First things first, let me greet all of you warmly. I'm back to Morrowind after a very long break (several years) and I'm happy to see an active community with very talented modders/programmers.
Then I'd like to thank very much Wrye and the other modders who updated and kept Necessities on the net. And I'd like to thank also the people that used NoM and made their mods NoM compatible. I'm happy that so many people appreciate my work (and who wouldn't be!).

And now... back in business!

Coming back to Morrowind, the first thing I noticed are the huge graphical improvements made possible by MGE and many great mods (the texture replacers, head replacers, grass and trees addons to name a few). So I started to think that I could improve the aesthetic part of Necessities to catch up the new standards. Well, in those years I learned a bit about 3d modeling and graphical editing so I started updating a few models and textures here and there. But appetite comes with eating and so what started as a simple replacement for some objects keeps growing and could become an important update.

Now, I'll have some screenshot up in the next days. But here's a summary of the changes I've in mind for now (I'll update this list if I have new ideas):
- Graphical update (ingredients, dishes and several textures are being improved)
- New foods (both raw and cooked ones)
- New Necessities related objects (as an example, I've made a shovel for bakers...)
- Hunger, thirst, sleep and drunkennes effects reworked to prevent problems due to the buggy way Morrowind handles the drain attribute effects
- Various improvements to the Imperial Food Route
- Sound update (some of the original sound effects can be definitely improved)
- Correction of some small inconsistencies (more details later)

Oh my, that's a lot of work!!!
Obviously I'll need the help of the community discussing my ideas and giving me new ones... so I'll start from one of the point I listed.

New Foods - In Necessities there are 2 kinds of foods: local ones and imported ones. Now, new imported foods are easy to think about, but local foods are a bigger problems. They are few and it's not easy to add more because it seems that Vvardenfell's people only eat 6-7 things. This means that imported foods are far more diverse than the local ones. I'd like to diminish this gap at least a little. If you have ideas on non-lore breaking local foods, I'll be glad if you can share them with me.
I already have some ideas (guar ribs) and some doubts (local cheese? But who should produce the milk for it?).

Uff, my forum account is gone. I have to start a new one...

Welcome back! I've enjoyed NoM immensely over the years, and I wouldn't dream of playing without it.

You may or may not be aware that some time ago a discussion was started about updating NoM if permissions were available (Wrye was missing and the whole thing was very much up in the air). I think you may find some of the ideas that were presented interesting, and you may want to use some them.

Gluby was the main man, so you might want to contact him if you're interested. I haven't seen the threads for that in a while, but I'm sure he could point you to it.

Once again, welcome back!

A project to upgrade NoM? I never heard of that but as I said I've been away for so much time...
I'll have to check that, thank you!

Welcome back :wave:

The thread neildarkstar mentions is:
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1055095-wipz-putative-nom-30/page__p__15309343__fromsearch__1&#entry15309343
There's good summary of the first thread's discussion in Gluby's first post. Sadly Gluby's not been on the boards for a couple of months now.

I can't tell you how wonderful this would be! I sometimes play with NoM, sometimes don't, but often when I don't it's more because I don't like the out-of-place look of some of the foods than because I don't want the realism (and sometimes I just get tired of being tired ).


Have you considered an (optional, of course) MGE shader effect for drunkenness? That could be pretty cool.


Technically milk should come from mammals, but Vvardenfell seems to have a dearth of these. The three things that spring to mind most readily are guar milk/cheese, kwama milk/cheese (maybe some kind of nutritious fluid secreted by the queen?), and netch milk/cheese. :shrug:

Hello Taddeus.

your mod are so famous and it's also my allways activited one. here is my comment and ideas about it.

I
Ideas for the new uncoming version
1
update the mesh of wells, water buckets and other water source, my idea point is change the water face of them to animate water, by use dongle's animate water resource. i think that's not a difficult work and if you need help I'm sure i can handle some of them. I allways think the water souce in ashlander camp [yes that blue water column] looks ugly.
2
update some of the icons of water items. even in the latest 2.13 version the icons's textures have not had right alpha shape.so player see colorfull cube around bottle in their bag. correct the alpha for icons.
3
update the textures to high res for better look, such as the beef texture.
4
remove unrelative content, such as when the mod begin it ask player's gender, why? but the daytime scale question is usefull.i allways use 3x longer time.

II
comment about your mod
there are 3 reasons about why i use and think it good. one is it add so much eyecandy to the game, when i entered the food shop in balmora, i think oh, yes, this is just one of something the game missing. the second is it's custom options, frankly say, I never use the sleep, drunk, and fatigues parts of this mod. the third is roleplay feeling, i'm not a potion maker, so make food and eat is the only way i use the meet i get, i'm also enjoy it, the auto eat and drink fuction is nice for a simple player such as me. what i like is very simple, eyecandy for better look and bug free scripts and custom options.

very well done mod, thank you.

