than Oblivion, but I can just hope that those skills have more quality and interesting aspects to them than entire previous skill sets. I can also hope that the next TES game adds more skills, rather than removes them. I couldn't image only 15 skills in the next game. THAT would be something worth getting angry about.

I think the devs dropped it because they didn't spend the time thinking how useful to lore and quests it could be - I really enjoyed the concept that Mysticism could be the ability to use the elements of used spells - that made sense to me with spells like Spell Absorption - yet the lore stated that few mages had the patience to spend the time learning Mysticism so from a lore perspective it makes sense that with the demise of the Septims and unrest in the empire more interest is put into the more predictable schools of magic.

It's not the fact that it isn't Destruction, it's the fact that Mysticism was so similar to Alteration, another non-Destruction skill.

I meant that since Mysticism worked in different ways, didnt really have offensive spells, people thought it was pointless, but it wasn't. Just a small foray into any ES with Mysticism, or into the lore will show you that its not redundant/pointless/dumb etc. So again, there was no reason to get rid of it. They should of added, before they just cut. Also like Orzorn said, Absorb not being in Mysticism, in OB was rather lame. It was still an effective skill though.

HAHAHA! You are sooo predictable! I said...


So actually, you just lied. Congrats.

Thats not the qoute Im refering to.

Absorb in Morrowind makes Mysticism my favorite skill and also, I believe, the best magic skill in Morrowind. Reflect, dispel, mark/recall, soultrap, and absorb. That is pretty much all you need to effectively play the game as a mage. No creature has resistances to absorb, so you don't have to work about that, dispel lets you survive nasty magical encounters, and mark and recall are the bread and butter of any mage worth his or her salt. The rest is just icing on the cake.

Lore-wise, I don't believe alteration fits mysticism's position at all. Alteration is dealing with changing and morphing the world around you. Mysticism was changing and altering MAGIC ITSELF. I suppose, if they wanted to change that, they could have some new books that mention how mages realize mysticism and alteration had similarities, so their colleges were combined, in addition to some of their teaching curriculum, such that students of alteration could now easily learn mysticism spells, effectively removing mysticism as a distinct school.

Quote me then bro because I never said that.