I just realized something.

According to your list, you have free, but limited-use "wild" kegstands, and infinite "pay-per-use" ones for taverns.
Many housemods, including some of mine, include "personal" kegstands for the player.

Will you please include "infinite-use" non-paying kegstands in the CS? (If you haven't already, that is.)
These don't have to be put in-game, just in the CS.
That way modders can still add personal kegstands to their mods, if they want.

Some house-modders like to include beer and wine kegstands in their kitchens and cellars, and without this, they wouldn't work.

Free infinite use kegstands have been added to the activators' list (but not to the game world).

Somebody has other requests?

Update. I added the kriin flesh from Creatures X to the list of supported ingredients. You can now eat it raw or cook it roasted or grilled.
BTW, if someone knows a mean to contact piratelord, can please share it with me?

As always, if someone has any more specific requests, let me know.

any blood pack/bottle for vampire ?

my kind of player only need 2 things , eye candy and an auto eat systerm, looks like you allready done it.
don't forget release a resource pack for modder. I will make sure my mod compatible with this gem like mod.

It would be nice to see the Greenpact be implemented. If your lore is rusty, Bosmer have a greenpact that means they can't harm plants in Valenwood. Some may be very into it, and practice the greenpact everywhere. It's hard to roleplay it when my character often eats plants I've picked up by accident.

A simple section box:

Would you like to honour the Greenpact? (Disable plant eating)

yes
no


The opposite could be quite nice, too. If I could choose to be a vegetarian, and eat no meat.

Also, cannibalism could be quite nice, if possible. If I could chose to eat dead bodies I find. (Perhaps using a spell?) Doing so would give me a bounty if seen (who likes cannibalism?).

Rather than a food satchel (actually, in additon to it), would it be possible to make a covered food "platter" as a scripted eating container? Some players are going to wander the wastes, and eating from a messkit or satchel would be ideal; others are going to dine in fine company at the House Councilhalls, or at their respective guildhalls, and dropping a soiled cloth satchel onto the pristine dinner table would be a bit out of character. On the flip side, I can't picture strolling around Molag Amur with a full set of silver trays, plates, and utensils. Ideally, the mod would need to cover both extremes.

Here's a request for you.

Do you remember the "Pool of Forgetfulness"?
It does nothing in the vanilla game, and previous versions of NoM had it set as a water source, as I recall.

Could you give it a special version of the water script,
that also casts a "Drain Intelligence and Wisdom 5 points for 1440 seconds" spell on the player?
This would cause the PC to have a mild case of amnesia that lasts for one full day, game time.
(At standard time flow settings.)

Thus the "Pool of Forgetfulness" would cause the PC to become temporarily "Forgetful" if used.
So, what do you think?

I think that different dietary styles would be pretty slick, but I could also see it being a possible pain to set it up - but it does seem to be a trend in games that have eating these days to do something along those lines.


I also back this idea 100%, for much the same reasons mentioned here already


I also think this is a great idea

Anyways, been a moment since I commented at all in here, but things look great. Can't wait for the release!

My suggestion here would be a variant of the waterskin for carrying blood. Might need an occasional blood pool to fill it from similar to a water source.




Strictly vegetarian/Carnivore/Cannibal sounds like good options to me. The cannibal option would make 'human meat' a sort of black market item, but I'd like to see more than just human meat. I figure since the blood of all the humanoids is red, then the meat would all look the same, but Mer meat (including Orsimer/Orc), Argonian meat, and Khajiit meat would be an excellent addition.



I think it would be cool if the player's journal was temporarily inaccessible for the duration, but I don't know if that would be possible to script.


Come to think of it, I'm really beginning to like the idea of a Black Market add-on. Have certain underground food merchants who deal in blood and other humanoid food products. A few suggestions might be moonsugar-flavored Khajiit milk, eye of Argonian, tailmeat of Argonian, Argonian eggs (or do they have live birth?). Another suggestion just for filler: tusk of Orc (sold to be ground up and used as an aphrodisiac, perhaps). There are some resources for brains and eyeballs around. But these aren't requests, just musings.

Are you all trying to delay the release?


I'm reluctant to touch vampires. I'm not an expert of the way vampires and werewolves work in general, so in NoM I tried to keep a low profile with them. When you become a vampire, your hunger, thirst and sleep are reset and the scripts stop checking for them. I suppose a vampire doesn't have these necessities. For vampire-exclusive needs, there are many mods out there that deal with them.
I personally never used vampire mods, but I'm nearly sure there's one out there adding blood bottles.
However, I'll put in future plans a revision of the vampire/werewolf section, if it turns out that it's needed for some reason.


