Did Chief Hanlon really say that the Legion centurions have no NCR equivalents? That honestly says more than I need to know. And with all the info regarding the centurions, there's no doubt in my mind now.

He did, he even gives a proper boost to Praetorians as well, its really a damn shame how the devs made them so damn weak, as i have said before Centurions should have something like the Ranger Toughness perk that rangers have, but even moreso, like +50% DT, +50% Run speed, and +15% Melee damage. Centurions should also be at least level 25.

Chief Hanlon and colonel Hsu are the only two NCR members I respect.

No centurions shouldnt have these special type of "powers" like the Ranger toughness perk. The Rangers are tough and can get no tougher. The NCR vets are skilled at more things than the Centurions can imagine. In consideration they are really no match. They have Better weapons than The Centurions, Armor, Tactics, and Military.

@sapperet you also support lairs....Figures. Chief hanlon is one of the Biggest liars ever and he should be ashamed of what he had done.

Fine, Centurions should get Centurion Toughness and be boosted to the same level as Vet rangers. As for the rest of what you said, yeah centurions have those too.
Hanlons not a liar, he's honest, I like that.

...Really hows he honest. He puts out False reports to the whole NCR. Also the Centurions shouldnt have Centurion Toughness. If they did it still wouldnt help.... Also the Centurions dont have with what all i have said. They only have Good army and good armor nothing more nothing less. WHY? because the Centurions still use the ocasional melee weapons rather than guns and they dont use guns often... also they dont have very good tatics the rangers do, there snipers they have to have tactics to win the battle or help. Also the NCR's Army is far larger than CL and they have occupied the territory for far longer. The CL is just a annoying little brother that doesnt get out of your hair no matter how much you push him aside.

He's honest about how much of a threat CL is, even Caesar himself respects him. And CL's army is much much larger than the NCR's. And why wont Centurion toughness not help?

Yah no wonder CL respects him because there both lying sacks of [censored]. The NCR's army is far larget than CL's in NV they occuply more than half the Map how is that not large. Look at all the quests compared to the Legion, the NCR has far more and far more locations to go to. The centurions are like lvl 12( they are only past that lvl at the battle of hoover dam) and the NCR vets are like lvl 21 and higher.

Oh, but the NCR should? Bias much? Skills? They're pretty good at shooting things, I'll give 'em that. Better weapons? Nope. Armor? Are you kidding me? Why do I have to continuously mention that Vet armor is a piece of old LAPD riot armor and JEANS. Tactics? A centurion commands 80 people on the battlefield. Military? Don't make me laugh.

Arguing with you is fairly brain dead experience.





Of course, let's disregard all the lore and ONLY go by with what we can see on the map. Herp derp.

Oh ok and slapped together of pieces of other armor is really effective??? mkay sure think that. It would have so many flaws in it. Just because a centurions command a Group of 80 men on the Battlefield doesnt mean hes Superior to anyone. Hell the General Oliver commands more than that so ok i guess hes better than the Centurion...NCR has a Military and its twice the Size of the Legions by far. Its not hopeless just look at the evidence of why the NCR vets are far better than any Centurion. Go over to the arena once in The Fort and fight that Ranger that kills a Centurion with her bare fits. Doesnt sound like the Centurion is so powerful does it?? Better yet its a girl( No offense ladies) and the CL treats them as breading slaves. I think its pretty hilarious actually.

really theres no proove its in her bloody hands mkay. And i know whats all in the Centurion armor and answer this why is it soo good? Plus just look at the map and look at all the NCR locations they are far larger than Ceaser's army. the CL controls like little tiny outposts, cotton wood cove, and the fort....not much. The NCR's armor is far better(not counting the jeans) its a single piece not tons of other pieces that have to get put together. I know the Requiremnts for becoming the Centurion oooooo so impressing. So what your saying is that any battle commander like Col. hsu or Oliver are not powerful and they have to kill hundreds of men to be at least acknowledged. I dont see how kills count towards being so impressive.

Ah, you see, The Legion controls the territory on the other side of the Colorado. The 86 tribes Caesar conquered were incorporated into his army, while the NCR has much larger civilian population. Without the Courier, the Legion would have overrun the Mojave, it's quite obvious.

Hehe....Wow. As I said, arguing with you is fairly brain dead experience - So for my own sake I'm just gonna stop it here.

