Without the courier the NCR would fall apart. They're disorganized, lazy, whiny, regularly get drunk and gamble away funds, and seem to piss all the other factions off. They've got some decent soldiers and some noble ideals, but they're not integrated enough to get their job done. For example, they're everywhere but can't seem to keep the roads safe for caravaners, they occupy lands but don't have the manpower to rule them effectively (eg. Primm), and their preference for diplomacy instead of direct force just delays problems and increases the violence later on (like what happened with the Kings, and their alliance with Mr House.) Poor lines of communication results in disasters like Bitter Springs, and they probably regularly lose good soldiers like Boone because of such mistakes. It's pathetic that they are supposed to be the "good" guys. In my opinion, without the courier the NCR would get demolished by the Legion within a matter of weeks, and if not by them, then House, or the Great Khans. At least the Legion has a proper chain of command, enough food, water, and supplies, and strict policies on how to discipline dissenters. The NCR suffers from ambiguous policies.

Wait for it...


You mean, like America?


(Im American. Just trolling about.)

Not necessarily the people, certainly the leadership.

I have always seen the N.C.R. in New Vegas as somewhat of parody/metaphor of the present day United States/classic empire-decline on so many levels:

1) Politicalization of military conflict to further political purposes. check

2) Substitute oil for water. get it?

3) Probably an undeclared war decreed by executive order (which is basically the point in history when a republic becomes an empire)

4) Agressive-militarism is draining the treasury like crazy (while their own people are on the verge of starving to death) rendering the leadership class totally incapable of solving even the most basic of internal problems of their own making which are much more serious

5) Hideous debt leading to crippling taxes. check

6) Almost worthless paper currency backed by nothing with ever declining purchasing power. check

7) Military so badly over-extended that it's practically no longer functional. check

8) Totally apathetic and disillusioned populace. check

9) No clear goal, no exit strategy. Intractable & un-winable war. check


Remember the troopers are drafted into service by national conscription, these are civilians we are talking about not soldiers... forced to fight and die in the military for a lost cause... if there ever was a cause even to begin with.

The "good guys" are whoever you decide they are each of the main factions has some flaws if they didn't the game would have been worse for it, each faction has legitimate reason for being backed you deciding which one is the crux of the main story if they didn't have any shortcomings it would be a black and white choice NCR is good and helps the people while the Legion just slaughters everybody. That would make for a terrible story fallout always (until 3) given you the choice between equally viable and flawed groups to bac the gray and grey morality is part of what I love about the series. You decide wether the NCR can get it together or wether maybe the Legion would do a better job with the Mojave.

Oh I know, I mean "good" from the perspective of the fallout world. From a gamer's point of view, I love that they're not totally good or bad. Makes it fun

Let's not forget pandering to the rich elite. U.S. to banks and wall street, NCR to Mr. House

PLEASE stop now, if you don't the NCR huggers will come running in here to start shouting things, then the Legion fans will pick on NCR more, egging them on, then this will turn into an NCR vs Legion thread. :banghead:

The NCR is full of a bunch of fresh kids that got conscripted from California. Half of them are not even trained to do their jobs properly.

Sad thing is that it's true, they get three weeks at basic, then they get shipped off to the frontlines, now, most of them don't even get proper armor. It's Kimball's jingoist, imperialist attitude that caused this, forcing them to occupy a foreign land for four years, and the NCR is nearing bankruptcy because of the war.

This is the main reason why I can never bring myself to side with the NCR. Say what you want about the Legion, but at least they know what they're doing.

House supporter here, btw.