I'd do it in a more generic way. Something like: "Do you want to have eating limitations?" "Eat everything" "Carnivore" "Vegetarian". Only thing, I must see how much this complicates the scripts, I don't want to go crazy!
Cannibalism can be fun. Haha! If I find an esay way I'll do it... After all the human flesh ingredient is already out there. I can ever make the cannibal have a bonus if he/she eats human flesh, to compensate for the risk of being reported to the guards. The big problem with this is that dead NPCs don't drop human flesh...


Yes, good point. I'll have to throw in another model. However, while the satchel is sold everywhere, the silver platter will be sold only by a few selected merchants.


The idea is good. I didn't touch it in the previous release since it's used by the Illuminated Order mod and I didn't wanted to create an incompatibility. But I can change it this way and then make an Illuminated Order patch. Since I'm there, in that patch I'll make it so that if you become a lich, the need for food, drinks and sleep will stop (like it is now for vampires).

I probably ninja'd you, Taddeus. Did you see my idea of the Black Marketeers?

That's a great idea!
Could you do the same for Lichcraft if needed?

Lichcraft also lets you become a lich, but it goes into far greater depth for roleplay and features.
Doesn't do everything else that IO does, though.
(There's a patch that makes the two mods compatible, so you can become a lich with IO, then use Lichcraft for gameplay.)

It would be good to have a seperate patch for Lichcraft, as not everyone uses them together.
(I liked the idea of playing as a lich, but since I don't play without NoM, I couldn't. I look forward to trying it now, though.)

Well, this is a lot of work... new NPCs, new models. The idea is good, but it looks more like a new plugin than a last minute addition. I'd like to release a beta in a week or so. Maybe in a future addon.


After the release, I'll take a look at the mod that can be easily NoMified.

A compatability patch for Silgrad tower would be nice. I spent an hour searching for some edible food. Everything is custom "dark bread" or whatnot. It does use NoM wells, however.

Also, Morrowind Crafting has various foods and a cooking skill. If we could somehow have a compatability patch for that, it'd be awesome.

I'm not sure what the vendors sell there, but Tamriel Rebuilt may require a patch. I know it doesn't use NoM wells, which can be difficult for those who can't use the utility to make them NoMable.

I understand it can take forever to patch, I'm just suggesting all you may want to take a crack at.

Well, keep the suggestions for compatibility coming, but keep in mind that I can't patch everything.
Let's see...
As for Silgrad Tower, NoM uses some foods originated from that mod (watermelon, banana). The dark bread should turn to corn bread if you load NoM after, but I've to check better.
For Morrowind Crafting I've already completed a compatibility patch that will make its foods, bedroll and campfires work with NoM.
All the new foods from Tamriel Rebuilt are already in NoM and can be eaten and used for cooking.

Update on werewolves!!
Until now they worked this way: while you're in wolf form, your hunger/thirst/sleep will increase normally, but you won't receive penalties from them. The penalties will be applied all togheter when you turn back to human form. So yes, you can be hit by severe penalties (even death) if stay in werewolf form too much.
The new part is: when you kill an NPC in werewolf form, your hunger and thirst will lower, since you'll eat part of his flesh and drink his blood. Expect nothing drastic, but it should help. The fun part is that you can get the "Well fed" buff while you're werewolf, too.
The best part is that this new feature only uses NoM scripts, so the chance of conflicts with werewolf mods should be zero.

The werewolf kill-feeding is only for NPCs, right?

Sabregirl made a mod that allows werewolves to feed on creatures as well. (SG-MW-ecology-WW)
It can be found here: http://www.sabregirl.com/mods/creature.html

Could you make this feature compatible with this? (Or handle it through NoM?)
That way werewolf players can optionally feed on creatures too.

Sorry, this is not possible. I should attach a script to every creature, which is likely to create conflicts with the whole universe.
Moreover, since the werewolf hunger for blood in Bloodmoon asks you to kill an NPC and not a creature, I'm assuming werewolves like only human/elven/orc meat for their meals.

Since I'm going out for a couple of days, I'll leave here some thoughts.

Vegetarian/Carnivore
This is coming along pretty well. Only, I've doubts on what kind of foods they can and can't eat. Some are pretty evident, some don't. A couple of examples.
- Should a vegetarian eat foods which are cooked with eggs (like pies) and milk (like cheese)? I think the answer is yes, but I'm not sure.
- Should a carnivore eat foods which are cooked with eggs and milk?
- Should a vegetarian eat foods which are cooked with lard? No, you'll say. Even if lard is the only animal ingredient among 6 vegetable ones?
- Should a carnivore eat things like lemon fish (fish cooked with lard and lemon juice)?
- Wickwheat, saltrice and corn flours are off-limits to a carnivore, right? So... no bread, pies, cookies...
And before someone asks it... no, I'm not going to differentiate the recipes for vegetarians and carnivores, like a sweetroll without lard or lemon fish without lemon.

