truz4, on 05 April 2011 - 06:47 PM, said:
So you would've rather turned into the flaming dragon and sacrificed yourself? But then you wouldn't be able to continue the game... I think Beth did it for a reason.
Well i would hope that you could Morph into a Dragon in Skyrim and Defeat Alduin, then you just Morph back to being Human.





i like the way you think, but i'd do it a little different:

ground battle against alduin atop the mountains of skyrim

then alduin's takes off into the air and strikes from above with it's firebreath and other attacks like dragon shouts

in this stage you could shoot him with arrows, magic or time your melee attacks when alduin swoops down.
or if you could turn into a dragon yourself you'd take the fight to alduin himself and have dragon on dragon battle.

as a finishing strike i'd fly above alduin, revert to human form (nord in my case) use a time slowing dragon shout and aim a descending strike with my two handed blade towards alduin's back of the neck, alduin descends at a tremendous speed with my dragonborn holding on to him. after the dragon crashes into the ground my nord rises out of its carcass and absorb alduin's sould/essence.

Pluses and Minuses, lets start.

If you are the hero it would be more rewarding. Also, you had to sit on the sidelines last time, so it would be pretty redundant for it to happen twice so soon in the series. But, if you did end up having to sacrifice yourself, the game would end there and you would not be able to free roam after the game's completion.

If you are not the hero then it would be redundant, because it would be the same thing as oblivion, it would even include a dragon (just like oblivion). But you would be able to watch from a cinematic view. And also, you should be able to continue the game after the final showdown, since you did not die. That thing annoyed me with FO3.

but on a side note: If Alduin is the same as Akatosh, would you not be fighting Martin?

EDIT: Accidental double post, disregard this.

martin didnt become aka, he just became his badass avatar. also the akatosh = alduin bit is a tad more convoluted than that, but yeah lol.

Obviously you never hit Dagon with wabbajack.

Anyays, TES IV kinda stood alone in making you take a back seat, and it worked out poorly. Oblivion screwed up a lot of good things about the TES series. Count on being the sole hero of Skyrim!

Maybe the cost and balance of morphing is that once we morph (in order to save the whole freakin universe from that oversized ego maniac dragon) we can never retrun to our humaniod form. Once a dragon, always damned to be a dragon. lol, don't know why I'm making this post, seems as unlikely as me sprouting Kajit ears just so I can scratch behind them with my argonian tail.

i agree i want alduin to kneel before me broken and vow to leave nirn in peace and leave a disgraced beaten shadow of his former self :mohawk: but no dragon morphing i want to slay alduin with cold steel :toughninja: not by biting and scratching him :facepalm:

It worked out amazingly. Really, how can you bash a game for being unique in that you're not the sole hero doing everything? If anything about games is cliche, its not dragons or magic or any of that, its the fact that the player is always the hero. Always. Other games maybe have a few supporting characters, but never someone who pulls just as much weight as the player themselves.

How many times has the old hero being reborn been done anyway?

In Oblivion you were just a guy out there, thrown into this giant mess in which you had no business with in the first place. None of this you are the only one who can save the world because some piece of paper or some old guy says so. Even thought the emperor does infact say that, its not true. Anyone could run into Oblivion and shut the gates. You actually train Bruma guards on how to do it. There's nothing special about the Champion of Cyrodiil, and I think that's a great part of the story. You're just a person, trying to do the right thing. You weren't destine to save the world, you chose to.

A hero isn't someone who has an elderscroll writen about them saying how they're save the world. That's no hero, that's a job discription. A true hero is someone who, dispite being normal or average or not as strong as the next guy, has the guts to stand up for what's right. Super powers be damned, its not the spandex that makes the hero.

You were Martin's Champion. Hardly nothing


And this is the thread's fatal flaw. If you think we're killing Alduin, you are very very wrong.

well to be fair Martin was a DRAGONBORN. but this time we get to be dragonborn woo :intergalactic:

People keep commenting about not being able to continue after doing battle with the ultimate antagonist as if it were a crime against nature. I think some perspective is needed.

Very well said.
There were some things with the main quest line I didnt like, but the ending is certainly not one of them.

I think its as epic as Azura's speech when you exit the heart chamber.

To be fair, it would be hard to "continue" if time doesn't exist anymore...no future and all that. I have little doubt, we will fight Alduin. But killing him is pretty much out of the question. Unless Beth plans to either make the character the new spirit of time...which could be pushing it, or they have another spirit who's ready to take up the mantle of god of time which I also find unlikely.

Isn't like 90% of the endings of Daggerfall that someone else gets the Numidium and uses it, with you in the sidelines and the one ending where you control the Numidium you get squished. So end-game you not being the total hero isn't unique to Oblivion. And in every Elder Scrolls game you have been working for someone besides yourself.

If you were the one who made who did what Martin did then there would be outrage about not being able to play after the Main quest was finished. Also this is like the only time Martin actually does anything. You were the one who saved Kvatch and Bruma, you were the one who saved his life, and you were the one who stopped Mankar and retrieved the amulet of kings. Without you Martin wouldn't have been able to save Cyrodil so you in fact did all the work.

To be fair, you did do SOMETHING, but yea the big baddie was killed by a plot convinience... really disapointing.

