I'm not looking to start a flame war, and I'm not looking for anyone to talk about the best equipment bonuses or gameplay bonuses. And I know Legion and Independent are also options, but I'm more curious about the two options I view as the hardest to decide, because they're similar in flavour.

House or NCR? Both bring stability to the Mojave. Both are not unquestionably good. NCR is a group of corrupt bureaucrats with good intentions but are ultimately self-serving. House is the cold dictator, ensuring freedom and prosperity, as long as one plays by his rules, and is fixated on Old World glory.

I'm more curious about the opinions from the story perspective, in which one of the two seems to truly benefit the most parties possible. In the end, of course, not everyone can have a happy ending. I already know the endings for both, and am posting to the spoilers board so those can be included in the discussion.

House lets all of New Vegas remain as it was before the war. He also doesn't bother all of the smaller towns throughout the Mojave. All that matters to him is that New Vegas remains intact and untouched.
The NCR taxes New Vegas heavily but all in all lets it remain similar.

I would go for Mr. House. After all, he is the one that dug you out of the grave in Goodsprings and saved your life.

House also seems like a specific 'man with a plan', as ambitious as it may be. Though perhaps it's just that; too ambitious. He wants to get people into space and off the ruined Earth, searching for a new planet to call home... eventually. NCR seems more driven to make up for the mistakes of the past, by reclaiming the old world and making it alive again.

The NCR is just trying to regain the land that it lost. With their heavy taxes, some small towns cannot thrive. The NCR also orders around civilians and forces them to leave some areas or join up. House is about protecting the land that he built up from nothing. He lets the rest of the wasteland do whatever it wants.

Indeed, but it was never theirs to begin with. They're simply driven by a new Manifest Destiny; reclaiming America, through occupation. Taxation isn't something specifically evil on their part, as malevolent as it may seem; after all, one cannot run an invading army on hopes and dreams alone.

But House seems like a harsh counterpoint in that regard. He simply does not care about the rest of the world. He will make sure New Vegas is safe, but no one else. The NCR is trying to save everyone, but they're doing it wrong. House is definitely what's best for the specific region, but who is the best overall in the long-term?

Mr. House has witnessed the mistakes of the old world first hand (and being in the position of power he did he was probably somewhat involved) he'll have a better idea how to ensure that the mistakes of the past are not repeated.

Yes, but he has also sacrificed something that has made him lose touch with the people under his care; his humanity. Mind, humanity is what caused the War in the first place, but one questions just how safe from corruption a cybernetic God-King really is, in the long-term.

The NCR is corrupt, and broken, and generally confused about how to do their job, but they do have some honestly good, if not twisted, people in their fold. But the one of the reasons I'm not fond of the NCR story is the fact they /demand/ House's death. There's no attempt at diplomacy, in the end. They want New Vegas, and are tired of asking nicely. So they murder a pre-War industrial genius and give up all the knowledge he might carry which could aid them.

The way I see it is NCR wins either way. If house wins they just lose the Mojave, plenty of area around that.

I wouldn't say House has lost his humanity. He cares for humanity, just not a 'bleeding heart care for every human' type. Also, he doesn't see himself as a God-King, he doesn't demand tribute and worship like Caesar does of his Legion, he just sees himself as he saw himself before the War, a rich CEO with the money and resources to do what he determines to be the greater good.

I dislike the way NCR acts, it's not to friendly. They say 'Hey, how would you like to be a part of us? We'll tax you of course! ' and if you say no, they come back with a gun. NCR can't accept that there can be independant nations like a House run Vegas. NCR isn't inherently evil, but they arguably do a lot of harm. Hell, they blew up an entire city just to win at Hoover Dam. NCR isn't evil, but it is a wreckless nation. I'd say siding with House but helping NCR at the same time does a lot more good for NCR, as it slaps NCR in the face saying their quasi-Manifest Destiny nature is bringing them nothing but trouble.

OP, you might be interested in reading some of these arguments that people had over the different factions. They might help you decide.

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1374953-mr-house-a-good-guy/
You can start here too: http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1374953-mr-house-a-good-guy/page__view__findpost__p__20806216
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1372185-what-each-faction-means-for-vegas-and-who-you-support-part-2/
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1370611-is-mrhouse-the-best-option/page__view__findpost__p__20747911
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1347915-no-faction-will-restore-the-mojave/


Edit:

This is how I view the NCR as well.

You have to remember, OP, that the NCR is in the Mojave to take advantage of its resources and nothing more. They want the electricity at Hoover Dam, and the money in Vegas, and they don't give a damn who they step on in order to get those things.

House may be a dictator, but at least he uses the Mojave's resources to help the Mojave, and at least he knows what he's doing. The NCR is rather reckless thanks to unintelligent leaders and poorly executed plans.

House is the better choice. Simply because he is a beacon for humanity's revival. He will make Vegas into a large powerhouse, even greater than NCR.

I've always liked House better. Under him, both NCR and Caesar's Legion can remain in power in their respective territories, but neither are in much of a position to pointlessly butt heads anymore. Meanwhile, those in the Mojave who aren't under House's jurisdiction for the time being can continue their everyday lives as normal, though that could always change. Though NCR loses the war, it more or less enters into a business relationship with Vegas, with the latter supplying power from the Dam. Trade agreements between the two are also possible. NCR loses the current corrupt administration in favor of some hopefully smarter people (like Hanlon) and slows down its aggressive expansionist policies, while House gets busy putting his plans into action.