It effects sounds; men and women sound different.


This reminds me, sometimes I'd like to just sit down to a meal or swing into a tavern for a drink; having an option to not auto eat/drink would be nice.

C'mon guys, give him a break.... He's got a lot to digest just from the putative NoM threads, and some of this stuff is addressed in there. with some solutions provided. Let him look and then we can bury him under a deluge of suggestions.

Cool, Another classical modder coming back.
Welcome back, Taddeus! :celebration:

I'm reading the threads (I'm still parsing through the first one): lots of brainstorming here, with several interesting things. I'm writing a document to keep track of what suggestions I like and what I don't, so that I'll be able to remember them later.

@ Zaarin:

Me too, I can't think of any mammals on Vvardenfell. The thing I had in mind was guar cheese (since guars seems to be the local cattle) but I'm very unsecure about that and would like to hear some more opinions.


Yes, I considered this and I'll try to add that instead of the blindness effect. It would be of course an optional function (esp?), because I want the mod to be usable by the largest number of people, even the ones with old systems.
However I'm thinking to add some more tweaks to drunkenness like the character randomly changing direction while drunk or a permanent silence effect at higher levels. On that, I see that neildarkstar wrote: "I wrote a script that basically puts something similar to "float" on the player. You never really lose control of your character, but you find yourself turning in unanticipated directions as you walk or run." That is exactly what I have in mind. Peraphs you could lend me that script? :whistling:

@ sphinx:

I already started doing this. The water barrels now have animated and transparent water. I removed the top of the barrel in Blender and modeled a simple interior, so now you can see inside the barrel through the moving water.
Also, I changed the texture of the water spuots (the blue water column) and added transparency and animation to it.
The new wells by Nicholiathan added to the mod by Wrye are absolutely wonderful and I think that we have enough variety on that side for now. Only thing, I still have to upgrade one of the original wells and add transparent animated water to the other ones (I have to get permission for that).


Actually, the coloured box you see behind the bottle is intentional and is to help you identifying the liquid: blu = water, purple = wine, light brown = beer. Also, for bottles that can be partially emptied (like the water ones) the coloured box shrinks to show the actual status of "fullness". But reading many comments it seems that several people think they're an error with the alpha channel... Oh well, my bad I could have done them better...


I'm updating texture AND meshes AND icons. The beef was the first one to be remade.


Any suggestions on local foods then? You could as well point me towards some mods that add them, since as I said I was away for a long time and maybe I missed them...

No problem. Here is the entire script as I am using it in a new mod. The mod is a total conversion, and NoM unfortunately won't be runnabl in it, so I've created a half-assed Nom inside of it that is not seperable.

Here is the code in its entirety, though I had thought to make a few tweaks before I release the mod:

Begin DrunkSailorScriptShort Jmmpshort Rnnnshort flopshort whoopsishort ouchshort oopsfloat  	timerfloat   floptimerfloat	swingTimefloat	swingSpeedfloat	startAngle;set startAngle to GetStartingAngle, xif ( MenuMode == 0 )	set swingTime to 1	;set swingSpeed to 30	set timer to ( timer + GetSecondsPassed )	;rotate up	if ( timer < swingTime )		Player->Rotate z, 3	;rotate down	elseif ( timer < (swingTime * 3) )			Rotate x, -4	;up again	elseif (timer < (swingTime * 4 ) )		Player->Rotate z, 2	;reset timer to zero	else		set timer to 0		SetAtStart	endifendif;'if a drunk player tries to jumpIf ( Jmmp <= 1 )	If ( GetPCJumping == 1 )		Set Jmmp to 1	EndIfEndIf ;'or runIf ( Rnnn <= 1 )	If ( GetPCRunning == 1 )		Set Rnnn to 1	EndIfEndIf ;'set him up for a fallIf ( Jmmp == 1 )	Set flop to 1	Set jmmp to 2EndIfIf ( Rnnn == 1 )	Set flop to 1	set Rnnn to 2EndIfIf ( flop == 1 )			set floptimer to ( floptimer + GetSecondsPassed )		If ( floptimer > 2 )				;prevent jumping until after PC gets up				DisablePlayerJumping										;'give him a skinned knee				set ouch to -1				set oops to ( player->GetFatigue )				set whoopsi to ( player->GetFatigue ) + 30				set whoopsi to ( whoopsi * -1 )				player->ModCurrentFatigue whoopsi				player->ModCurrentHealth ouch				messagebox "Whoopsiii! Faw downgo BOOM!"				set ouch to 0				set flop to 2						EndIfEndIf			If ( flop == 2 )	set floptimer to ( floptimer + GetSecondsPassed)			If ( floptimer > 10 )					player->ModCurrentFatigue oops				If ( floptimer > 20 )							EnablePlayerJumping							set floptimer to 0							set jmmp to 0							set Rnnn to 0							set flop to 0																			EndIf				EndIf			EndIf		EndIfEndif	end 

Note that in NoM you had disabled run and jump, I just though it more realistic for the player to fall on his face if he jumped when running...

