Well, at least we know that the script is fine. Now, the thing that amazes me the most is that NoM doesn't modifies the temple spouts. They're vanilla objects and I modified only their model, but not the object in the Construction Set. And it seems that nobody else is having this problem.
Mmmm... is it possible that they for some reason don't work on your machine because they're an animated model? The source and the waterfall have animated textures on a static model, while the spouts are animated models. If you have Nifskope we can make a try...

Ok, I uninstalled EVERYTHING. I re installed morrowind and my expansions, and then NOM. Now the spout works. I'm going to reload my mods one by one, and when I figure out which one is causing the problems, I'll let you know.

Well, I don't have the beta, but with NOM 2.13-02, I also had problems with that particular water spout activator. It didn't really bother me enough to change the mods I used in an existing game, but I will sort it out before I start a new one.
Problem description: You can't activate it at all - it's not that nothing happens when you do activate it, it's that you don't see the "water spout" tag at all, so you can't activate it. If you select and activate it by using the console, then its script fires.
It doesn't occur with only NoM active, but it does occur when NoM loads last after a lot of other ESPs. Odd.

EDIT: It was the Morrowind Patch Project 1.65 beta, which removes the name "Water Spout" from the activator furn_moldcave_spout00, and apparently you can't activate an activator without a name.
NoM only changes the script Sound_Water_Spout, not the activator (it's used on other activators, as well), so that's why it didn't show up as a conflict in the usual suspects (utilities).

Ah, that would indeed explain it all. I have MPP 1.64. Bigsmoke, if you can confirm that, we'll finally solve this.
Thanks Alexxx.

Feed back

since I cann't download files from that site smoothly, all I get is a small broken rar file which is less than 2 MB. after depressed it, i got part of files, I saw icon and few mesh.
so, I viewed all new icon's dds files. my feedback is nice. a highlight is the new icon for filled bottle, looks much nice and clean than the 2.13 version.

1.65 is, in fact the MPP I use. Finally, the answer! :clap:

After considering this a bit more, I modified the hammock script to not activate them during character generation.


Thanks. If you tell me a site from where you can download, I can upload the file there for you.


This was a nasty one.
Ok, I "modified" (without changing anything, you could exchange it for a dirty reference) the spout so that the MCP change will be overwritten.

Some news:
1) I modified eating and drinking scripts for high penalties. Now you shouldn't be able to die accidentally with food and drinks in your inventory.
2) The water barrel is now based on the barrel made by AnOldFriend for his containers replacer. (thanks AnOldFriend)

I'm still waiting more feedback. If nothing new emerges, I'll post beta4 along with the fixed compatibility patches.

Wow! This is all so amazing! I was having that same spout problem and yes, I use MPP 1.6.5. So glad the mystery is solved. Alexx, you deserve a big cookie for rooting that one out.

_Taddeus_, sorry I haven't offered to beta test, but I'm still concerned about cleaning my savegame. I know how to do it, but it certainly scares me. I was thinking of going ahead and d/l the beta and not ticking the .esp for now. I could use it as a replacer and just test the meshes and textures. I'm not sure if this would be of much help to you, but I'm willing to give it a shot.

Referencing the last stable version:

Several of the NoM wells throughout the game have animated grass growing up through them, Hla Oad, for example. Same with the permanent food merchant buildings, such as in Balmora. I wasn't sure if you planned to address this in your animated grass patch, since these are not big landscape changes. Also, it may have already been reported, but in Gnisis, the well sits on a CoM play area, spawnpoint. Also, there is a NoM torch hanging in mid-air near the Mar Gaan Outpost. Just little things that you've probably already taken care of, but just in case.

Keep up the fantastic work!

Temple fountains work good for me, no problem here with waterspouts.
Zainab camp watersource works nice for me too.

