Bear cheese!

Wolf Ice cream... Yummm...

I imagine that scratch marks are a permanent feature of your countenance.

Yeah your right. Scuttle is Vvardenfells cheese. its made from some insect flesh.of which i dont know. but its some beetle so probably shalk. Also i think Hound Jerky would be nice. theres scrib Jerky so why cant you just cut up strips of hound meat and smoke it till it dries and becomes jerky?

New style icons could be a good idea, maybe they'll make clearer the purpose of the coloured box.
I can obviously make the meshes myself, but I don't want to add too much. I think that NoM as it is now has a good variety of food items; a few more are ok, especially if aimed at reducing the local food/imported food unbalance. A huge amount of new foods and recipes won't add much to innovation and variety of the mod and will result confusing more than anything else. With that in mind, if other mods already add what is needed (or a part of it), I could use them.
Example: If Tamriel Rebuilt adds new foods and some of them are what NoM needs, why don't grab them (with permission of course)? This will improve the compatibility of the 2 mods and make them more consistent when used togheter.



Sleep scripts can be improved in the way sleep is detected. Wow, I didn't open those scripts for years, I'll find lots of spiderwebs in there...
Fatigue effects too can be changed to some extent. As you said, bleeding is too much combat oriented for Necessities.



Perishable foods are an idea I played with back in the days when I realized NoM2, but this has a great drawback. I should put a script on the foods, and that wuold make them stack no more in inventory which is ugly (I tried that too several years ago but my inventory became such a mess that I removed it immediatly).


On compatibility with other mods: from this and from other threads I see people asking for compatibility with several widely used mods, from aestethic ones (grass, tree replacers) to gameplay ones (MC, MCA, Abot guars and so on). Compatibility is a thing I always aim for when modding and I'll try to make NoM blend with other people's work the best I can. And be sure that I will not make it less compatible than now anyway.
But please keep in mind that I created NoM with precise ideas on how it must work and what it must contain. I keep the majotiry of these ideas still now, after so much time. There are things that can't be added to it, and things that can't be removed.

Well, time for some (editor) screenshot I guess...

http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy227/_Taddeus_/NOM/Image7.jpg?t=1269814407 - Water surface will be still inside and in clear weather, animated in other conditions
http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy227/_Taddeus_/NOM/Image10.jpg?t=1269804489

Hope you like them!

Me like! Bentornato, maestro!

the barrel looks nice.

the beef looks like Watermelon, need improved.

A huge amount of new foods and recipes won't add too much fine.
yes, make it simple. i think the amount of recipes totail less than 10 is enough. actually , i only use some very simple one , such as "bake meat, bake fish....." during years with your mod.

As said, the water barrel looks nice but the beef is a little too pink. If it's uncooked, it should be more red.

When we were discussing this project with gluby, the idea was presented to make food alchemy items, and thus the food would be stackable because it was itself unscripted.

Most people it seemed wanted to use the spell effect "Remove Curse" as the cue for the eating script because Remove Curse is unused by the game. I think however that at least a few people have made mods that use remove curse and that there would be some conflicts as a result.

I opted to go with unlikely combinations of low-use spell effects... I mean I really don't care that much if someone gets a free meal because theyare being effected by odd spell combinations. It wouldn't happen often if unintentional in any case.

So, I wrote a global script (which I will include here that you may use all or parts of if you wish) that detects particular spell effects and applies a value to lessen hunger.

This system could also detect spoiled food simply by adding another unusual or less used spell effect that is unlikely to naturally occur in game play.

So, as is the script runs if the player is effected by restore skill and detect animal at the same time for a two second period. If we addin Cure Paralyzation for instance to signified having eaten spoiled food, the PC would have to be curing paralyzation while restoring skill and detecting animal simultaneously. If we add in a fourth effect, we could make it even less likely that the player will accidentally get food poisoning.