If NCR wins, though they do apparently bring some good to the region, there's heavy taxation all around, most of which goes to support central NCR territory. And the long-term forecast looks a lot more grim; Kimball and his cronies remain in power, continuation of their expansion policy to the detriment of their internal affairs seems likely, and if Lanius is still alive, continued violence against the Legion seems inevitable.

There's some twisted humour in the fact that NCR is sort of behaving in a way that one of their former threats lived by; pure Unity. You join to survive. There is no other option.

They do need a slap in the face, I agree.

At the same time, though, House clings to the Old World, as if the War never happened for him. He's fixated on the ideas of the old, and his march is towards progress using old world-thinking. Same as NCR, though in a different way.

You can always choose the Independent route.

It wouldn't make sense for my character, though. They're not the type to lead. Only do great and terrible things for the people they're working for.

LALALALALALA YES-MAN DOESNT EXIST *Sticks fingers in ears*


Is 'clinging the the Old World' really so bad? is 'As if the War never happened' so bad? And I wouldn't say he doesn't pretend it didn't exist, he just sees it as a minor setback, which takes some balls. I mean, considering he founded and ran RobCo, a national/multi-national corporation, at the age of 22 and and ran it until the War, when he was in his early 50's, I'd say that takes some very skilled leadership and sheer force of will. If he can run something THAT large, I have faith he could run a smaller territory like New Vegas. Plus, his Vegas is the Old World without the fear of Communism, the political strifes the world of 2077 suffered. Ultimately, it's the Old World without all the troubles.

Perhaps a bit of backstory for my character is in order. They're former NCR, and NCR-loyal. The problem is that it's obvious NCR is running itself into the ground. Mr. House is a man with ideas. Grand and great ideas. But he is also not someone they have direct experience with. He's just a face on a screen spouting promises and wealth and progress. NCR is corrupt and broken, but they're the 'known' evil, and they may yet learn how to be better.

Which is why I'm in such a dilemma, I suppose. I want to play true to my character, but either one would be true to the character. To abandon the NCR for someone with a real, working plan and hundreds of years of knowledge, or an embodiment of all that was the Old World democracy and the only 'greater good' they've known firsthand.

Well, look at the edit in my previous post, and consider this. If you side with the NCR, the world loses an economic and technologic visionary who has done Vegas a lot of good. If you side with House, NCR really loses nothing but 'reputation'. They may not OWN Hoover Dam, but they still get to have power and a place to visit. House and NCR wouldn't be enemies. The NCR wouldn't get everything it wanted by losing the Dam to House, but I'd argue it helps reform NCR's political congress.

If you guys could hear Yes Man's cut endgame dialogue, you would be quite frightened of him having control of Mr. House's mainframe.

The NCR is corrupt and dying, and it needs to lose at Hoover Dam. That's as much depth as I'll go into for why the NCR isn't a good ending... For now.

Well, you could always try looking at things the way Cass does.

"NCR's my country and I support it. Anyone who says otherwise, I'll feed them my knee...I'm not some blind, flag-saluting, do-as-they-will NCR lover. They're family, but let me tell you what family means. You ever had a brother? Some dumb-ass younger brother, say, who knocked up a pastor's daughter, can't hold a steady job, and his home away is a jail cell? That's NCR. Their compass is spinning all the time."

Sometimes, you need to enact a little tough love.

*Raises voice*
You can always choose the Independent route.


He calls it "mankind's derailment," right? That sums up House's view quite well imo, as it shows that he's trying to revive the Old World and get mankind 'back on track' so to speak. He want's to get humanity back on the same road and continue to move forward with his dreams.

If I were to describe the philosophy of the other nations in that way (in terms of 'roads' or 'tracks'), I would say:

Indie is saying that mankind needs to move in a new direction rather than get back on track as House wants to do. Instead of viewing mankind as being "derailed," it views it as having taken a new road. What lies along that road is unknown, so the future is uncertain.

The NCR doesn't really know what it's trying to do. It hasn't really thought about mankind being "off track" or "moving in a new direction." It just kind of picked up where humanity left off and started expanding. It's loosely following the Old World road, but its sense of direction is faulty, and it occasionally gets lost and drives off the road, running in circles in the middle of nowhere, not knowing how to get back on track.

The Legion is on the Old World road, but it's going backwards... and it knows it.

It's not as if my character doesn't have Old World Blues, either; one can certainly imagine a kind of stability to a world where survival was expected, almost guaranteed. The worst altercation you'd probably get into would be a barfight, and you could go anywhere in the world on a whim within days. So part of what House is selling appeals quite a bit. It's still hard to give up ones' loyalties. The NCR was great once; couldn't it be great again? Could they help?

But yes, the /need/ to kill House is obviously a sore point for me overall. He should not have to die over a parcel of land, especially one that small. The NCR comes across as incredibly short-sighted, even as they spout on about peace, stability, and the greater good.

House, easily.

i always choose legion or house, it seems like the NCR is almost more violent than the Legion

I did NCR first, since it's sorta the "default choice" for the first time player. However on my second run through I did house and I can't seem to not do house in successive runs. XD

So my vote is House always wins!