Eh, I don't have a single one of these!
Let's see...
Butter: No animal milk in Morrowind, so no butter. There is imported cheese since it can be preserved much longer than butter. You can replace it with lard, which is present in NoM.
Chocolate: I never saw chocolate in any of the TES games.
Of the other ones, I could add something after the release as a modder resource. I especially like the idea of carrots, graqes, pumpkins and venison.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1083981-wip-necessities-of-morrowind-22/page__view__findpost__p__15911098 - I may be adding a couple more, but this is essentially it. This list doesn't include however the foods from other mods that will be supported, like the ones from TR.


I don't know if I'll make an ESM. At this stage I'm probably inclined to not doing it since I have several doubts.
First, while I obviously like the idea of other mods compatible with NoM, I don't want to force them to depend on NoM.
It's also a compatibility problem for all the NoM-compatible mods built over the years. If I keep everything in the ESP these mods will be auto-updated simply loading the new NoM after them. If I make an ESM, on the other hand, the old ESPs will load after it and get no updates at all, retaining the old models, stats, etc.
Then, there are the update problems that DarkDiva and turns-the-page refers to.

Even worse: most NoMified mods use the NoM Compatibility pack which means that they contain inoperable script stumps that would overwrite the ESM's functional scripts thus effectively breaking all NoM functionality. Not a desirable prospect if you ask me. I think NoM should remain an ESP.

About updating ESMs: what is the big problem with it? I know that ObjectIndex and ModIndex entries might be renumbered thus leading to incalculable effects, but ESPs basically suffer from the same effect, and it's nothing that Mash couldn't fix. Am I missing something here?

I implemented the variable eating and drinking schedule I talked about in an old post.
When you activate a bed or bedroll to sleep you've a new option: "Change the eating and drinking schedule". This is for choosing at what time of day you will be checked for food and water and, if you don't have them, the consequent penalties will be applied. You have three choices:
- Normal (lunch at 1pm, dinner at 9 pm)
- Explorer (lunch at 8 am, dinner at 10 pm)
- Nocturnal (lunch at 6 am, dinner at 6 pm)
Choosing the schedule according to your gameplay will avoid penalties hitting you in the middle of a combat or in other dungerous situations.
Note that you can change the schedule only once a day, so choose wisely!

Yeah, most of those would definitely be imported. I'm working on a mod that is more similar to Oblivion (mainland) than Vvardenfell. It has cattle, for one - which is why I was hoping for some slots that could be filled with other mods.

The chocolate isn't that big a deal (junk food), and the avocados and butter I could live without, but I would really like to see the other veggies make the cut - especially the graqes, carrots, pumpkins, and lettuce; since I have those growing on the farm. A bit selfish, I know - but those are staples that I could easily see those being imported from the mainland.

Even so, I'm really looking forward to the next version of NoM. Looks like a great update of a classic mod.

Just a little curious here, but could the same be done for a sleep schedule check as well? This would allow people to have just about any style of play they wanted while getting the most out of the mod. Could then just shorten the option to "Change Schedule" and each option would adjust the eat/drink/sleep checks at the same shot, putting everything in line together. Personally I would see this as the ideal setup for things, if it is possible, but that is also just my opinion I suppose.

I already adjusted sleep, but it seems I forgot to talk about it here. Sleep has no more a schedule and grows hourly. You can sleep during the day to be free of burdens the following night.

That is a great improvement for thief like characters or vampires

I have a problem with current Nom version, just an oddity, I can't make tisanes. I did the quests associated with tisanes and got the book and the advanced recipes, but every time I equip or try to use a tisane pot, I receive the message "you don't know any tisane recipes". Any clue about it? :shakehead:

Awesome - it is very well possible you could have mentioned it at one point and I missed it as well, it happens

I kinda solved my tisanes problem setting manually the scripts to one in the console.
Will the tisanes preparation be improved in some way? I mean, you prepare one, you drink one, and never see the "tisane cup" in your inventory.
Would be nice to see the prepared cup the same way you see your prepared omelettes or juices.

