[REL] Necessities of Morrowind : III

» Tue May 08, 2012 2:00 pm

Third thread dedicated to Necessities of Morrowind. The http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1142629-rel-necessities-of-morrowind-30/page__hl__necessities reached the post limit some time ago, but somehow I missed it.

The latest NoM version is 3.03a.
http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=8707

The main package contains:
- The readme: read it, it's an order!!
- "Data Files" folder: this folder contains the NoM esp and the needed meshes, textures, etc. Unpack it to your Morrowind directory.
- "Compatibility patches" folder: this folder contains several esps to improve the compatibility between NoM and many widely used mods. The compatibility section in the readme explains how to use these.
- "Modders pack" folder: this folder contains the modder's pack esp to add NoM resources to your mods.

There are 3 patches that must be applied after installing the main package (first 3.01, then 3.02 and lastly 3.03a). These patches correct a few glitches and add new models and features!

The readme is a bit long, so I'll post here only the credits section to thank everyone that helped me and gave me advice during the WIP process.

Thanks to:
- Abot for letting me use some of his ingredients and for helping with compatibility for his mods
- Aisis & Connary for a couple of textures
- Andtheherois for proofreading and beta testing
- AnOldFriend for letting me use his barrel as a base for my open top water barrel
- Elaura for her help with the new recipe book, her suggestions on how to make cooking more realistic, her ideas on a few new foods, proofreading and beta testing
- Gluby for opening and leading a couple of threads from which I got several great ideas (and to whoever posted in these threads)
- Haplobartow to let me use the TR ingredients
- Kukaahinui for the fantastic work with the new sound effects
- Merunnin for starving herself to record the stomach grumbling sound (you can eat again now…)
- Minamir for the iron stove model
- Muspila for helping with compatibility for his grass mod
- Nicholiathan for the models of 3 new wells and for letting me mess with them
- Rhymer for the illustrations in “Basic Cooking” and in “Famous Drinks of Tamriel”
- Stuporstar for the book covers and beta testing
- Toccatta for helping with compatibility for Morrowind Crafting
- Vurt for helping with compatibility for his grass mods
- Wrye for updating NoM and keeping it online during my years of absence

The fabulous beta testers: Bigsmoke86, Bryman1970, Gaius Atrius, Judassem, Kiteflyer61, Mahpari, Mortimer, Pitney, Pwin, Skaeps.mp3, Sphinx, Steepdene, Uhmatt, Voby Harkwit, Worfox, Zimnel

And all the people who gave me support and advice in every way: adventurous_pilgrim, Afroking, Alexir, Alexxx, bhl, Black Crow King, Blade117, brenas, C.Carjades, CrazyGreggy, Cyrodiil, Danae, DarkDiva, DarkSCR, Dragon32, eltrane, Footnote75, ghanima, GhostNull, Hircine, IronBeast, Jac, Kovacius, latendresse76, lettuceman44, Maholix, Melian, Morovir, Neildarkstar, papill6n, Pluto, Red Eye, Satokia, speaker-60, Tetchy, Tes96, Turns-The-Page, Vrenir, vtastek, Whisper the Wanderer, Woven Trees, Zaarin and everyone else! If I forgot someone, be sure that it was unintentional (or you have already been listed above) and warn me so that I can update this!

The mod has been cleaned with Tesame, Enchanted Editor and tes3cmd so (cross fingers) running it should be safe. Be warned that further cleaning may break one or more features!

Enjoy! :foodndrink:

» Tue May 08, 2012 11:34 am

Just a heads up, Creatures XI is now available, which introduces a handful of new ingredients. I think in my release topic it is was mentioned an updated comptabilty patch would be needed.

» Tue May 08, 2012 1:01 pm

Answering to Praedetor from another thread...

As already stated by abot and Elaura, NoM was built to ensure easy compatibility with mods wanting to use its resources. You can use everything you find in the NoM modders resources folder and esp, provided you don't change the ID and the type of the objects in the CS. Also remember that including NoM items will not make your mod dependant on NoM in any way.