Anyway, here's the script. It's still an alpha from my point of view and needs some tweaking and testing:

Begin PotionFoodScript;' A script to detect ingestion of a potion for the purpose of satisfying hunger.;' The potion in this instance will be based on the effect "Restore Skill" with;' a duration set to 1 for a snack, 2 for an entree, and 4 for a meal.short eatingshort eating2short RSeatingNowshort DAeatingNowshort eatwhatfloat foodtimer;'globals: hungryIf ( MenuMode == 1 )		ReturnendIf;'check for spell effectset RSeatingnow to ( "player"->GetEffect, seffectrestoreskill )set DAeatingnow to ( "player"->GetEffect, sEffectDetectAnimal )If ( RSEatingNow == 1 )	If ( DAEatingNow == 1 )		set eating to 1		set eating2 to 1	endIf	endIfIf ( eating2 == 1 )		set foodTimer to ( foodTimer + Getsecondspassed )endIf;'check spell effect durationIf ( Eating ==1 )	If ( foodtimer >= 1 )			Set Eatwhat to (eatwhat + 1 )			set foodtimer to 0	endIf	If ( RSeatingNow == 0 )			set foodTimer to 0			set eating to 2	endIfendIf;'calculate new hunger result and reset the scriptIf ( Eating == 2 )		set hungry to (hungry - (eatwhat * 2 ))		set eatwhat to 0		set eating to 3		set eating2 to 0		returnendIf;'check for hungry less than 0, and reset it if it isIf ( Eating == 3 )	If ( hungry <= -1 )			set hungry to 0			set eating to 0	endIfendIf				End PotionFoodScript

Other considerations are chanign the potion sound, and how or whether visual and audio spell effects should be curtailed.

Just something for consideration, eh?

I'll try to make it more red then.



Yes, I'm reading the threads opened by Gluby and there are some very interesting ideas in there! Unfortunately, I have to say that the alchemy food and the whole eating on demand thing is something that doesn't excite me too much, for several reasons.
The first is that NoM basic idea (the reason that firstly moved me to create the mod) is automatic eating. I can understand that some people may prefer manual eating for greater realism, but there's also a large number of players that like the mod as it works now. I'll try to explain: the main aim of Necessities is to be played along with the game while being as less intrusive as possible. You buy or cook food, and the mod does everything else without asking you to open inventory, click, etc. One or two clicks and inventory parses may be fun in the beginning but they'll become an annoyance for smooth gameplay if you use the mod for an extended period of time. That's the same reason for which cooking is semi-automated: you choose only the recipe and the mod seeks the ingredients and removes them from inventory.
Other reasons for which I'm not inclined towards manual eating is that the game engine is not very good at detecting ingredients/alchemy usage. So making manual eating means changing aspects of the game not directly related to the mod (potion sounds, etc) and making choices that can create conflicts or move "unrealism" on a different plan.
All in all, I think that the inventory check done by a script is the simplest and cleanest solution.
So on manual eating: if the guys at MCP can make the game 1. stack inventory items with scripts on them and 2. directly detect the usage of an ingredient/potion without the need to search for alchemical effects, then manual eating can be realized. Even then it would be an option, along with auto-eating.

PS. Again, these threads contain MANY ideas I like and I'm thinking to use at some degree.
PPS. The script you posted here is a good solution, in fact it's the same solution that I used to detect the usage of alcohol and add drunkenness.

I can certainly understand you wouldn't want to go to a lot of trouble (and it probably would be a *lot* of trouble) for something you wouldn't want to use yourself.

But... Would you be against someone else making a patch/alternate version/whatever that allowed for manual eating? That way it wouldn't add any overhead for people who don't want it, and you wouldn't need to bother with it at all. What's your attitude to that sort of thing?

(PS Welcome back! :celebration: NoM is one of those mods I'd never play without )

Hi Taddeus

1
about the beef texture, i looked the texture floder of your 2.13 mod, the texture of beef meat used is named cait_meat.dds,
I think just make a high res of that texture is perfect.

2
I just thought about how this mod work if player is a Vampire ?

Good to see the return of a legend in the modding community. Welcome home to Morrowind.

I'm another of those picky players who insist on using NoM as a "realism" mod, and would desperately like to see some alternative to the auto-eat function. Inevitably, just as something leaps out at my character and I draw a weapon in haste, I hear that all-too familiar gasp telling me "You need food". If there's some scripted utensil that can be equipped to trigger the eating script at any time, it would avoid having to go another half a day with hunger and thirst penalties (without scripting every food item), and then having the same thing happen two or three meal-times in a row (that's occurred more than a few times). It's not very fun to have your character starving while carrying a full pack of food. Alternatively, having an option during the config menu would be fine.