I think Gaunxii said it best, but really the NCR isn't going to collapse because they might loose in the Mojave; at the end of the day what the hell can the Legion do to the NCR proper? Jack and [censored] I'd reckon. Their imcompetancy is really played up in Vegas to give some ambiguity about which faction is really best for the Mojave but I still think that the NCR, despite it's floors, are the best long-term option. Do I help them though? No. They fear the next strike by my geriatric ninja, fear the next patrol that will be found pasted across walls or the next Crimson Caravan to never reach them. :chaos:

I wouldn't be surprised if you have a special save with Remnant Armor, a modded Plasma Caster, and Hoover Dam, just so you can blast NCR troops at leisure. :laugh:

On the West Coast the NCR is the 9000 pound gorilla that nobody sane picks a fight with. In the Mojave, they're very near overextended, at the end of a vulnerable supply chain, and have their forces in the area composed of green recruits and a handful of elite veterans. In terms of military deployment, it's not too bad, actually. Sending in a bunch of green troops led by a solid corps or vets is how the military generally runs in real life, even now. The NCR's main problem in the Mojave isn't numbers, it's communications and supply.

:ninja: Guess what, you aren't surprised . I have the remnants too.

I can't bring myself to finish the game with the NCR after i played the House main quest,the NCR just look like the good guys.

Also,after what House said about the BoS i never finished a playthrough without blowing them up.Everyone else is better off with them dead.


House Ftw. IMO.

I see it all as being part of a bigger picture.


The Great War destroyed the Earth basically, and yet war still continues on afterwards. I see the entire Fallout series as a sort of question of "where did we go wrong," with different attitudes and political agendas being examined.

The NCR represents democracy: yes it's fair and no one would complain about not being handled fairly, but the problem is that not everyone who can vote really has a clue about the issues. The result is that a democracy is settling for less: it goes for a 67% on a test when it's actually capable of being an 89%. Besides that, there's always an issues of making each vote equal. You can keep it to one vote per person all you want, but what's stopping the rich from donating to their favorite candidate, giving them all the extra support they need to get more votes? What's stopping the wealthy from simply BUYING votes? The NCR and democracy may be "fair" compared to other options, but it's doomed to never be perfect.

Caesar's Legion represents a strict dictatorship. Everything Caesar says goes, and those who dare disagree will be put to death. The plus of this is that the community remains stable; every citizen is a loyal servant to Caesar, they all share whatever opinion Caesar has and they can be relied on to complete their tasks and meet their goals. The question is though, at what cost? Sure, it's stable and we know what we're getting, and as long as we play by the rules, everything's fine. The problem is....well what are the rules? What happens when the rules involve the mistreatment of women, or the ability to enslave the weak? Stability here comes at a steep price: at the price of one's voice and at the price of one's own freedom. Of course things are stable when no one is free to decide things for themselves...

And Mr. House? Mr. House is, again, a dictatorship, though this time a little less strict than before. Mr. House, again, can promise stability. And that 89% capability that the NCR has but they'll never reach as a democracy? Mr. House can achieve that. So then what's the problem? Again, though you may feel free and you may feel as though you can voice your opinion, you really aren't and you really can't. You MIGHT be free to an extent and you might be able to say "House svcks balls" and get away with it, but at any time, he can take that away as he pleases. Mr. House, a much more appealing dictatorship than Caesar's Legion (for most) sort of poses the question, "yes, a dictatorship can potentially be quite nice. How comfortable do things need to be before you'll sell out your name for this one?" In that sense, I suppose it's appropriate that Cass hates New Vegas...

And Yes Man? Total anarchy. All the potential of Mr. house and Caesar, all the problems of the NCR. Anything can happen. Question is, do you wanna risk it?

The rangers arent incompetent idiots.

NCR is the single Largest Super power in the known Fallout Universe. Been around for a hundred years or so. I am sure they will be fine. Problem is NCR did not want a war in the Mojave. They did not think they would run into something like the Legion. They don't piss off every faction. They rub them the wrong way at times but many admit the NCR in their own way is doing good. It is just that NCR is expanding so fast and like any democracy, it is slow and bureaucratic.

NCR does keep alot of the Mojave safe and they could have done more if they had not run into the Legion. The rest of California, and Northern Nevada is very secure. NCR is a heavy sleeping bear. Piss it off enough and you will be in a world of [censored].