I made a try being a vegetarian Telvanni and had a curious issue, ate three moonsugar puddings at 44 hunger aproximately and obtained a -222 hunger stat, the highest in this beta I ever had. Normal hunger stat after eating being omnivorous is 0 or -30, -40... but -222... it's amazing.

I have an episode with Madach's Trade House in Gnisis, I can't choose the innkeeper's dialog options. Anyone else with this?

I hadn't anymore the mixing bowl script error anymore, I installed this beta over the old version. I created a new character for the test, clean save, and had that message loading the game, not the save.

You can always start a new game to test it, if you don't want to clean your savegame at this stage.
As for the problems you listed:
- The grass patches remove animated grass from NoM objects' locations, so you shouldn't see anymore clipping. I hope I didn't forget anything.
- There's a compatibility patch for Children of Morrowind addressing the conflict in Gnisis.
- The flying torch has been removed.


-222 hunger is definitely wrong. The lowest value allowed for hunger should be -30. I need some more details on this. Did this happen while you were eating manually or automatically?

The dialogue for Madach is working for me. You can't chose any of his topics? Can you trade with him? Anyone else having problems with him?

The message about the mixing bowl is weird. Maybe you have a NoM-ified mod containing the mixing bowl? However if it appears only on the first load, I think it's a simple update error and it should give no problems.

I hadn't really thought about running two different load lists. That makes perfect sense and simplifies matters. I'll go ahead and start testing as soon as I get the d/l link. I really can't believe I hadn't thought of it . . . early-onset senility, I guess.

I have been testing both the vegetarian and carnivore options and these are the results.
Ordering food in the food of the gods allows you to order and eat anything regardless of ethics.
Racer morsels are not eaten manually or automatically when set to either vegetarian or Carnivore with a hunger value of 393.(Are they a meat product?)
Setting as Vegetarian results in ingredients such as Conberry, Corkbulb Roots being eaten automatically even with preserve raw ingredients set. What counts as raw ingredients for vegetarians.
So far everything else appears to be working as intended even down to the automatic eating if you set manual and allow your hunger level to get to heavy with food in your inventory.

Since several people reported that the player learns new recipes when he acquires the books and not when he reads them, I changed the pop-up message from "By reading the book you..." to "By acquiring the book you...". This should explain better that recipes are learned on acquisition.


I finally modified the oven mesh (the upper chimney part), so it should look good in exterior too. I'm still thinking if and where to add it.


I'll send you the links to beta4, since I'm really close to upload it.


Thanks.
Added two more dishes in Food of the Gods. Now omnivorous can chose between 8 dishes, while vegetarian and carnivores have 2 choices each.
Racer morsels have cliff racer meats among their ingredients, so they're not eaten by vegetarians.
As for raw foods, they're mainly raw meat and fishes, ie things that are commonly cooked before being eaten. Berries and corkbulb roots (I think of them like some sort of carrots) can be safely eaten even if not cooked.

I'm uploading beta4 and a new compatibility pack.

Changes in the main file:
- All the changes listed here since beta 3.
- If you cook something with a grill or (only for a few foods) with a frying pan, you should see the food on it. This feature is time consuming, so before applying it to more dishes I'd like to hear your opinion on it.

Changes in the compatibility pack:
- Removed the muspila's grass mod esp, since muspila adopted my changes in his main esp, making his mod NoM compatible without the need for patches.
- Added a small Children of Morrowind compatibility patch (Gnisis).
- Updated the Morrowind Crafting compatibility patch.

What you should look for: basically hunger, thirst and sleep scripts. Try to stress them in every way you can.
Once we determine that they're working well, we'll be very close to the release, since they're by far the most complicated and intertwined part of the mod.
Some info for better testing:
- You die from hunger at 1200 hunger (10 days)
- You die of thirst at 600 thirst (5 days)
- At 1080 hunger (540 thirst) you receive a warning about being close to death
- Manual eating only is ignored above 480 hunger
- Preserve raw foods is ignored above 480 hunger
- Vegetarians and carnivores should eat everything when above 720 hunger
- Drinking restrictions are ignored above 240 thirst
- Above 960 hunger the PC will try to drink fruit juices to satisfy hunger a little
- Above 480 thirst the PC will try to eat soups and oranges to quench thirst a little
- Above 420 thirst the PC won't eat ham, jerky and other excessively salty or dry foods

If you've something to report on these scripts, please try to give full details: your hunger/thirst/sleep value, if you were eating manually or automatically, and so on.