And your "lalalalalalala - I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" style of arguing is getting redundant.

No you see im just talking about NV alone not the other places. So just in NV the NCR has a Bigger army than them

@Mr. body massage machine Im just pointing out the facts that you cant do and pointing out the Flaws in your argument. Its lacking Info. Arguing with me is a brain dead experiance are you like talking about yourself?? I give supporting facts to why the one side is better or worse you just stuff like the centurion killed Hundreds of Men and make it that "ooooooohhh since he killed hundreds he must be good" no thats not the case. ANYONE can kill someone and kill them in the dozens and thousands. Just because they get hundreds of kills does not mean hes superior to anyone else. Look at modern life examples for instance. General Peteraus or however you say his name. He didnt kill thousands of men but hes a General. He Understands tactics and his enemy and looks into their flaws to see how to take them down. Killing hundreds of people is just being savage just to earn a Rank.

I still don't get the ranger in the arena thing. The Centurions should crush an ordinary ranger in a melee fight but they act all surprised, I can only assume it was an oversight or she is a) the only ranger the idiots have seen and B) she's badass.

I think it was an oversight.


I've been through the armour but I think the veterans have superior upper body armour but would not win because of lax leg protection. If the enemy knows this they just swing their shiny sharp weapons a little lower. Cutting into their thighs would stop anyone dead, no matter how tough they are. Of course armour pieced together is always going to be lax, it'll be cumbersome and have too many flaws. Expert crafting could deal with the encumbrance but the weak spots would be hard to deal with.

That said, a few chinks in armour > no fricking leg protection.
Seriously, enemy has machete, you have leg, enemy uses machete, you have no leg. It's not viable protection, really, really thick.



And yes, the Legion would win the Mojave without the courier, then they would proceed to take Vegas without a hitch (benny being watched by CL and House unable to obtain his chip for the upgrades). NCR are far too weak to hold them, the Legion has a highly effective battle plan and sticks to it, the NCR has...erm, a republic.

So the NCR doesn't have a capital because it's not in the game?

You haven't actually pointed out any flaws in my arguments, you just pull things out of your colon to throw at me. But do actually feel free to do so; I wouldn't mind. You are however pulling a lot of straw man arguments that I'm simply not gonna respond to. The fact you even thought what you saw on the in-game map was all of Caesar's Legion territory definitely shows how capable you are when it comes to arguing these type of things.

Yes the legs are a serious flaw in the Ranger but they are usually at far distances when they kill there enemy but that stills doesnt matter. Also i think they could add armor to there legs to help protect them. I agree that the Centurions armor has flaws and so does the rangers. But how would the CL win with the NCR and mr.houses robots to push them back personnaly i think it would be a pretty fair or NCR winning battle. But with heavy loses.

@Rusina did you not read what i said. I am just focusing on NV alone i know all of them have other regions that they occupy but in NV alone the NCR is bigger thats what im saying.

and like i said Mr. body machine look up to the last thing i said to rusina

So by your logic the NCR is simply better because of how skewed the game is towards them? Because that's what you were getting at.

Simply put, the NCR has no battle plan. More complexly...

The Legion is running a basic gambit which focuses on breaking your opponent rather than annihilating them, this is ineffective for late stage conquest but early on is more effective than wiping them out, much more. Indeed at the point of the Legion meeting the NCR their tactic is the best available for reasons I'll explain later. Let's look at what they would actually do.
This all assumes the Courier lies dead, simply because it's too complicated to incorporate a godly individual with no set allegiance.


OK. The Legion has actual bases at Nelson and Cottonwood Cove across the river, the rest of their forces are to the east of the dam. They have an allegiance with the Khans who will aid them. The Fiends are presumably supplied by them (ties to Khans, general objectives) and if not, by someone targeting the NCR. The Omertas are the final secondary group to join CL.
Without courier intervention the BoS remain isolated, enclave doesn't intervene, Boomers are isolationist, White Glove society is aside, securitrons are not upgraded, The chairmen are neutral/not involved.

