Yeah,probably most npc will just wander aimlessy looking for an activator or some piece of furniture to abuse without contempleting the possibility of vertical movement.But followers will have to follow you to the top.

It's the fumes rising out of the ground. I suspect there's some vault experiment that pumped drugs into the air to make the inhabitants unable to find their way around, so they became utterly reliant on the vault computer system to guide and advise them. But the vault fractured, and leakage occurred.

The player character isn't completely immune to the effect, but has a handy PipBoy map

i like it, actually.

kind of reminds me of playing Qixx (or Stixx, or whatever other names that thing was known under

i just wish there was an option to toggle textures (so you could toggle landscapes and objects to some solid color instead of textures), it sometimes gets darn hard to make out which way the ground slopes

What really worries me is resources.From what I understand there will be some predefined areas that we can strip bare of resources that we can use to build.But what if we are limited by the quantity of resources present in the specific area and can only build so much in one place before our stock runs out?

weeeeeeeeeell now you mention activators...

there were some pretty mysterious objects in skyrim's ck, like dwemer secret stairs:

you'd, following how it was done in vanilla uses, just navmesh to their tops and bottoms. npc's still could walk the stairs on their insides though, and that certainly wasn't just an animation taking over, but free movement (and i could reproduce this in my own setup like that without any problems) - so there apparently seems to be stg like a built in navmesh technology ALREADY, actually

Yeah,sometimes the opaque navmesh just disappears underground and if you toggle the transparent one you can hardly see it.

To answer your post about stairs I remember someone on the nexus forums mentioning that some objects had some kind of built in Navmesh.

Oh no.

On some level, I will be disappointed if I don't go looking for a missing follower only to find that they've pathed themselves into a corner they are desperately trying to run themselves through.

Much in the same manner small cliffs cause New Vegas Followers to flip their lids.

i got the impression in skyrim already that npc's under certain conditions (like in combat) don't seem to be dependent of navmesh anyway, judging from where i had them come after me

there's also an off chance i'm just under a false impression there though.

you'll have to take the scavenger shuttle bus to the next city then i guess

(since you can get resources from stuff like bottles etc though, and many of these respawn, i guess that'll be covered)

yep, that was me in the post right above yours ,-)

Note that the video also shows barricades directing the raiders into an kill zone. You also have firing position who was also put down in the middle of the road. Decent chance the nav-mesh system is far more dynamic now. Lots of things was pretty easy to do in Skyrim but not implemented as because of previous gen console limitations.

You might be.i had a test cell once full of Rieklings (For scientific reasons of course).And since there was 0 navmesh in place they just stood there looking mad at me in game.

But i do believe that npcs might be able to perform some trickery during combat (like moving from one navmesh to another even thought they're disconnected).

don't worry, this won't happen.

having you build multi store stuff just to see your followers being unable to use it would be a flaw so obvious they impossibly can't have done nothing about it.

I have no idea how to multiquote lol.EDIT figured it out.

EDIT:My english is also more rusty than ever.

EDIT:I'm so bad at forums.

now THAT'S something i really think would be desperately needed.

a means to get npc's from one navmesh to another i mean.

although there ARE ways in skyrim, theoretically:

one is, you can use jump edges on 2 non-connected navmeshes. disadvantage is, they'll jump in the middle of nowhere

the other is: when separating navmeshes in interior cells, i saw that, between the original and the fresh navmesh, ck makes connection markers (similar to cell borders, but marked blue and, being in interiors in that case, lacking cell borders of course). npc's path normally over these.

there's totally no other way i found in ck to make these though, and if you make them the above way, they break extremely easily (like one uncautios finalize and they're gone for good)

anyway, what it really needs is a way to connect to exterior navmeshes without [censored] them up, because as it is in skyrim, every second mod that edits ext navmeshes does so, and npc's shall just stand around looking dumb ever after...

'nkay, and what you wanted to say was...? )

Nothing actually.

As I said I'm bad at forums eheh.

Yeah,accidentally deleting a navmesh because I merged Two in one without realizing it was the worst.

An accurate tes5edit reapair always solved it without messing with my work to much however.

yeah, happens all the time, and that's just why i hardly make more than 2-3 ext cells a day, because in an ext, you can't just replace a nm, you gotta edit the existing one, even if you totally changed everything in that cell, and you can't break existing cell borders to neighbour navmeshes remaining vanilla or you'll break pathing (which in my view is the hardest part, since cell borders can be in so horribly unsuiting places that fitting them with what you built can turn into some odd arcane science at times)

One thing I would do if i needed a massive navmesh edit was to use one of the comands from the navmesh control panel to select an entire mesh from a single triangle,lift it up in the sky and delete all triangles but one.And the I'd leave that one triangle high in the sky where It can't hurt anybody.I would do this with all navmesh islands to clean up the cell and start from scratch.Leaving one of the triangles intact make it so that the navmesh is not considered deleted but just reshaped.Cell borders can the be re-zipped togheter with the new navmesh.I never had any problem with this metod.No errors no pathfinding crazyness.

yeah, and if that's an exterior, that's when you've f**d the navmesh up, since all vanilla navmesh borders are gone and pathing is perdu.

you can fix this for YOUR mod by refinalizing of course, but you can fix it for your mod ONLY by doing so, meaning, if another mod in a neighbouring cell alters that navmesh (properly or not), pathing will be _impossible_ between these cells for _all_ npc's, since non of the target triangles, that are referred by the cell borders and that crossing npc's would be sent to, exist anymore.

that's just what i meant desperately needs fixing, since a majority of modders don't even seem to be aware of this and it just constantly happens in skyrim (or is there any of you with a modded game who hadn't had npc's refusing to move on in the middle of nowhere for no obvious reasons?)

I'm with you on the fact that we need a solution to the problem.After all,Is navmesh really the only way to direct pathfinding?

Regarding messing up the navmesh:you're completely right.That's why i put my player houses in underused places.Also,of the many mods i did i only released like 2 on the nexus.If I do experimental and potentially dangerous things,I keep them for myself.

i haven't been modding long enough to know the previous system up to oblivion ("pathing grid"? or stg? , but i heard it was worse

but, as a non-coder, i'd speculate it's a compromise with performance. like, not actually sure how that's handled, but just consider this: a vast part of, say, skyrims, npc's are persistent. meaning, they're ALWAYS treated by the engine, performing their ai packages and all, even if their cell's not loaded or even hasn't ever been loaded yet and they're in the remotest of areas. them running their ai packages now means, they'll necessarily have to path, even if unloaded, which again means, some representation of ALL of the game world needs to be in memory ALL of the time, and if that representation was the actual game world, our machines likely would collapse or run at 1-2 fpm (that's frames per minute). so, just as this representation of the game world, that's where i think navmesh comes into play (and considering how big ALL navmeshes together may be, that's quite a lot to keep in memory as is anyway)

...but that's just speculation on my parts anyway, maybe it actually all works totally different

as a rule of thumb: make any changes you like, but don't touch door triangles or border triangles. and keep an eye on your navmesh's id, as long as it keeps it's original id, you're good. and always check for errors (ctrl-f) before saving, saving with unfixed errors will 100% cause your nm to be a replace and the vanilla one deleted.

and if it's really just player houses: enable markers and collision objects, select your building in render win, click the collision box button, you'll get a house size collision box. in that ref's primitive tab, select navcut. there you go, no more need to edit navmesh, except finalize once without changing anything so you'll get your door triangles (if needed).