However, NoM changes a few location and so it will inevitably conflict with mods altering the same spots.
The possible solution are two:
- You leave the spots touched by NoM untouched, so that the two mods will fit each other without need for patches. NoM adds only a couple water sources in Suran and a few water sources and a shop in Balmora; it's not so much things and they occupy a small area overall. Personally I think this is the best and easiest solution and it's what I usually do when I want compatibility between my mods and one that's already out.
- If changing those spots is vital to your mod, then you must complete it and when it will be in a stable version a compatibility patch can be built.

As for kegstands, there are different kind of each.
The standard kegstand (for example NOM_kegstand_beer) is the one you find in taverns. The player must pay to get the beer from it or try to steal it, but that could cause a small bounty on him if he/she's caught.
The kegstand whose ID ends with _f is a free one. The player can get free drinks from it and it holds an endless supply.
The kegstand ending with _w is to be placed into the wilds, like smugglers caves. The player gets free drinks, but the supply is limited and once it's empty it doesn't refill.
Lastly, the _r one is like the _f one, but it has a limited supply and then the player must wait some time for it to refill.
You can choose which one to use according to their location.

» Tue May 08, 2012 1:57 pm

Just a heads up, Creatures XI is now available, which introduces a handful of new ingredients. I think in my release topic it is was mentioned an updated comptabilty patch would be needed.

Yes, it was already pointed to me recently. :smile:

I'll have to update the compatibility patch as soon as I get a few free time... and when I stop playing with rocks.

Edit: typo.

» Tue May 08, 2012 11:07 am

Thank you for your descriptive and good answer. Now I need toying with it a little and see what is best. Thank you for letting me use the resources too, very much appreciated as I will need them in Mathi Agea

» Tue May 08, 2012 3:46 pm

I mean to include lets say 5 in a row in a basemant (brewery) how can I assign one of the three to a specific kegstand?

From the CS! :biggrin:

If you need to place exactly this over that in a certain cell, better use the construction set.
Mash replacers are good for random/automatic placement, for instance line

furn_com_kegstand:    NOM_kegstand_beer, NOM_kegstand_wine, NOM_kegstand_emp

will replace first found instance of furn_com_kegstand found in any cell with NOM_kegstand_beer, 2nd found instance of furn_com_kegstand with NOM_kegstand_wine, 3rd found with NOM_kegstand_emp, next with NOM_kegstand_beer and so on...
so you can use Mash replacers mostly for automatic rough changes

» Tue May 08, 2012 8:59 pm

From the CS! :biggrin:

If you need to place exactly this over that in a certain cell, better use the construction set.
Mash replacers are good for random/automatic placement, for instance line

furn_com_kegstand:	NOM_kegstand_beer, NOM_kegstand_wine, NOM_kegstand_emp

will replace first found instance of furn_com_kegstand found in any cell with NOM_kegstand_beer, 2nd found instance of furn_com_kegstand with NOM_kegstand_wine, 3rd found with NOM_kegstand_emp, next with NOM_kegstand_beer and so on...
so you can use Mash replacers mostly for automatic rough changes

I only know the CS, that is why I was confused with the whole mash thing, I surely know how to insert stuff in CS haha

Thank you anyhow

» Tue May 08, 2012 7:44 pm

Yes, it was already pointed to me recently. :smile:

I'll have to update the compatibility patch as soon as I get a few free time... and when I stop playing with rocks.

Edit: typo.

Keep playing with those rocks, they look great.

» Tue May 08, 2012 7:04 am

Yay rocks! Yay NoM! Yay abot!

Praedator and PirateLord, Yay to you too! Now, all of you, get back to work!

Love all your mods, and your attitudes, thank you for making my game so much more than I had ever imagined. The only downside is that I forget there's a mainquest until Jasmine reminds me.

» Tue May 08, 2012 10:33 am

How's about bundling abot's updated http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1329573-problems-with-necessities-of-m/page__view__findpost__p__20047163 for Mash in a forthcoming update?

It'd need to be installed to \Bethesda Softworks\Morrowind\Mopy\Data\Replacers

But couple that with the modder's resources plugin and you've got an easy way to NoMify existing mods to version 3

» Tue May 08, 2012 12:10 pm

I'd recommend \Morrowind\ and drop the gamesas directory. Not everyone keeps that.