As it is, the mod seems to cater more to players who want to prepare more elaborate meals in the comfort of their own home, not the travelling adventurer who's trying to live off the land. If it can be "all things to all people", then so much the better. Keeping the current compatibility with Morrowind Crafting and Abot's Water Life would certainly be a positive thing.

Generallly speaking, this is one mod that I can't picture playing without, it adds so much to the game, yet it's the source of much frustration. A few tweaks and updates would be much appreciated.

I played a bit with beef color in Blender:
http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy227/_Taddeus_/NOM/Beef1.jpg?t=1269905964 - http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy227/_Taddeus_/NOM/Beef2.jpg?t=1269906018

@ Melian:
I've seen what happens to mods (also very good mods) that start to have 2-3-4 versions and frankly I don't like it. I think NoM should have only one version. Manual eating, if done, must be a part of the original mod. Uhm...
Let's say that if enough people request it AND if there's a way to add it without altering the current state of the mod, I could put it in as an option you can choice in the configuration script. Something like:
a. Auto eating (the way the mod works now)
b. Semi-manual eating (you have 2-4 hours to eat yourself, if you don't, the scripts come in)
c. Full manual eating (you can starve your character and the scripts will activate only after 4-5 days with no food)
(I'm telling that because maybe I just had an idea on how to realise manual eating... )

@ sphinx:
From what I remember (I've still not reopened the scripts), if you become a vampire the mod should:
1- remove all your current hunger, thirst and sleep penalties
2- disable the scripts that add such penalties
Because vampires have, well, different necessities I guess...

@ Kovacius:
What you say sounds a bit strange to me. If you have food in inventory the scripts should eat it without delay, as long as you have no weapon in hand and no spell readied. If you character becomes hungry while in combat, simply sheating your weapon at the end of fight should start the eating script.

The new beef is a big improvement. And if we're voting on manual eating, you have my vote of yes.

I don't know exactly what you used in your script to check for hunger and apply penalties, but I can tell you the same thing has happened to me at least a hundred times. I always though perhaps ypu checked for combat readiness to check for hunger, but whatever the reason, you're going along fine... Suddenly you are attacked by the whatzit from hell... Quickly you draw your sword and... you cannot move because of sudden hunger penalties. If you have food (and perhaps ypu don't) you could just sheath your sword and stand around waiting for the script to run (die in other words) or fight with the handicap.

I know people who don't use the mod because of that issue. That's one reason I have wanted to set up manual eating. Manual eating is going to stay in my mod (since it's a total conversion and all dependencies have to be removed, it'd be very difficult to make NoM work and still have it be much like NoM if you get my drift). Tamriel Rebuilt managed it, but I don't have a team...

EDIT:
Come to think of it, I think it also happened quite often after I had been severely wounded or had used lots of magicka and slept for a long period of time and was awakened by a night critter before I was fully healed.

"Let's say that if enough people request it AND if there's a way to add it without altering the current state of the mod, I could put it in as an option you can choice in the configuration script."

Count me in. My vote would be for option B: "Semi-manual eating (you have 2-4 hours to eat yourself, if you don't, the scripts come in)"
1-2 hours should be sufficient to get out of any fight situation (I didn't run into the problem mentioned above). The "stacking" of the negative effect over a number of days could simulate the effects of starvation.

Thanks for taking our requests into consideration.
Cheers.

p.s.
Nice artwork!

Fair enough

I definitely vote for having manual eating as an option, but if you decide not to - could you perhaps reconsider the penalties for light hunger? Endurance penalties can be pretty lethal (especially to mages using GCD ).

PS Can I ask what your idea is? :angel:

The scripts add hunger to your character at fixed times of the day, so if you always get hungry while beginning a fight... well, I think you have the habit of starting your fights around noon?
The penalties for light hunger now are really low (2 pts of strength and endurance) so they should not make you defenseless in any situation. The only danger, as you stated, is the problem of getting blocked in place being suddenly overencumbered; this only happens if you have an almost full inventory, but it's something to be taken into consideration. Maybe the strength penalty can be removed, reducing the light hunger to only 2 pts of endurance... I don't want to remove completely the penalty for light hunger/thirst because they are a visual warning useful to check character status at a glance.
On a side note: I'm considering moving the penalties from attributes (which are influenced by many spells/enemies) to less used magic effects, or effects that the game keeps track of in a less buggy way (burden, drain health/magicka/fatigue, etc). But this consideration is still at an early stage. If you have suggestions on this they're welcome.