The only thing people seem to hate about NCR in the Mojave is Taxes. Every country (at least first world ones) need taxes, for things like schools, police, military, roads, trains (NCR is tried to build in the Mojave) and so on. Every place NCR absorbs into the NCR, becomes apart of the NCR government in the form of a territory and maybe someday a state. Like America did when it was expanding West.

NCR can't patrol its roads or keep its people safe. I mean, Nipton is so close to the Mojave Outpost and yet it got overrun by Legion. Camp Forlorn Hope is basically demoralized and without the Courier's help, it falls during the Second Battle. Camp Golf's main force are the Misfits and their name alone is indication. The Monorail to New Vegas is infiltrated and later exploded without the Courier's help.

The senators are corrupt and take bribes from Barons. They ally rather than annex. And in a world where tribes exist and the entire country is fractured, that's NOT GOOD. A single minded monolithic faction is the way to go. I try to like NCR but I can't. Simply because it's too corrupt. I believe that in a situation like after a nuclear war, the government must exist to keep order and NCR cannot keep order. Even if they genuinely care.

Caesar's Legion on the other hand, despite being a strict dictatorship, can patrol the roads and if any caravan is ever attacked, the perpetrators are crucified. Powder Gangers? All crucified or ran away. And in a fight with the NCR, specifically General Oliver? Complete annihilation. The only two problems with Legion is that they enslave their own population if they're women and that Caesar's next in line isn't fit to be the next in line.

As for the dictatorship...what's the problem? If Caesar finally has his Rome and they live less like a savage culture, then the citizens will actually be able to live peacefully. And remember, Caesar WILL change his policies now that he has supreme control over a more technologically capable region(New Vegas).

The NCR as a well oiled machine.

1) Game starts
2) NCR wins!
3) Roll credits

elapsed time ... however long it took you to create a character

NCR does not see the Mojave as theirs yet, they only really care about the Dam. Again do you not understand NCR is huge? All of California, Baja Mexico, Northern Nevada and parts of Oregon. I doubt every road in their nation is as unsafe as the Mojave. That the entire Republic is in chaos.

What government does not have corruption?

Fixed that for you.

Wow there is just soooo much wrong with some of the posts in this thread but im going to start with this one, its got to be the best.

First of all their not disorganized, or lazy, i'll give you whiny because of the whole nuclear winter thing, and they only get dunk and gamble away their on money, not funds, when they're on leave and can go to the strip. They're perfectly capable of keeping their own roads and territories safe, it just so happens that right now the Mojave is the front line of a major war so of course things are not going to be perfect. You couldn't walk down the streets of Berlin during world war two without getting shot at and its not really a good idea to do it in Vegas right now either.
And how is the NCR going to get "demolished" by House or the Khans? Without the courier House is about as threatening as a pissed kitten because he doesn't have anybody to activate his securitron army, and the Khans are huddled up in Red Rock just hoping that the NCR doesn't come to finish the job that they started.
Its like I always say, all the people who hate on the NCR should think back about five years prior to New Vegas when the Legion first invaded, if they hadn't been there to stop them they would have rolled through Vegas, hung House from a cross and enslaved everybody else.

Yah....well america is still awesome dont troll about it.

Oh yah the NCR are not Incompetent...you want incomplete look at Ceasers Legion...

Really? Look at Ranger Milo who complains about the troops he's with outside Nelson. Look at Camp Golf where the 'wash outs' are put. Look at most of the soldiers being childish and boohoo about the simplest things. Also, their money ARE NCR Funds, derp. What pays for soldiers money? Military/government funds. NCR is pissing it's money down the drain, courtesy of the famous NCR tribal 'Head-In-Butt' Kimball. Things are so bad in NCR people are going East to MAKE money, speak to the gun merchant at 188, she states that the Prospecters you see are NCR citizens to poor to pay the outrages taxes back home.


You answer your own complaint. Their OWN roads and territories. The NCR are foriegn invaders, no matter how you try to justify it, plain and short.


Funny, I could say the same about NCR. House could find another person to do his bidding if he tried, but when will the next all powerful super human like The Courier come along to play Atlas to NCR's occupation of a foreign land?

So you say, we don't know how things could have played out.