» Tue May 08, 2012 10:27 am

Yay rocks! Yay NoM! Yay abot!

Praedator and PirateLord, Yay to you too! Now, all of you, get back to work!

Yes boss, back to the grindstone.

» Tue May 08, 2012 1:32 pm

Yes boss, back to the grindstone.

I was already busy you see

» Tue May 08, 2012 2:03 pm

This mod helps me fulfill my weird desire to "live" in Morrowind instead of actually completing objectives. A+

» Tue May 08, 2012 9:28 am

Love this mod, keep up with the good job !

» Tue May 08, 2012 6:57 pm

Taddeus, the link in your signature is to the old NoM thread. Just thought I'd let you know.

Also, what would be the fastest way to disable eating/sleeping/drinking NoM scripts while using abot's Boats and Silt Striders real time travel mods? It kinda ruins the effect of sightseeing when your stomach is rumbling and message boxes are popping up. I know I can just not run these options, and having food in my inventory with auto eating would work, but I'd prefer to configure NoM the way I like and just shut it off to travel and turn it back on when I get back.

I have no aversion to using the console, so if there is a single command that won't screw anything up, I'd be happy to enter it in, myself.

» Tue May 08, 2012 11:41 am

few points of notes:
*My "full" benifit was often absorbed by The Atronach. This seems to cause issues with timing when that occurs as the cycle gets out-of-wack.
*The BTB comparability mod would be nice if your merchants were made compatable with his methods. I always feel like avoiding them as much as possible because its so easy to abuse them.
*Your readme gives the breakdown on how beverages satisfy thirst, but there is no breakdown on how food satisfies hunger.
*It would be nice to be able to set a time if we have a different plan than 1:30, 1:20 or 1:10 such as 1:5 or 1:1.

EDIT: Just remembered, but since I play with BTB and hotfusion's economy mod, money is not so overflowing and it would be nice to be able to set automated scripts to only eat enough to keep from being hung (the differece between bare bones diet, meager diet and a filling diet).

» Tue May 08, 2012 9:20 pm

This mod helps me fulfill my weird desire to "live" in Morrowind instead of actually completing objectives. A+

Love this mod, keep up with the good job !

Thanks

Taddeus, the link in your signature is to the old NoM thread. Just thought I'd let you know.

Also, what would be the fastest way to disable eating/sleeping/drinking NoM scripts while using abot's Boats and Silt Striders real time travel mods? It kinda ruins the effect of sightseeing when your stomach is rumbling and message boxes are popping up. I know I can just not run these options, and having food in my inventory with auto eating would work, but I'd prefer to configure NoM the way I like and just shut it off to travel and turn it back on when I get back.

I have no aversion to using the console, so if there is a single command that won't screw anything up, I'd be happy to enter it in, myself.

I've fixed my signature, thanks for the head up. I tend to forget that my profile needs to be updated every now and then...
I don't think there's a way to delay NoM script execution during the scenic travels. In theory it's easy, but it must be done in the scripts with a compatibility patch or with a built in compatibility, the latter being better.
I took note of it for the next update. I know I keep delaying the update, but redoing the rocks has turned out being much more time consuming than I thought at first. However, I think I'll start soon working on NoM again.

few points of notes:
*My "full" benifit was often absorbed by The Atronach. This seems to cause issues with timing when that occurs as the cycle gets out-of-wack.
*The BTB comparability mod would be nice if your merchants were made compatable with his methods. I always feel like avoiding them as much as possible because its so easy to abuse them.
*Your readme gives the breakdown on how beverages satisfy thirst, but there is no breakdown on how food satisfies hunger.
*It would be nice to be able to set a time if we have a different plan than 1:30, 1:20 or 1:10 such as 1:5 or 1:1.

EDIT: Just remembered, but since I play with BTB and hotfusion's economy mod, money is not so overflowing and it would be nice to be able to set automated scripts to only eat enough to keep from being hung (the differece between bare bones diet, meager diet and a filling diet).

Thanks for your feedback.
*What do you mean by "full" benefit? Do you mean the "well fed" buff?
*I'll take a look at BTB merchants. If you could explain in what exactly they are different, it would be a great help.
*A table showing how much each food satisfies hunger? It's a good idea, I'll add it to the readme. I think I should explain what foods are eaten first by the automatic scripts, too. I think that many users have trouble understanding it.
*As for having more time speeds, it is already in plan for the update.
*If you want to eat less, simply select a slower time flow. I don't want to add any more options to the configuration script.