Cannibal
As I said, the idea is fun, but I see it more like a separate addon than something to add directly to NoM. I'm not including it, at least not in beta.
Moreover, it would require a lot of work, but how many players will realistically use it? Now don't tell me that you all dream a cannibal PC or I'll be scared... :bolt:

Taverns
I could do hunger, thirst and sleep grow at a slower pace when the PC is in a tavern, restaurant, Food Route outpost. This would be an incentive to stay in taverns when you've to wait for a long time (hours or days). What do you think?

Bye

Well, I think that my two cents on this one goes something like this. I think, in regards to options, these might be better if offered like this:
What type of diet do you adhere to?
Vegan: Veganism is a philosophy and lifestyle whose adherents seek to exclude the use of animals for food, clothing, or any other purpose. Vegans endeavor not to use or consume animal products of any kind. (kind of how you were depicting Vegetarian above - avoid lard, eggs, milk, etc).
Vegetarian: Vegetarianism is the practice of following a plant-based diet including fruits, vegetables, cereal grains, nuts, and seeds, with or without dairy products and eggs. A vegetarian does not eat meat, including red meat, game, poultry, fish, crustacea, and shellfish, and may also abstain from by-products of animal slaughter such as animal-derived rennet, found in some cheeses, and gelatin (basically, this could be a little bit more forgiving of a version to the Vegan option, allowing a few more products).
Carnivore: A carnivore is an organism that derives its energy and nutrient requirements from a diet consisting mainly or exclusively of animal tissue, whether through predation or scavenging (dead on the head of what you described above - no bread or things of this nature available for consumption).
Omnivore: This would be something akin to the default setting where the PC will eat a little bit of everything, and the standard diet among most humans in the world today.

If these four options could be given as a general configuration choice right after character generation like the other items that need such a choice before play. As mentioned, the Omnivore option could act as the Default option in regards to the type of diet used. Granted, this could make things a little bit more complicated, since it does cover more areas of a potential dietary plan than what you had initially prescribed. If you wanted to just go with the options you initially listed, I would still base the diets off the descriptions I provided for each (as those would be the universally accepted definitions of the dietary structures).

I would have to agree that while this could be slick for completeness sake, it seems like it is a bit much to me (and also something people wouldn't be using all that often I imagine). I think that such an extreme form of diet should be left untouched by NoM, or if it is handled, then it should be incorporated directly into the other dietary setups that it fits to (as most Cannibals still do eat other food as well, they just also happen to practice eating their own kind as well). As such, if it is later included, the needed edible ingredients could be added in on the appropriate diets (Omnivore and Carnivore), and then just leave it up to the player if they will allow the PC to eat such things on their own accord.

This could be a pretty slick idea, and one that I think fits the scope of NoM perfectly. This adds in that nice touch of immersion while not making things too hindering on the player. I know many have complained in the past about being stricken with penalties or death after long wait periods, so this would counter that issue very well (as one could assume you are at least snacking from time to time at the tavern).

Here's my take on the issue (for whatever it's worth)

It depends on how you define the two. Usually a vegetarian is defined from a morality or ethics standpoint while a carnivore is defined more by a naturalist definition. It's unlikely you'll be worrying about herbivores (the naturalist equivalent of the vegetarian) or people that refuse to eat plants from a moral or ethical objection - except for The Arrogant Worms (the group that sang the satirical song "Carrot Juice is Murder")

Typically, a vegetarian doesn't eat anything that requires the death of an animal. Eggs and milk are usually fine. Vegans (a much stricter variant) won't eat anything that is produced by an animal, so even eggs and milk are prohibited. Since lard comes from the death of an animal, foods prepared with lard wouldn't be eaten. However, those same foods prepared with butter would be an acceptable substitute for non-vegans.

A carnivore, on the other hand, consumes primarily meat and doesn't care for plants. However, since the objection isn't an ethical one, the prohibition should be concerned with the amount of plant matter, not the presence of it. Plants used as a spice (like your lemon fish example) should be acceptable while foods that have a high plant content (like a BLT) would not.

Since mammals are defined by the ability to produce milk and include both herbivores and carnivores, both should be able to consume milk or cheese or foods that have them as ingredients.

I would say the better standard would be the Greenpact someone mentioned, since it's the only mention of such restrictions, it should probably be the guide for the carnivore and the vegetarian should probably be the mirror image. Taddeus, you can't plan on every possible type of diet, but if you want to, you can allow for the extremes of roleplaying.