Glad you solved the problem. I was suggesting you to use the console, but since you already did it...

I worked on camping, based on a suggestion found in the old NoM threads and inspired by the mod "Find Shelter" by Danjb.
These are the new features I put in:
- You can't light a campfire in bad weather (rain, sandstorm, snow)
- If you already have a campfire, bad weather will douse it
- You can put out your bedroll in bad weather, but you can't sleep in it
- If you're sleeping outside and the weather turns bad, you'll be woken up and you'll have to find shelter (a cave, a dungeon, your home, a tavern, ...) to continue sleeping

Tents can protect you from bad weather. There are essentially 2 possibilities.
If the tent is a closed one, it has a door which lead you to his interior. In this case you'll be fine, since the checks for bad weather are done only in exterior cells.
If, on the other hand, the tent is an open one, I'm adding a global variable "NoM_shelter" which, if set to more than 0, will bypass the weather controls. So you'll have simply to attach on your tent a very short script (of which I'll add a copy in the compatibility pack) which sets NoM_shelter to 10 if the player is close enough.
As it is now, the NoM_shelter check will allow the player to use the bedroll, but not the campfire. Should I make the campfire usable too if you're close to a tent?

Note that I'm not adding tents in NoM, so I'm putting that variable and the checks in my scripts exclusively for other modders that may want their work to be compatible.

You wouldn't want to build that campfire inside the tent for obvious reasons, so it wouldn't be protected. Sleeping in a tent in the rain makes sense, building a fire in the rain, just because you pitched a tent nearby, doesn't.

That depends on the type of tent. There is at least one mod which adds ashlander-style tents and they very clearly have fires inside. I'm sure these tents are considered interiors, but I would absolutely make the settings customizable, _Taddeus_. As in during configuration, the PC can choose whether or not to allow fires/sleep in bad weather and/or inside tents. If the player chooses to drop their campfire on top of their tent, regardless of whether or not that would look silly to us or break immersion, I think that should be their decision.

Actually, you can start a fire in a light rain, so I wouldn't disallow it for just a rain shower. I would disallow/douse a fire in a thunderstorm.

Ditto for snow. Especially if you have the fire before it starts snowing, its not too hard to keep it going as long as you have a decent wood supply. Maybe put a percentage chance for the fire to douse while in moderate weather? Or maybe that's too much bother, I don't know.

I'd like to keep it as simple as possible, both on the scripting and on the player side, so I prefer not to add differences between rain and snow types.
I think that I'll leave things as they're now for tents. With exterior tents you'll be able to use the bedroll but not the fire, in interior tents you'll be able to use both like Ashlanders do.
Finally, I can make the whole thing turned on/off by a question in the configuration script, like other parts of the plugin. If someone doesn't want to care about weather, he/she can simply disable this part.

Since I already did water pumps for the dunmer stongholds, I tought I could add to them a cooking spot. So I built this corner fire pit that uses the stronghold's texture pattern. Note that the fire pit itself, when activated, works like a grill, so you won't need to buy one if you live in one of the strongholds. I added the fire pit only to Marandus for now; I must put it in other strongholds too, but I'm still choosing which ones. Preferences?
http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy227/_Taddeus_/NOM/DunmerFirePit01.jpg?t=1277451193
http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy227/_Taddeus_/NOM/DunmerFirePit02.jpg?t=1277451195
http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy227/_Taddeus_/NOM/DunmerFirePit03.jpg?t=1277451189 - With pitfire and water pump. I had to move a chair to make room for the fire, but I think the effect is good.

Last question: hurting fires, what do you think of them? When I built NoM I put them in to allow compatibility with another hurting fires mod. But from reports it seems they are problematic, with companions and NPCs that get killed by them. In the next version I could leave the feature in, but disabled by default.

Bye

I think the fire pit looks pretty slick, and should work as a pretty nice addition.

