It's probably in your back pocket again. :icecream:

I'm no NCR fan, but I can tell you why Moore is a bad leader for the NCR.

She was a Ranger, wounded during the BoS-NCR. Because of that wound, she got put behind a desk, something she seems to dislike. She holds grudges, she blames the Brotherhood for taking her out of the Rangers which is precisely why she doesn't want you to take the diplomatic approach. But who wouldn't want the Brotherhood-of-[censored]-steel on sides with them? The BoS helps at the Battle AND patrols highway 95, keeping it safe. All they ask in return is Salvaged PA Suits. She's not a stupid person, so it can't be ignorance that would make her refuse to have them help against the enemy, especially with an enemy such as The Legion. She lets her personal grudges get in the way of her work, and at her height of power that isn't good. There would definitely be an increase in causalities without the Brotherhood at the Hoover Dam.

Not just that, but her overall ignorance towards diplomatic approaches with The Great Khans and The Kings is disturbing too. The Great Khans are a powerful force, not something to be tossed aside at the hands of a Courier. They can also severely help at the Hoover Dam too, possibly decreasing trooper causalities. I just don't understand her, thinking that without any help the NCR can hold the Legion again. Even if they managed to do that, was it worth the huge amount of deaths that just took place? C'mon Moore. Maybe you're not cut out for the job afterall, maybe she does make a better Ranger.

Her bloodthirsty nature would hinder her rise to general, unless she learns to use diplomacy when appropriate, but she would make a excellent field commander. If I were Kimball I'd send her to SoCal, give her a large Flying Column and let her loose in the Legion's rear ala Sherman's March through Georgia. If the NCR insists on not using it's numerical and territorial advantages, they could at least send her to Forlorn Hope to command operations there....she would be too busy to meddle in affairs that Hsu and Crocker are better equipped to deal with.

The funny part is I don't think she needed to use diplomacy at all in the Mojave. The Great Khans are drug dealing tribals that barely have an impact on the Battle of Hoover Dam except supplying the Fiends. The Kings are a gang of thugs dressing up like a dead pill addict who arbitarily rule over Freeside and it's water supply. If you do a dipo approach Freeside isn't added into the NCR (which means no elections or civil rights for them) and the Khans create a large despotic empire to the Northwest, who the hell wants that? And then theres the BOS. Besides the point both groups are still at war, it's a pretty big deal for the NCR t have to give up all it's power armor. And for what? To have an alliance with a group they can beat? To let them rebuild their strength and info about the world from travellers? She did a great job and I really wish she was General.

Caesar is using diversionary attacks, to get General Oliver to send troops protecting the dam to other parts of the Mojave. Oliver was proven right because the Legion's main target, for a second time was to take the dam. All other area's the Legion attack were a means to draw NCR away from the Dam.

NCR's original goal was to take all of the Mojave. They still hope to one day, but they then ran into the Legion and the the events at the Divide happened. NCR doesn't have the political will to go all out against the Legion. Wars cost money despite the BS about the belief that it makes money. NCR would need thousands of more troops to go all out against the Legion. The political will just isn't there, the Legion aren't a big enough threat to justify the cost of an all out invation and take over of Legion lands. The population of NCR would not allow a war against the Legion until they finally see the Legion as a serious threat. They would need a Pearl Harbor like event in order to go along with such a long and costly war.

The Divide isn't in the past. The Divide was the main way into the Mojave. NCR lost entire divisions to the divide, they would have easily won the first battle at Hoover Dam, Joshua Graham even admits that. The powder gangers just added more trouble for NCR, because their backup way into the Mojave was now crippled.

Moore is the only one I can really talk about, since even though on my first (and only) play through I've gone the NCR route, I never got to talk to Oliver nor the president. I'm not saying that Moore is bad at her job, she does what she does well, it's just the way she does it. Why decide that it's best to just wipe out the Brotherhood? I know that she had problems with the past, but when your about to fight an enemy that you might not even be able to win against, you can use all the help you can get. I don't like the Brotherhood either (Although I do like the east coast branch) because of the fact that they care about nothing but technology and themselves but that's besides the point. I think Colonel Hsu would be the best when it comes to this position.

I don't really see the problem with General Oliver, it's not like he's wasting NCR soldiers, he's doing the exact opposite. Maybe it's his lack of action that upsets people.

my answer to your questions is this is just a game. don't take it as a real life dude.

I had enough of this games the Glitches is killing me.

something wrong with veronica as a companion. the item dissapeared when i come out from omertas. and could not end the quest because can not talk to colonel in hooverdamn.

You are missing the point.

I could ask the same about why people would support a jingoist nation that stomps out individual settlements of their land at the tip of a barrel of a gun, taxes people to the point of barely scratching out a living, and letting idiots vote bigger idiots into power, and is completely supportive okay with Mutant abuse, and political assassination. But hey, it's all in the name of 'DEMOCRACY FOAR TEH PEPULZ!' so it MUST be right.

A rogue Brahmin baron doing that is hardly representative of a nation of millions, never did see the NCR rolling into Primm taking their settlements of land from the barrel of a gun. And then of course it's funny that you bring up taxes, sense Mr.House loves to tax 50 percent of your business income which means the prices are higher for consumers, which basically means everyones paying a 50 percent tax and a higher cost for goods and services. O and then theres the full out genocide of the Kings and BOS under House along with his wonderful despot rule without rights and liberties.

Yay :confused:

No, but they do sit by while a small group of Powder Gangers take the town over. Even outnumbered, thos NCR soldiers were better equipped and could have taken the town back. Instead, the sit by doing nothing.

They had orders to do so. Much as they may have wanted to help, if one has orders to not get involved, one does not get involved. That's the way a Military works. Have a beef with the general orders passed down to all the NCR forces in the Mojave? Go take it up with Oliver. Lt. Hayes and the rest don't have a choice in the matter.

