What exactly was their motivation for following the "Dagonite road?" Were they disgusted with the Nine Divines religion?

They wanted to leave all earthly posesions behind and go to a perrfect place. In other words, they were suisidle pricks that wanted to die.

pretty much.
they just followed mankar camoran because he promised to take them to 'paradise' and while they're at it they can go crazy and kill people for dagon

Suicide pricks? C'mon atleast try to understand the motivations of so called evils. They're still human beings.

Amongst other things, Mankar promised immortality. His followers were no longer afraid of death because they would enter paradise and from there return to the mortal world once the Mythic Dawn had risen. At which point they would rule over Tamriel.

I also assuming that the certainty that comes knowing learning the Truth about the world and the universe draws many people in. Allot of religions have this because it comforts people to no longer have to doubt or qeustion.

I'm sure there is more but those two seem to be the most important aspects.

Give birth to yourself and become a new man, not your present boomerang shell that is defined by the arbitrary oppression of a thousand dead gods and the rude structures of mortals.

So basically invective against the Nine Divines?

Freeing yourself by destroying all those who have not yet discovered that they must free themselves. That is the path of the Mythic Dawn.

Quite selfish, really. Par for the course for following a Daedric Prince.

And comically, the Dagonites are indeed still fearful of death, even after being killed and resurrected many times in the Paradise. I entertain myself by hewing them in two repeatedly when I go to that realm. Dang, I love the Deadly Reflex mod... :chaos:

Nah. Just providing a higher form of existence. Don't think it's specifically aimed against the Nine Divines in the "The divines are boring, Daedra fun" way.

You do start allot of posts with "So" btw.



Don't blame them. If you're expecting immortality and all you get is endless suffering for it. Death might be gone but the dying isn't.

But they weren't realizing that they come back, and that the suffering is temporary. That's what the daedra were trying to teach them by repeatedly hunting and killing them. The suffering is only endless because they refused to learn.

Thats mortals for you, tell them they can't have something unless they let go and they'll find a way to get it anyway. So they caught the Xalivia and ended their suffering the easy way.

And then I came along, banished the xiv, and offed the two cowering mortals.

Whow... that sounds a bit like Camoran's speech... I winnowed the weak, cast down the timid, and made the mighty (the xiv)....hmm... he didn't beg, but I did fell him too though...

And a Hero, they do exactly that which will offend everybody involved.

Yes, but not gratuitously. The Dawn - or Camoran at least, for I assume every cult has its impious sycophants - rebelled against the way the world had been created. You might say that they opposed the whole notion of 'the world' as created by the gods "who would know no other planets", and who subsequently portrayed their creation as a benign act. Forsaking those tyrants, they instead turned to the 'jailor king''s twin brother who, as we all know, has advocated freedom since the beginning of time.

Like tearing of a band aid.

Oddly enough, those are fairly basic Altmer religious beliefs, aren't they? The creation of Nirn was a mistake; ideally all would return to its state of unity prior to creation. In that sense the Mythic Dawn is the logical conclusion of an idea we'd always known about.

That's the thing, only "The Chosen" get to. The rest get winnowed if they're weak, cast down if they're timid, and forced to beg for mercy at The Chosens' feet if they're mighty. Salvation for yourself by destruction of all else. Selfish, and destructive. Fitting of Daedra in general for the former, and Dagon in particular for the latter.

That's a very mannish and mortal point of view. The Aldmer saw it for what it was, the weak and fallen arguing for their own survival, endangering the strength and purity of the greater good.





There never was much of a difference.

Yes, but Mankar is one of few who actually put them into practice. It's like refusing to admit that Taiwan and Israel exist, when all your friends just oppose their sovereignty.

I don't know what exactly called that example to mind.

I agree with the in-game character Gwinas. Mankar's views are quite revolutionary in that he actually is saying what is in the hearts of most traditionalist elves. I think the Mythic Dawn had a good idea. Now, in practice, however, we can see that it is not. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Not very. Though the traditional Aldmer believe the creation of Mundus to be a great injustice, the undoing of that mistake takes very different forms between the Aldmer and revolutionaries such as Camoran. The Mer simply seek to again attain that state of divinity which they believe they once possessed, chosing Auriel/Akatosh/whoever as their example. The dagonites -and I believe the term to be in its place here-, however, forsake all such notions as divinity, escaping Mundus, etc. In Camoran's case, it was supposedly the petty creating spirits who imposed these concepts upon the world since they would not suffer or feared other worlds that might rival their own creation. Instead, they strive towards the much bigger goal of escaping the strictures of the aedric creation - and, again, in Camoran's case, making their own - and find the manner of the elves cowardly and wrongheaded (nearly from the start).

These are not the same beliefs that the traditional Aldmer espouse. Rather, they correspond more to the doctrines of those that broke away from them due to the very clash of perspective explained above, viz. the Chimer and also, in their own particular way, the Dwemer.

Good point. It does sound like a velothian concept.

I'm afraid that still sounds very Altmer to me. The Altmer believe, do they not, that the creation of the world at Lorkhan's behest represents a fundamental reduction in the nature of being and is the cause of all suffering. A return to that state of divinity, which by its very nature must involve the removal of material bonds and limitations (and so in its fullest extent the destruction of the world), is thus desirable. The Altmer ideal does, indeed must, involve the very breaking of the bonds of Aedric creation that you say Camoran espouses. Indeed, Camoran explicitly defines his goal as 'The Mythic Age reborn' in Carac Agaialor, and as a return to the Mythic Age is the ultimate goal of Altmer religious devotion, it seems to me that there's great continuity there. Camoran is a radical in that he sees Dagon, and the Daedra in general, as tools to be used to achieve this return by force, but that seems to be about it.

The Dawnies believe that Nirn is a Daedric plane absent its Prince, Lorkhan, who was undone by his very subordinates. This runs completely against the Altmeri beleif that Lorkhan is the one to blame for their "predicament". They aim to claim Nirn for Dagon, who claims to be Lorkhan's buddy.

The Altmer Love Auri-el and his bunch. Camoran hates them.

Indeed they do.

This, however, they do not. Firstly, you will see that the elves do not blame the Aedra for creating said mortal limitations, but rather the spirit of limitations, Lorkhan, who tricked the gods into creating a mortal world and in doing so imprisoned them and their descendants within. Auriel, culture hero of the elves, then punished Lorkhan for this act and showed his children how to escape the mortal realm. The elves ever since have tried to reenact Auriel's ascension, attempting to reclaim the divinity they once had.

Camoran, however, along with all other subgradientists - if you will grant me the neologism -, sides more with Lorkhan himself than with his enemies. I say enemies, because it immediately makes clear exactly why Mankar wages war against the imperial pantheon. It is a pantheon that, at heart, is very similar to that of the elves, save those few moments when its missing ninth deity rears its head. The schism of (imperialized) men and (traditionalist) mer is therefore in many ways that of Camoran and the elves. The mer fear men, because they know that every so often, they bring forth kings and queens that see through all of it and do things that are in intent not so very different from what Mankar attempted. Mer consider the doctrine of people like Camoran and -according to Camoran: not cowardly/straying- men to be an outright blasphemy.

To make a long story short, Lorkhan sought to achieve something entirely different, namely to jump far beyond all notions of divinity, mortality, ascension... ('subgradientists) and to grant each and everyone the ability to create worlds like he attempted (Camoran), but failed to do. Camoran & co. are the ones who are trying to do it 'right', whereas the elves consider such plans blasphemous.

Essentially, Anuics like Elves want to return to what they once were, while Padomaics want to become what they might be.