Thanks again for your great effort in testing this!

EDIT: Internet is too slow, I'll upload it later.

Please send me the link, _Taddeus_, I'll be able to test it now.

Your modders' resource is still not ready yet, right? Because I'm very anxious to merge it with Pelagiad Expanded.

I had -222 hunger the first time eating automatically as vegetarian. The second time I had -30 and the third, 0. I'll try again turning to carnivore / omnivorous then vegetarian again in beta 4.

I could trade with Madach, the problem was with the dialog options in red, I couldn't choose them. I'll try again.

I had nomified mods installed in the past. When I tested the beta Nom, I unchecked them, but yes, the message showed only once and no, I hadn't problems with the cooking devices.

I finally managed to upload it.
I sent a PM to all the beta testers with the link for the new files.


I'll build the modder's resource pack starting from the complete working version.


Yes, please, as I said in the previous post, try to stress the eating and drinking scripts (both automatic and manual). Having them working properly will be a huge step towards the final goal.
I'll try speaking to Madach again. Anyone else can confirm or deny this problem?

Bye

Talking with Madach gives no problems to me. Moreover, NoM only adds one topic with "red options" (beds for rent) and it's a simple yes/no choice that is working well. Maybe if you can tell me what topics have those malfunctioning options, we'll find the cause.

Other than that, I'm continuing to work on the graphic aspect of the mod, while waiting for some feedback: making new models, improving a texture, that kind of things.

I sent the links for beta4 2 days ago, but I've no comments yet. Is it so flawless?

Sorry, Taddeus. It's the weekend. Every time I sit down to play, something comes up. I'll get to it eventually.

Hehe, I forgot the weekend ,sorry. It seems that 3 weeks of holyday removed the idea of week-end from my mind...

Hunger scripts tested under all 3 options to starvation and no problems encountered, they all behaved as expected including the changes to the order food menu in the Food of the Gods. So far thirst scripts are working as expexted and no other problems encountered so far.
Is there a limit to how far you can go without sleep, as so far I have a sleep value of 120 and apart from the blackouts and intermitent silence spells I have not found any other ill effects to staying awake.

I appear to be doing things on schedule as well.

I've been testing a bit Beta 4. I solved my problem with mazte / greef / sujamma icons merging objects with testool.
But I still have the problem with Madach in Gnisis, this time the topic "bed" does not appear in the dialog options.
I play in a hard modded game, this could be the cause if anyone else have this issue, but I have all "nomified" and nom relative mods unchecked for the testing.

I play with a Lgnpc mods, they add a lot of dialogue, and perhaps one of them is interfering, but I have only that innkeeper without the dialog and I haven't a "Gnisis only" mod.

All other things seems to be running smoothly, I tried to stress the hunger scripts and changed to carnivorous / onmivorous / vegetarian without problems. Carnivorous took a little time before eating (hunger 84), I need to test this again, I hope tomorrow or today in late afternoon.

Sooooo....I switched from Automatic eating to manual eating to see if everything was still working, and I am now having a major problem. I just started the game, and I just got hungry the first time. I dropped the food satchel and ate 2 loaves of bread. I then clicked the close button, and I CTD'ed. I saved just before eating, and have gone back to try again several times. Each time I try to close the satchel, I crash.

After thinking about it, I'm wondering if maybe it has something to do with the game trying to apply the buffs after closing the food satchel inventory. I suppose only Taddeus could say whether or not that's the case.