As such and for simplicity's sake: Carnivore (greenpact): Absolutely nothing which comes from plants, ever. Not as flavoring, not as flour, not as any directly consumable ingredient (salt is OK, but sugar isn't, depending on where is lore you are getting sugar from). Clearly they have to eat something and many animals eat plants, but that's beside the point. Milk, cheese, and animal (and mineral) products only.

The mirror image, Vegetarians, would eat no meat, milk, cheese, eggs or lard, or any dish containing them.

I know this is just a reiteration of what others have said, but my opinion lies in my belief that if someone is roleplaying a Greenpact Elf, they're probably abiding by it to the letter. If you have the extreme that plants cannot be eaten, whether it kills the plant or not, you might as well not worry about whether the animal is destroyed or not.

I stand corrected. I had missed the greenpact reference, so it turns out that it isn't at all unlikely that you'll encounter players that refuse to eat plants for ethical reasons. That does, indeed, change things. I was thinking more along the lines of khajiit and argonian players choosing to role-play natural carnivores as opposed to players that role-play characters that don't eat plants because of religious or moral obligations. I guess it all boils down to how many different options you want to allow, keeping in mind that each one involves a significant amount of work in your dietary scripts.

I suppose if we want to stay just within the realm of Elder Scrolls lore in regards to diets, rather than using real world examples, then that would make things a little bit easier since there would only be three I know of:

Sweet-Tooth (Khajiit): the foods invariably being sweet; candies, cakes, puddings, and sugar-meats are the staples of the diet.

Green Pact (Bosmer): prohibits the use of any wood or vegetable matter; requires being strict carnivores; use bone, animal, and insect products widely; also utilizes cannibalistic food sources.

General Diet (Others): Will eat food as normal with no special practices involved in the process beyond personal taste.

That would just be three diet options, and they all confine to lore as well. They would also be a bit unique in comparison to the way that real world diets are setup: Sweets, Meats, or Anything.

From a purely nutritional standpoint, a carnivore could technically eat plants, but wouldn't be able to get enough nutrients out of them to be able to survive. Having a carnivore eat something like a BLT would be marginally acceptable, as the bacon would be a valid source of nutrition and the rest would just be useless "filler".

Vegetarians would normally have the reverse issue, except for those who avoid the consumption of meat for purely ethical reasons. In that case, the Player should be entirely responsible for maintaining the strict interpretation of the rule, since a Vegan would actually derive nutrition from meat products (being an omnivore from a biological standpoint), even if it violated their ethical code.

A Bosmer following a Green Pact rule would still be considered an omnivore, but would be ethically bound to avoid eating anything with plant material. The enforcement of the rule would again need to be done by the player, because the mer would biologically be capable of eating either plant or animal.

Cannibalism could be handled in the same manner. Any of us could "technically" digest human meat, but (hopefully) would find it too repulsive to do so. Making special rules to allow or not allow it would be unrealistic, although I can picture a case where some characters or people would rather starve to death than eat human flesh, so "automatic eating" of human meat probably should be disabled by not including them in that script.

I can't recall... was it this project or Gluby's where it was discussed that food would automatically take precedence over raw ingredients and that alchemical reagents would only be eaten under duress (very high hunger levels)?

If that is implemented here, the simplest solution to controlling the role-played diet of the character is to simply keep the foods in inventory that the character should be eating. If the player is a vegetarian, then why are they carrying around a knapsack full of the Hound and Rat? Characters that are obeying the Green Pact shouldn't have a supply satchel full of baked potatoes and chef salads. If they're not carrying these items in their inventory, no matter how basic the food scripts are, the character won't be eating them, right? My initial thought was that the automation of the food scripts would preclude the player from making these decisions without special scripting and dietary options, but the simple fact of the matter is that the player has the ultimate control simply by choosing which foods to carry around with them.

And lore-wise, if a bosmer following the Green Pact is starving and on the verge of death, do they eat a trama root or choose to die? Having alchemical reagents consumed only as a last resort would allow people to carry reagents for alchemical purposes that they normally wouldn't consider actually eating. Then again, is it any less unethical for a bosmer following the green pact to consume a potion that uses a plant as a reagent than it is to eat a meal that uses it as an ingredient?** If they're prohibited even from using plant matter as alchemical reagents, then there's no reason to be carrying them in the first place, unless it's to complete a particular quest.

For that matter, would a bosmer following the Green Pact be allowed/willing/able to place bittergreen petals into an NPC's stew to poison them?

** I ask this because some orthodox rabbis will certify even gelatin from a pig as being kosher because the process of releasing the collagen is "transformative", which is a rationalized way of saying it's no longer pork. I would presume that alchemy, being a magical process, is no less transformative.