And no Oblivion is not even in the top 10 of best games ever

Never finished Morrowind or Oblivion yet. Played for over 500 hours (both together) but never completed the main stories. So much for not posting spoilers. At least give a warning ahead of time. :sadvaultboy:

Got to do it myself, just to be safe. Got to make sure old alduin doesn't destroy the world and there is no better than doin it youreself

Don't do the main quest. Ignore the amulet. Very simple.

In Oblivion:

- You save the world by guarding an Emperor's last hope and make it possible for him to defeat the Prince of Destruction himself.
- You destroy the legendary Mannimarco, the King of Worms.
- You become the next King of Thieves.
- You end the business of a ruthless mercenary group threatening to undermine the Fighter's Guild.
- You singlehandedly wipe out an entire Dark Brotherhood wing and save the Night Mother herself, becoming a feared Black Hand.
- You destroy the returned Sorcerer-King of the Ayleid civilization.
- You faithfully serve a score of Daedric Lords and is consequently rewarded with several items of immense power.
- Finally, you become the next Sheogorath, the daedric Prince of Madness.

Yeah, not very epic at all. Kinda boring and casual... :facepalm:

I thought the ending of Oblivion worked pretty good; I figured Mankar Camoran was meant to be the final boss and the stuff after that was the post-game epilogue. Maybe it could've helped to give Camoran a more unique appearance so he'd stand out more as the final boss.

It seems to me like it'd diminish the threat a bit if you were able to defeat Mehrunes Dagon himself without special powers or equipment, but they had also already done "banish Mehrunes Dagon with special items" as an ending in Battlespire so probably didn't want to repeat it. Skyrim will probably have some unique explanation as to how you'll be able to stop a god, but I'd guess they won't do "player's ally sacrifices themselves" twice in a row.

Morrowind wasn't like that, in Morrowind, you were the hero, in Morrowind, you were the Nerevarine, the prophecized reincarnation of the ancient hero known as Nerevar who came to save the day. Now, there's been debate as to whether you're actually Nerevar Reborn or just a pawn made to fulfill the prophecy to suit Azura's purposes, but that's beside the point, because one way or another, defeating Dagoth Ur was your job, you weren't just there to help the real hero, so no, it's not really common among the Elder Scrolls series for you to be the hero's helper rather then the actual hero. And we must remember that in Oblivion, it actually sort of made sense, Martin was the charater who was special, being the last heir of Uriel Septim, you were just a random prisoner. While the Emperor does suggest that destiny somehow chose you, since it's never made clear and really doesn't affect anything, I don't pay much attention to that. In Morrowind, the prophecy played a central role in the story, in Oblivion, the Emperor's talk about how "Only you can stand against the Prince of Destruction" and all that was just kind of there, and I never really felt that I did anything that anyone who was skilled enough couldn't do, by comparison, what Martin did was undeniably something only he could do, in this case, it did sort of fit in with the story. It still kind of annoyed me, in part because the conclusion was somewhat underwhelming, and Bethesda did not have to write the story the way they did, but regardless, Skyrim, it seems, will be different. You are the Dragonborn, and everything we've heard paints your character to be some sort of impressive hero, the last Dragonborn and the only one who can stop Alduin. What this tells me is that Bethesda has decided to go back to you being the chosen one. o longer are you just some random prisoner who just happens to be in the right place at the right time, you're the hero because you're the only one who can do what you must do.



In that case, though, it's a bit different, as it's not about saving the world, which the story was in Oblivion, it's about helping whichever side your loyal to gain power. The ending if you choose to control the Numidium yourself seems like kind of a jerk move on the developer's part, though. It's like the developers saying "You just got the artifact of ultimate power and want to use it for your own purposes? Well screw you! You die a horrible death instead!" But regardless, it makes sense that it would be someone else who uses the big stompy robot because, well, you let someone else have it. It's not like in Oblivion where sitting back and watching Martin summon a deus ex machina is the only option, and not because of choices made by your character, even ones you have no control over.



I'd definitely say Mankar Camoran was the real final boss of Oblivion, seeing as you actually got to fight him, and that's part of the problem, because as final bosses go, he was pretty underwhelming. Admitably, Dagoth Ur was too, but I still consider him a step above Mankar Camoran as a boss (I'm talking just as a boss fight here, how he stands as a character is a subject for a different discussion.) because he actually looked unique, not very impressive, but unique. Mankar Camoran just looked like any Altmer in a robe, but Dagoth Ur wasn't quite like any other foe you'd face, there were also special steps you have to go through to defeat him, rather than just hitting him until he dies.

Yeah, I dunno, I may actually fall on the TC's side here. I felt a wee robbed by Martin Sue.

Only in Arena and Morrowind did I ever actually feel like a hero. In Daggerfall you're pretty much a giant tool, and in OB you're a slightly smaller one.

SPOILERS follow for anyone who hasn't finished the game:



Mankar Camoran was underwhelming, I'd agree. But to me the hardest battle of the game was the fighting in the streets of the IC just before Martin's final scene. That battle and the battle for Bruma were among the most memorable challenges we get, IMO. I'm glad that we weren't the ones to summon a deus ex machina and achieve apotheosis. It works better for my character to be a witness to it all, though our characters are still pivotal to the game's plot.