Cowardice.

[censored]. Orders are orders, Haha. When one puts their name on the line and puts on the uniform, their lives are no longer entirely theirs. They are part of the Military Machine, and when a superior officer tells them to do something they goddamed well do it. The ONLY caveat to this is if the order is illegal. However, being to to conserve the strength of ones unit and not get involved in bush skirmishes does not qualify as such.

Bedammed civilian moral high horse. Get off it.

It doesn't matter how you address it. The NCR aren't the knights in shining armor you want them to be.

Where did I ever even make a comment that could be considered even related to calling NCR "knights in shining armor?" Really. I want you to quote the post where I even came close to saying such. As no post saying such was ever made by me, you can go ahead and take your time.

Let me guess. You're a legion lover with a woe-is-me, "I'm a persecuted minority" complex that started playing FNV because a PCGamer review told you to, and you gravitated to the legion because it made you feel more badass after getting stuffed in a locker back in high school too many times.

Actually, I wasn't referring to Jacobstown, though that does shed light on my point of the kind of people in power. I was referring to what the NCR let people in The Hub do to Mean over in Westside.

As to taxing. Who cares about The Strip? Believe or not, the Strips been running that way since Benjamin Seigal built those casinos back in the early years of its Neon image. So you're complaining about The Strip owners overcharging it's rentees and customers? REALLY? Come on.

The Kings is entirely optional, and the BoS is a neccessary sacrifice. If the Kings help NCR, it plants sedition against House's regime and promotes NCR revolution, a thing that NCR ironically despises the FotA for doing. If you convince the Kings to go to war? It promotes Vegas wants and DEMANDS its independance of the NCR machine. Take a look at NCR my friend, what is the NCR? A society ruled by one city, where as it's outlying areas are run by corrupt brahmin barons, crime lords (In New Renos case), and the greedy Caravan Families. The NCR is bound for trouble because all the resources of those they annex goes right to Shady Sands, and then they send a few troops into their new region and horrifically defend it in a very sloppy half done way.

Also, without rights? Liberties? I never saw a single settlement being dominated or enslaved to his bidding. Goodsprings is profitable with the Legion driven out of Mojave, Primm in 2/3 endings is an independant casino town, NoVac is still a good and independant settlement, Freeside remains relatively status quo. Face it, your claim is a strawman arguement and is governed by an unfounded bias.

Edit - Bah! Captain House there got in a post before mine went through. The following is in response to Lord Coake's post above his.

A personal attack, really? He's clearly playing devil's advocate. -_-

Queue

LOL Your personal attack on me does little to sway me to your point of view. Me being a Legion fan (True To Caesar ) has little to do with this thread. I see the flaws in all factions, including the Legion. I am not blindly ignorant to the idea that none of the factions are indeed perfect. But rather we all choose the lesser of two evils, from our own perspectives. As for the knight in shinging armor comment, you don't have to say it word for word; your actions, statements and humorous atttacks against me...already prove it

In other words, you have nothing to back up your statement and have to rely on halfassed attempts at hyperbole.

I'm not taking sides here, but didnt you start this by picking on him and calling him what amounts to a 'blind Legion fan boy'? All he's doing is calling you out on resorting to a personal attack instead of calm composed logic.

Again, I'm neutral in all this, so don't snip at me.

I wasn't the one who turned my posts into personal attacks. I've backed up my statements and thought we were having a somewhat logical debate. I would seriously consider looking at yourself, about having little to back up on, before you start accusing me. Rather than continue with this dramatization...lets move forward with what the thread is about.

It's better to say sparing the Kings is entirely optional. All other outcomes lead to their deaths.

It's also wrong to say that the Kings and NCR have an actual alliance going on. They help each other only when you choose Colonel Hsu to offer a deal. Otherwise they just stop their violence against the NCR citizens (as a favor or under threat) or it dies down without the instigator. There is little sedition against House planted by the NCR.

Either way there is little justifing House massacre of the Kings.

The Kings fought first, if I remember correctly.

Except the Kings don't want to promote anything beyond their own independence. All the King does is try and forge a peace with the NCR. He has no desire to be annexed by them and vigorously resists any such demands. Yet simply for not getting his men killed for no purpose and striving to make Freeside a better place House wants to punish him? Why? How is accepting NCR aid for desperate locals all that different from House fleecing NCR citizens of their money? I didn't see House making life difficult for the NCR when the circumstances didn't favor that approach. His desire to punish the Kings for supporting the NCR when he was supporting the NCR himself by the same logic is one of the oddest and most unjust decisions House ever made and one of the things that has always given me real pause about his leadership and the sort of society he'll build.

"Did you refuse to go along with House's arbitrary policy changes? Even though you had no way of knowing what that change would be, that it was coming or that House had any interest in the piece of land you happen to be on? Well prepare to be punished by Securitrons for your willful disobedience anyway!"

There's just no way to justify what can happen to the Kings in the House ending.

I'm not gonna lie that's to much text to debate and I'm too tired, so instead some main points.

Just because House is treating people with respect when they play to the script doens't mean they have rights. Welfare and Rights in a philosophical sense aren't the same. I can have a slave and treat it nicely but that doesn't mean it has any rights. In the same way who ever House rules over he taxes them 50 percent. I don't care what other people tax etc but for some reason there is this myth that House is this benevolent Randist and that's just not the case. Anyway we've gotten to far away from the thread and I don't want to see it get locked. If you want to continue this debate about the different factions there's the "New Leader of the Kings thread".

On topic: My basic point still stands, the NCR would be in great shape if Kimball and Oliver weren't coming up with the strategy.