In regards to the fires hurting script, personally, I tend to use it (I like it fairly well), but I am open to it being set either way and just having the option to enable it in the configuration. I suppose since it is a decent sized change that isn't necessarily in the direct scope of the mod (per se) that having it off by default may be the best option, though.

Great! It really makes sence! (for example, my RL job on NPP has a shift-based schedule so I often have to sleep during the day before/after the night shifts :sleep2: )
Some people may agree that this hourly method would also make a good and reasonable feature if added to hunger/thirst calculations as a fourth option. :whisper:

As I never travel with companions, hurting fires has been always ok to me, because it adds realism to the scene. A companion must be exposed many times to any fire to get killed by it, they don't take too much vitality. Just my opinion.
Tents protecting from bad weather it's a must for any roleplaying character Thanks for that
As for the tisanes thing, any possibility to make them carryable?

My only critism about NOM is, I was confused. Should I eat it myself or is it happening automatically. Noises and penalties happening all the time where I have food in my inventory, confusion on if I'm hungry or not. If I am eating enough or do I need more. Stuff like that.

My solution:

Preemptive eating.


This is my way to have regeneration and sleep necessities at the same time realistically. It needs some more detailing but I guess you get the spirit. Now I think about adding food and drink to the system. A new bar,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CG0OkQIw1Oc, will show your stomach/food-drink-need. You need to fill it enough(%30 perhaps?) to have the benefits of regeneration. As long as you stay above a certain limit, you can consider yourself satiated.

Maybe MGE version can have this.

I'm fine with the hurting fires, only had one companion die of it ever and I had a recent save to reload from. Usually if we teleport into a small space and someone lands in a fire - I move, they move then I heal them and get down to business. I've yet to come across an NPC already dead from fire though I've come up to several that are standing in it nonchalantly when I arrive.

Well, it seems that hurting fires have their fans too.
As I said, I'll keep them, I will only disable them by default.


I want to keep a schedule for eating and drinking because I think that removing it would make the whole thing too chaotic. Keeping track of sleep is easy, but keeping track of sleep, hunger and thirst togheter can be confusing when they start to happen at different times.


It seems that I somehow missed this question... Tisanes are something that you make and drink on the spot on purpose, to make them feel different from alchemy.


Preemptive eating will be an option when I'll implement manual eating. A message will say that you'll need to eat soon and then you'll be able to choose what to eat.
As of now you have text messages, sounds and spell effects applied on you to check if you're hungry or thirsty. We can improve this with a specific on-screen indicator when I'm done with the update.
Sleep and regeneration: interesting, but I don't know if bleeding and healing should be part of NoM. However a separate mod that reads the sleep variable from NoM can be done to handle this.

Great. :foodndrink: I am about to create some custom test shaders to be used with diseases. I don't know how to do yet, I have to learn it. I hope I have time.

Here is another idea. When you get a common disease, if you don't cure it but feed yourself good and correctly, going through its stages, you can build a natural immunity to it. But if you use a potion, that would break it. It could be balancing.

PS. I am a fan of hurting fires too.

Yeah, if you can make weariness, hunger, and thirst some kind of percentage or even just a number with a "danger threshold," then someone can add in any kind of bar or icon to show it.

I see I'm in the minority, but I don't use the fire hurting option. I once had a mod which added a few lighting/landscaping details like a nice fire in the middle of Seyda Neen; I don't run it anymore, but the first time I saw someone (Fargoth, I think) standing in the fire and being hurt, but not moving or acting like it, it just threw me out of the game immersion-wise. On the other hand, I *really* like the way the scripts are configurable. Fire hurting should absolutely be an option, just like fires in tents and weather affecting campfires. What is immersion-breaking for one person might be completely reasonable to someone else.

The corner firepit and water pump look great!

Don't worry, I haven't forgotten about what I offered to do . . . I just ended up with a bot more r/l than I am used to this month. I'll have it for you soon, I promise.

May I suggest a little fire hurting configuration extension?
0. fires do not hurt
1. fires hurt player and NPC/Creatures
2. fires hurt player only

adding option 2 should be easy enough, and versatile