Fell free to all or any part of the script.

Welcome back, i love NoM!

If possible, could you please make it compatible with Morrowind Grass mod.. i can't play without the grass

Just goes to prove... Modders Disease is incurable! Welcome back Taddeus. I can't even think of playing without NoM.

Good to see you back and active ! NOM is one of the great mods and any new development is going to be well received . I'm going to suggest a few local foods : Guar jerky ( perfect for travelers ) , smoked hound meat , slaughter fish paste , cliff racer Surprise ( nice to turn the tables on them ! ). Also , some more tisane ideas : basic tisanes like hack-lo ( with a minor effect like restore fatigue ) or bittergreen ( restore intelligence ) so making tisanes would provide some minor alchemical effects as the better effects were covered in the previous release .
Also , can the Balmora store be downgraded to a stall like the wayside travelers rest stops ? Perhaps move it to a location in the main shopping area ( which is surprisingly lacking in street vendors ) . Cheers and great to see you back !

I'm not sure if animated water is such a good idea: in interiors, there wouldn't be much movement in the water surface at all, and in exteriors, they'd only move noticably if there's wind. I've gathered some photos from different sites to illustrate what I mean: http://www.heronshouse.com/images/water%20barrel.jpg, http://jamesconner.us/photos/2008-Merediths_Birthday/hampton_ct-water_barrel.jpg, http://lisalines.com/house/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/half-barrel-water-garden.JPG, http://www.meckow-international.com/images/water_barrel.jpg. All of those barrels show a rather inanimate water surface.


How about netch jelly, slaughterfish roe, slaughterfish meat, twilight milk (as a rare delicacy), hound liver, alit sweetbread, cliffracer eggs, spriggan bark, or shalk bowels?

Good luck for this update! It's great to see you back.

B

Edit: Just came up with another idea for local foods

It's was before my time here that your mod become a legend.
All I can say is welcome back _Taddeus_ !!! :talk:

I've some ideas how improved the next NoM version:

• have some resting places where you can sleep indoors during ashstorms
  
• let some creatures from Solstheim appears around the big Sheogorad island which include Ald Redaynia & Dagon Fel
  
• maybe new food recipe from the dreugh
  
• also different fatigue effect for all races
  
• introduce the Sherpard's Pie concept or make a new ones

Since you are back I will start playing NoM in a couple of days.

:foodndrink:

Thanks for sharing the script, neildarkstar. This will save me quite a bit of work!! BTW I read the first 3 pages of Gluby's thread and your script was the first post in the 4th one.

@ Vurt:
Me too, I use the grass mods and so a compatibility version is in my programs. However, it will come after the release of the new version, in which I plan to update in some way the Food Route outposts.

@ bhl:
If the animated water looks too much unrealistic, a little script can change it to animate only in exteriors and during windy or rainy weather.

@ CrazyGreggy:
The NoM shops are mostly remaining the way they are now. They'll have several graphical updates, but I don't plan to move them around too much. An exception, as said before, are the Food Route outposts that will be changed to look more like trading posts with a guar stable and maybe light fortifications, like a wood tower with an archer or such...
When originally placing the merchants I tried to retain the feeling of the different towns. Balmora merchants are all "in house", so I gave mine a house too. But in places where there's a market (Sadrith Mora, etc) food merchants have a stall.

@ Carjades:
Sorry but adding/moving creatures is not a goal of NoM, it should be done in a separate mod.

I'm taking note of your suggestions for new foods and tisanes. Some of them are really interesting.

Again big thanks to everyone for your appreciation. :foodndrink:

Hi Taddeus.


I'm agree with your point about continue support update none mge version. mge looks wonderfull, but some people like me not a fan of it.


after read bhl's comment i see make some of them none animated is a good idea, especially in indoor area. a none animated but transparent water barrel will looks perfect. the old blue water column looks very unreal, look forward to your new one. but i think it's not easy to get a nice look without change the mesh.

I noticed it use to show my water pot's fullness status[it's a wonderfull and usefull idea, keep it]. I suggest make new style icon, more clean and nice look.
I drawed some idea, see if you like them:
http://i42.tinypic.com/2gtyjcz.jpg
as you may see in the picture, there are 4 red number each show a style, the 2 is original game one, the 1 is your 2.13 version icon. as you may found the alpha area of your icon is gray, it should be black.[or it will show gray border ingame if the alpha channel is not accurate] and the blue color area is not full in entire box which looks not standard. the 3 and 4 is my new style. do you like it? and of cause , alpha channel need changed correspond.


nice news.


if you mean new mesh of food, I'm afraid you have to made it your self.