As for manual eating the thing I imagined is still much in the air but it should look loke this. When you're hungry and you open your inventory a pop-up tells you that you're hungry/thirsty and asks you if you want to eat/drink. Clicking "No" brings you to the inventory screen. Clicking "Yes" create a plate (or whatever) container under the character and make the character activate it. The player moves the foods he wants to eat in the container and when he's done the scripts start eating checking the container instead of player inventory. When the character is sated, all the remaining stuff in the container gets moved back to character inventory and the container is disabled-->deleted.
The whole thing doesn't happens if you open inventory while having weapons or spells readied (so no eating during fights) and while you're talking to someone.
As I said this is still a simple idea but: it doesn't change foods, it uses the same eating method of NoM but letting you choose what foods you want to eat, it doesn't adds nothing more to your inventory. I like it, but I still don't know what the implementation problems could be. :brokencomputer:

@ Black Crow King:
If I do manual eating, those options will ALL be present and everyone will choose what he prefers in game.

Its great to see such fame return to us, I for one have barely played without NOM.


I'm not in much of a position to offer ideas beyond what everyone has already stated, but I feel that the source of mammalian milk, is the one mammal that everyone forgets in Morrowind. That is, we are going to have to eat rat's cheese. :yuck:

It never even occurred to me to put stuff somewhere else (other than the player's inventory) :facepalm:

I can't think of any reason that wouldn't work... You'd lose any non-food item you put in but that's no biggie. And if you did a MWSE patch you could just use a keypress and look at the food in front of you to eat it. We'd finally have a use for the dining rooms everyone puts in house mods!

Rats!! That's the solution! :hubbahubba:
I begin to think that the new cheese will be imported like the others...

However I'm still searching for new local foods. I noted the suggestions I had here and I parsed some commonly used mods. What I got is the following.

Tamriel Rebuilt
Bluefoot (mushroom): if poisonous I'll not use it
Colovian Loaf
Colovian Loaf (half)
Cookie 1
Cookie 2
Deshaan Bread 1
Deshaan Bread 2
Warm meat
Bay Fish 1
Bay Fish 2
Molecrab Egg
Alit Meat
Nordic Boar Meat
Racer Meat
Guar Meat
Kagouti Meat
Kwama Meat
Nordic Mutton
Cooked Rat Meat
Cooked Hound Meat
Cooked Durzog Meat
Ornada Egg
Ornada Meat
Parastylus Meat
Scrib Pie

Abot's Water Life
Green Alga (used with turtle meat only)
Turtle Meat: Combined with green alga and something else to make Turtle Soup
Egg: How to handle this? Uhm...
Golden Egg: maybe not edible?

Abot's Birds
Bird Meat

Meat and fishes will be used for simple recipes (grilled). Cooked foods added by other mods (bread, cookies, cooked meat) will be edible but I don't think I'll add the ability to cook them.
Obviously I'll use those only if granted permission. And obviously I'll not add all of these to the game world. Let's say that they'll be recognised by the scripts and used to eat/cook IF you use those mods.

Note: I've still to look at Morrowind Crafting, plus any other mods that you people may suggest.

I could make the container organic so that you can only put ingredients in it?

You can't put anything in an organic container, can you? I'm pretty sure you can't...

You could easily do it with MWSE, but without... the only way I can think if atm would be to make the container organic, move all recognised food items from the player's inventory into the container by script, and use the ones that are left after the container is activated (ie the player takes back what they don't want to eat, not the other way round).

Personally I'd rather just lose stuff you put on your plate and don't eat. After all, if you go to the pub for lunch and leave stuff on your plate, they're just going to throw that away when they clean up. Mostly I mentioned it since it should be in the readme if it's done like that (if only so you can say "I told you so" - but then that's the whole purpose of readmes, eh? ).