Bye

» Tue May 08, 2012 8:50 am

Taddeus, the link in your signature is to the old NoM thread. Just thought I'd let you know.

Also, what would be the fastest way to disable eating/sleeping/drinking NoM scripts while using abot's Boats and Silt Striders real time travel mods? It kinda ruins the effect of sightseeing when your stomach is rumbling and message boxes are popping up. I know I can just not run these options, and having food in my inventory with auto eating would work, but I'd prefer to configure NoM the way I like and just shut it off to travel and turn it back on when I get back.

I have no aversion to using the console, so if there is a single command that won't screw anything up, I'd be happy to enter it in, myself.

I think
set NOM_active_hts to 0
to disable and
set NOM_active_hts to 1
to reenable could work, but I am not sure about the "won't screw anything up" part, so better experiment with a backup game...

» Tue May 08, 2012 12:23 pm

Thanks for your feedback.
*What do you mean by "full" benefit? Do you mean the "well fed" buff?
*I'll take a look at BTB merchants. If you could explain in what exactly they are different, it would be a great help.
*A table showing how much each food satisfies hunger? It's a good idea, I'll add it to the readme. I think I should explain what foods are eaten first by the automatic scripts, too. I think that many users have trouble understanding it.
*As for having more time speeds, it is already in plan for the update.
*If you want to eat less, simply select a slower time flow. I don't want to add any more options to the configuration script.

Bye :smile:

*Yes, "well fed" benefit seems to trigger The Atronach.
*Ah, as I look at it again I realize 90% of it is from hotfusion's merchant mod. There is some items that are relevant rhough. Hotfusion recacluates their mecantilism/speechcraft making is far more difficult to rip them off using a special scripting function.
**BTB decreased the restock to 1 hour.
**Looks like BTB changed the spells they use if they're flagged to use auto-calculate if attacked. I doubt that has much worry there.
*Both would be helpful, although I did note some randomness (or at least it seemed like it) to what was eaten first after having to reload games just prior to eating.
*That's good.
*My concern is with mods that drastically affect economy balance like Hotfusion's and BTB's mods. After a week or 2 most of the money you have will be spent on food for anyone who has auto-calculated scripts. Thirst and sleep aren't an issue as water sources are abundant and even if you don't have a bedroll, finding a place to sleep is relatively easy in most of Morrowind. I am certain the the intent of the mod is not to force players to spend all their time scraping by if they use those type of balancing mods. Perhaps the btb comparability mod could alter the cost of cooked food and make them as far as ingredients in alchemy go poor choices by having negative effects (such as burden) as primary and overall (that's more work though so I don't except that).

EDIT: Looking at Merchants again, it appears I was not quite correct either. It appears I am using BTB's edits to Hotfusion's merchant plugin which adds another layer to the script that makes things more consistant and easier on the player. So it's basically Hotfusion's script from 1.0 with a little bit added to make it work better.

» Tue May 08, 2012 9:12 am

Thanks, Taddeus, thanks, abot! I'll try that out.

» Tue May 08, 2012 9:58 pm

Thanks, Taddeus, thanks, abot! I'll try that out.

Unfortunately, the nom_active_hts variable isn't a good solution. It stops the scripts, but it also resets the hunger, thirst and sleep levels. It is meant to be used in situations where the character, for wathever reason, doesn't have basical necessities anymore (for example if he/she becomes a lich). It's not suited for temporary suspensions.