How about new resting places such as a patch of leaves in the wilderness or some hay or something.It gets annoying when my character gets tired in the middle of my ash land quest and I have to run back the nearest town or divine intervention it back.

First, thank you for this mod that made "purist's life" MUCH more enjoyable in Morrowind. All the time I have been reading this forum, your name has been always spoken with the highest regard. So, I am obviously thrilled that you have decided to come back to this old in age, but not spirit game! Here are some of my thoughts and suggestions (not requests by any means!)

Sleep Scripts
They need to be repaired. As is -> you can sleep since noon till 11pm & at midnight you still will be forced to sleep or be penalised. This is pretty bad for charactes who operate at night. This is the reason why I keep Sleep part of NOM disabled. Also, "Sleep or Suffer" mod by Duncan has some interesting ideas (http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=7200). Sleep in Shelter During a Bad Weather "Find Shelter" by Danjb (http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=6504) adds the need to find shelter in order to sleep in rough weather. I think that would fit well into NOM.

Fatigue
Personally, I love the effects of "Fatigue Effects v13" by Leon "pancreas" Medado updated by Warrax (http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=3918), which I always put over NOM in load order. There is a v14, but this one suits me better. It would be great if these effects could be incorporated into new NOM's Fatigue scripts! You may also want to take a look at "Tej?n's Fatigue Effects" (http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=687), some great ideas/components there!

Bleeding
This may be not a part of the NOM scope, but in my opinion, it goes well with the Fatigue component of NOM: "ADUL'S Advanced Combat 3.2 Bleeding (http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=6036). "When bleeding, the character will slowly loose Health. To stop bleeding cast a Restore Health spell on self, drink a healing potion, or use a bandage. You can use every "Cloth", or "Folded Cloth" as bandage. If you bleed, drop one, and pick it up again, so you'll use it to stop bleeding. Now you can buy Folded Cloths at Arrille's Tradehouse in Seyda Neen." I wouldn't based it on Endurance, but on PC's health droping below 50% or on receiving a Critical Hit (?).

Abot's Guars compatible (http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=6112)
I could not get Abot's Guars' mod to work. I could not sit "on top" them. Then I saw someone's post about having the same problem and the solution was to move it over NOM in load order. I cannot confirm this, since I've never tried it - I do not know if it will break any of NOM's scripts...

Abot's Water Life & Morrowind Crafting compatible
Even if I don't use them because of the framerate issue (already running over 200 mods), the authors of these have put a lot of efort into making their mods compatible with NOM. It would be nice to try to keep them that way.

MGE addon for drunkness would be cool too (especially if it would be MGE 3.03 compatible)
"Improved alcohol effects" by Timeslip. This mod causes blurred vision, staggering and blindness if you drink too much alcohol. (http://timeslip.users.sourceforge.net/mgemods.html)

I'm not too crazy about the water animations, since they may hit FPS on older computers, but this is your mod, so do as you please.
Also, I don't think there is a need to complicate cooking - there is already a good number of dishes to choose from. I don't think that it should be a priority. As for cooking sounds and animations, I remember those used in "Arx Fatalis" - they always made me hungry when I played that (a very long time ago).

Good luck with this project!
Cheers.

There are bedrolls added by NoM already for just such a purpose. They are sold by a lot of merchants (including Arille in Seyda Neen) and work for your NoM sleeping requirements.

Good to know that I'm not the only one who's really bothered with that issue .
BTW, the http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=687 mod you mentioned regarding NoM fatigue has a great sleep module too. Long time ago when Wrye was active at modding http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?showtopic=792114&view=findpost&p=11515958 but it ended up with nothing..

I loved NoM it was a great mod my only flaw was the fact it was on auto all the time. Ive really been looking for that to be possible to disable. Id love for the consumption to be manual. one other thing is. I love the wide variety of foods but not a lot of them seem like something you would take on a travel unless your rich (Their not expensive but it just seems such fine food would be for noble caravans) or would spoil after a a while so i figure why not have various cloth wrapped rations just labeled as say for the most basic would be Bread Ration would be no more the stale bread and jarred scrib jelly. or Meat Ration which would be little more then Dried and smoked jerky or meat strips with maybe gravy for extra flavor and High grade rations would be as such just that dried meat and pickled vegetables so all just..varying quality rations separated from each other in price and contents. Just really small bundles of non perishable foods that wouldnt be too expensive for your average traveler

Ooh, that's a good point about perishables SatoKia. A food spoilage option would add another touch of realism and challenge.

Regarding cheese - isn't scuttle Vvardenfell's equivalent to cheese (not to mention its favorite local dish)?

It occurs to me that there are mammals... Imagine those poor Nords, going out in the wee hours to milk the bears and wolves... and I think I have it rough, just milking the cat...