So, after taking Nelson, hitting the NCR supply lines, destorying Searchlight and burning Nipton to the ground the Legion prepares for it's actual assault. The average NCR soldier is, by this time, terrified. Between the horror stories on the radio waves, the loss of various camps, the constant pressure and the impending fight many will consider desertion, likely few would.
As the battle initiates the Legion's plans become clear. From Cottonwood cove they attack deep and hard, pushing on any location useable as a rendezvous point. Novac, Mojave outpost etc. The Nelson troops hit Forlorn Hope's remaining men, annihilating the camp. The Fiends attack McCarran and succeed in overrunning it (or at the very least, causing incredible damage), without the monorail any survivors are cut off. The Khans harass any groups moving behind the NCR's line. The Omerta's begin their assault, taking the fight straight to the strip. I presume they will ultimately lose but the damage would be severe, they are well armed and the attack is a surprise, House too concerned with other matters, the families bickering and so on. The dam would fall without a hitch, Oliver's approach is nothing short of a suicidal rush at an enemy who knows no fear. Genius.

With the dam gone they would fall back to Helios One, if the BoS do not stay hidden the NCR would be hit by them, presuming they do the Legion would simply force them out.* Camp Golf would be the last major NCR base but it's proximity to the dam, with Legion forces from the north (having easily overrun the few refugees at Bitter Camps), east and south (whatever could be spared from Nelson) it would be a suicidal stand or a bugout. Saddeningly I get the feeling this is where Hanlon would make his last stand, against overwhelming opposition. Nonetheless, it would fall, the Misfits are useless, the general standard low. The rangers are tough and would take their toll but without support...they are men, a man can do only so much. Golf would fall, the NCR would be in full retreat. The strip is no haven for them, between shut out communications, the omerta's riot, the Kings' no doubt being even more aggressive towards the NCR and the transport from McCarran down they would be best to move on past. McCarran would be either the Fiend's or a stone tomb. Isolated, it would become a fortress in the storm, besieged or simple assaulted until it fell dependent on who was in charge and how much power the Legion had left.

Forlorn Hope is gone, the various ranger stations would debug and fall back to support the retreating main body. Helios One down, Bitter Springs down, Novac under pressure or overrun, the Khans to the west, nothing but desert to the south. The only escape is southwest, back to the NCR's homeland. The NCR army would be routed.

Guessing I would say McCarran would be taken to a man Hsu and his men gone, Bitter Springs would be hit hard and scattered but not exterminated. Golf, the standard troopers would flee, many rangers would not, Hanlon and his men would be killed. Forlorn Hope wouldn't stand an attack at full strength, much less with the distraction of the dam. Exterminated. Novac would likely be overrun or it's defenders forced to retreat. Again, saddeningly I could see Boone finding his death there.
The NCR would be gone. The Strip an easy target, already weak, now crippled. The Boomers would be left until Caesar knew what to do with them (I foresee a slow campaign against them, continual probing until a means is found, the service tunnel would be found, they would be killed). The BoS would be found and killed in some manner, either by forcing their way in or if they feel tactful, sealing them in their tomb.




eta a tl;dr
They would lose all major bases and be forced to rout, survivors (rangers notably) would be pulled to defend their rear as the bulk pulled out.
Think of it like a man with 5 arms. Each grips a desk. Attacking one at a time, the other arms can beat back the attacks, damage is done but nothing horrible. Attack all 5 at once with enough force and they will recoil, unable to regain a purchase they would retreat to the body. This is the NCR. An attack on all fronts removes their holds from under their feet. The escape is left for them.




Without the Courier there is no other turnout, the Legion's attack is a classic tactical manoeuvre designed to rout. It would succeed. Hsu and Hanlon, the only two officers worth a damn, would probably lose their lives too. As would innumerate others, House among them once Caesar grew bored of him, given his attitude to CL I doubt he'd entertain the man...

house cant get his super robots without the courier.
its too bad that the ncrs rangers are the only effectice trooper in the mojave

Yes, the NCR is much more fleshed out than the Legion in NV. I don't see how it makes their army bigger or somehow better.

Alright finished the video, just need to edit it.

I got 5 centurions - 1 armed with a marksman carbine, the rest with thermic lances and super sledges. Then there are 2 rangers.

Not sure you're going to like the results tho. Try it out yourself if you don't believe me.

How did the go from a ranger vs. a centurion, to a group of rangers vs. a groups of centurions, to another [censored] thread about the NCR vs CL and which one is better for the wasteland?

Oh and watch out Stephen cause once that video goes up, the losing side is gonna start flaming how it was a rigged fight and how that wouldn't happen and what not