*Yes, "well fed" benefit seems to trigger The Atronach.
*Ah, as I look at it again I realize 90% of it is from hotfusion's merchant mod. There is some items that are relevant rhough. Hotfusion recacluates their mecantilism/speechcraft making is far more difficult to rip them off using a special scripting function.
**BTB decreased the restock to 1 hour.
**Looks like BTB changed the spells they use if they're flagged to use auto-calculate if attacked. I doubt that has much worry there.
*Both would be helpful, although I did note some randomness (or at least it seemed like it) to what was eaten first after having to reload games just prior to eating.
*That's good.
*My concern is with mods that drastically affect economy balance like Hotfusion's and BTB's mods. After a week or 2 most of the money you have will be spent on food for anyone who has auto-calculated scripts. Thirst and sleep aren't an issue as water sources are abundant and even if you don't have a bedroll, finding a place to sleep is relatively easy in most of Morrowind. I am certain the the intent of the mod is not to force players to spend all their time scraping by if they use those type of balancing mods. Perhaps the btb comparability mod could alter the cost of cooked food and make them as far as ingredients in alchemy go poor choices by having negative effects (such as burden) as primary and overall (that's more work though so I don't except that).

EDIT: Looking at Merchants again, it appears I was not quite correct either. It appears I am using BTB's edits to Hotfusion's merchant plugin which adds another layer to the script that makes things more consistant and easier on the player. So it's basically Hotfusion's script from 1.0 with a little bit added to make it work better.

Many things to look at. I'll check the balancing mods to see what can be done to keep NoM in line with them. However there are people who play without those mods, so i have to take them into consideration, too.
If the food costs too much, you can hunt animals or gather edible plant parts. Cook the raw foods you find in your travels, as cooked food is more satisfying than raw one. All in all, I don't think that NoM prices are too high. Sure, you notice that you're losing a few coins for your nourishment, but it's nothing major compared to weapons, armors, potions and similar apparel. If the mods you're using don't leave you the money for a loaf of bread and a few apples a day, maybe they have "too much success" in balancing.

» Tue May 08, 2012 5:53 pm

It'll work until the update or a better way is found, though.

» Tue May 08, 2012 7:09 am

Many things to look at. I'll check the balancing mods to see what can be done to keep NoM in line with them. However there are people who play without those mods, so i have to take them into consideration, too.
If the food costs too much, you can hunt animals or gather edible plant parts. Cook the raw foods you find in your travels, as cooked food is more satisfying than raw one. All in all, I don't think that NoM prices are too high. Sure, you notice that you're losing a few coins for your nourishment, but it's nothing major compared to weapons, armors, potions and similar apparel. If the mods you're using don't leave you the money for a loaf of bread and a few apples a day, maybe they have "too much success" in balancing. :tongue:

It's not quite THAT bad, but FE, looking at buying some chicken, 10 pieces is anywhere from 3-10% of my savings. When I have close to 2000 or so its not that bad, but I'm usually at the 500-1000 (or lower if I just had to spend a chunk) in money. BTB really cut down the money and in conjuction with Hotfusion's economy mod that basically means even some chicken 10 pieces of chicken (enough to last a few meals) can quickly add up in cost. Sure buying it once is not so bad. But every couple of days...

I haven't really gotten to the point where things should get easier and even then its unlikely to be uncapped as much as most games. Sure I could try going around and selling every cup and dish for chump to mitigate the loss (usually 1), but that again feels not what your mod is intending, ie one shouldn't have to be doing scraping by like that during the early- and mid-game.

I actually thought about getting the stuff to cook, but realized I have no recipes I can use with the ingedients I have.

I ate all mu scuttle so I can't use it to make porriage. Since I spent it on that and the frying pan (and was stupid and accidently saved over the file) I can't buy a pot to stew the few pieces of rat meat I have. The rest, I have no recipes as I've only come across Basic Cooking thus far (that I could afford at the time).

Sorry for the wall of text. I think its probably balanced well in general (i have no real issues with the other parts). I think just incorperating it into a balance mod for BTB or hotfusion (or a combo of both) would suffice. Probably also that chart on food mentioned earlier will help too.

» Tue May 08, 2012 8:57 am

To offer a dissenting opinion, I *love* the fact that money and food are hard to come by. It really adds to the whole "lonely broke outlander who just arrived by ship and has nothing and nobody" vibe. I'd go one step further and say I wish the frequency with which you needed to eat could be adjusted so I would have to eat MORE. It actually fits into my character's backstory. The race is sort of fire and brimstone oriented, with high fire resistance and really warm skin, so it made sense to me that their bodies would be metabolic "ovens," burning calories and using energy very quickly.

But yeah, no complaints so far, really love your mod.