Lack of Fiends attacking you right near your home base in the game? Not having to worry that your father is going to be killed because the law enforcement in your state isn't good enough? I call that peace. I believe most things Caesar does are because of past events he experienced while with the NCR and the Followers.

I think I'm gonna kill myself (metaphorically) and go against everything I'm fighting in this thread for and actualy try a legion playthrough or a house playthrogh.
(but if I only help Legion or House what will I do on the way to the strip?(I love all the random NCR quests, but I guess I could still help the Powder Gangers destroy goodsprings, and bring law to primm))
(the legion are heartless jerks right? So that's what they would do right? Help people destroy a town of very nice people who never did anything bad to you and even saved your life?)

Too bad you were made into a slave or a soldier or just killed before you could enjoy that. Sure they bring peace, but only to a small number of people.

You can play a House playthrough while helping the NCR too (I recommend it actually, I went an Anti-NCR Pro-House playthrough and I couldn't leave the Strip without being attacked by the NCR.

Haven't gotten to the Strip yet on my current character, I guess I could do House.

I'm just mad I can't do Yes-Man and then use my Securiton Mk II army to ally with NCR and totally destroy all opposition.

NCR + Boomers + Khans + Brotherhood + Followers + The strip tribes + my Securitrons = a pretty good nation.

Legion are the villains

Cheers

There are like no quests for the Legion compared to the amount for NCR. I suggest you do NCR that aren't anti-Legion quests before getting to the strip. That way you won't affect your Legion rep.

Soldiers are the protectors and they happen to protect slaves. So yeah, I'd be placed under the peace banner there.

But they are forced to be soldiers, you don't have a choice. He brings peace, but ruins everyones lives to do so.

Caesar entered The Strip as though it was his Triumph. The Legion pushed the NCR out of New Vegas entirely, driving them back to the Mojave Outpost. The Legion occupied all major locations, enslaving much of the population and peacefully lording over the rest. Under the Legion's banner, civilization - unforgiving as it was - finally came to the Mojave Wasteland.

So he gets to peacefully control a small amount of people. You may be confusing stability with peace, because to me it seems pretty obvious that they are stable, as long as Caesar lives.

That is a confusing ending isn't it? Never thought about that. Everybody is a slave to Caesar in one way or another. I'll chalk that up to a typo.

There are no pre-determined villains, except maybe the raider gangs and the Fiends.

But you have to admit, it is pretty obvious that out of the 4 main factions, CL is meant to be the "evil" one. With all named character's karma being bad or evil (or neutral in the case of Siri). I've had issue with this since my first playthrough.

I checked the wiki. Lucius, Edward Sallow, Antony, [censored] even Lanius are neutral. Vulpes is still very evil, though. But yeah, I kind of agree. In my first playthrough I massacred the lot of them.

The Hoover Dam battle alone will turn you good because all the Centurions are marked as evil.

Well, when was that changed? I checked there two months ago and they were all evil! But you're right somebody changed it!

I think the Legion is evil because aside from the sadistic Legionare, most are comitting atrocities without realizing it's bad because according to Caesar, it's only bad when Caesar declares it so. But from the karmic POV, it's obvious the legion is evil, but their ambitions in life are deep grey.

Way to misdirect.
How about we try it another way?

Caesar entered The Strip as though it was his Triumph. The Legion pushed the NCR out of New Vegas entirely, driving them back to the Mojave Outpost. The Legion occupied all major locations, enslaving much of the population and peacefully lording over the rest. Under the Legion's banner, civilization - unforgiving as it was - finally came to the Mojave Wasteland.

Oh and how about that Primm ending where they aren't killed or enslaved?
I'll tell you what they became; Citizens.

Legion has citizens too, we just don't see anything but warcamps in New Vegas as it's not their territory.

You're just as guilty of misdirecting too, trying to imply the Legion is more peaceful as opposed to pointing out they are enslaving many.

That fact has already been established, no point in furthering it anymore.
It's when people decide to exlude the positive aspects of Legion that I respond with them.
Why should I continue with the bad aspects since you fine gentlemen already contribute with well enough of them?

PROTIP:The villains are the faction that is evil.

Wow, this guys arguements put some other previous lows to shame. Even worse than that guy I always [censored] about Justin .

No, I said they brought peace, just in small amounts, you just wanted to say that so you left it out.

The issue is the Legion do alot of harm to bring a little good. Were they more efficient, I'd be inclined to sympathize. But the way they do things is just reckless and unneededly brutal. I dont see the Legion as scum of the earth, just a horribly inefficient empire.

Then NCR is the villain, cause I think they are evil.. :shrug:

I don't have the moral flexibility to understand how people see the Legion as the best rulers for the Mohave, they all come across a little like Confessor Cromwell in Fallout 3 to me... You know they believe what their saying and they have a couple of decent points but you just can't get past the illogical thought that what their saying is completely crazy and makes little logical sense, like a priest trying to explain why he believes in God or something. :blush: Personally, I always go with the NCR or House, House because his plan sounds awesome and he's a hell of a speaker and the NCR because they remind me most of our system and they have some great people in, enough good people to make me look past the few ass-holes. The opposite for the Legion.