[REL] Necessities of Morrowind 3.0 : III - Morrowind

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:37 pm

It seems that housemods made for the previous version of NOM may not be fully compatible with "v3".
I've recieved a complaint that my mod "Agent's Solitude" causes the water source scripts to not work correctly.
However, the user who sent in the complaint hasn't elaborated any further than "Your mod makes it stop working".
(They haven't made any more comments since then either, and didn't even specify what NOM version was used.)

My mod makes no changes to the "Water Barrel" object or the water script, and it only adds one water barrel.
The way it is set up, it should already be fully compatible with v3, but I think I may update it sometime anyway.
(If only to switch out it's old Redoran oven for one of the new Hlaalu ovens. It is a Hlaalu style kitchen, after all.)

I won't change the oven in Wizard's Rest, though.
It's use of the Dwemer oven was a deliberate design choice.
(When I first thought of the idea for WR's custom smokestack/chimney, I knew I just HAD to make it.)

Regardless, it seems that quite a few house mods may need to be upgraded for compatibility with the new standard.
In light of this, my next project will be to upgrade Wizard's Rest and Agent's Solitude for version three compatibility.
After that, I'm considering making such upgrades for certain other housemods...
Perhaps some of Korana's mods... Would anyone like me to do a v3 upgrade for "Ascadian Rose Cottage"?

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:52 pm

I would like a updated Ascadian Rose Cottage, its a nice little house.

» Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:36 am

Sounds good to me. I'll add Ascadian Rose Cottage to my project list.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:39 pm

I'm using Wizard's Rest. The grill outside works great, as does the oven, cooking pot, frying pan, and rolling pin (pot and pan brought in by me, the grill, oven and rolling pin added by the house mod). I have used them all successfully. Also, the water pod outside has been filling my waterbag regularly. I have NOM 3.0 installed, too.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:28 pm

Thanks, Nowena. That's great.

Now I just need to work on Agent's Solitude. It won't take long, though.
I'll just need to exchange the Redoran oven for a new Hlallu one, and then replace the kegstands.
The kegstands use the old defualt ones, so if I don't change them to the new free ones, you'll have to pay to use them.

Aside from that, it really shouldn't need any other changes, hopefully.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:22 pm

Happy to see that the problem is finally solved.

Aside from that, it seems that I'll have to release a new patch, since passing NoM through tes3cmd I overcleaned it a bit... :whistling:
Not a great thing, but people using MCP 1.65 may find temple fountains are not working. People with MCP 1.64 won't have this problem.

Having to do a mini-update, I thought to add something more. http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy227/_Taddeus_/NOM/Scuttle.jpg?t=1285778978It's basically the old scuttle model, but wrapped in green leaves to keep it fresh.
Let me know what you think of it.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:01 pm

I like it. Will you be updating the esp with it?

» Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:23 am

Having to do a mini-update, I thought to add something more. New scuttle.It's basically the old scuttle model, but wrapped in green leaves to keep it fresh.

Nice. I like it. ^_^

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:47 pm

Hi, _Taddeus_!

I've started a new game with NoM 3.0 (.1), and although I haven't got very far, I'm enjoying the improvements over 2.13 immensely. So far, everything's working fine. I adore how nice the water barrel outside Caius' house looks and watching my meat grill (with smoke, no less)... what fun! Makes me finally want to learn to use that Water Life fishing rod

. But I do have a question about planned or possible compatibility patches.

The mod in question that I'm currently using is http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=5708.

The following foods added by RW are (naturally) unrecognized by NoM (I've removed the non-food items from the exported RW ingredient list):

Spoiler

"INGR" "RWB_Wolf_meat_01" "Wolf Meat" "1.00" "2"
"INGR" "RWB_Bear_meat_01" "Bear Flesh" "1.00" "4"
"INGR" "RWB_Boar_meat_01" "Boar Meat" "1.00" "1"
"INGR" "RWB_Horker_heart_01" "Horker's Heart" "1.00" "200"
"INGR" "RWB_Grahl_heart_01" "Grahl Heart" "1.00" "350"
"INGR" "RWB_Horker_meat_01" "Horker Meat" "0.50" "1"
"INGR" "RWB_Wolf_heart_01" "Wolf's Heart" "0.50" "200"
"INGR" "RWB_Bear_heart_01" "Bear's Heart" "1.00" "200"
"INGR" "RWB_Boar_heart_01" "Boar's Heart" "1.00" "200"
"INGR" "RWB_rabbit_meat_01" "Rabbit Meat" "0.50" "3"
"INGR" "RW_Durzog_heart_01" "Durzog Heart" "1.00" "15"
"INGR" "RW_Alit_egg_02" "Alit Egg" "1.00" "10"
"INGR" "RW_Guar_egg_02" "Guar Egg" "1.00" "10"
"INGR" "RW_Kagouti_egg_02" "Kagouti Egg" "1.00" "15"
"INGR" "RW_Nix_egg_02" "Nix Hound Egg" "0.50" "7"
"INGR" "RW_Racer_egg_02" "Cliff Racer Egg" "0.50" "3"
"INGR" "RW_Alit_meat_01" "Alit Flank Meat" "1.00" "8"
"INGR" "RW_Guar_meat_01" "Guar Gammon" "1.00" "4"
"INGR" "RW_Kagouti_meat_01" "Kagouti Steak" "1.00" "9"
"INGR" "RW_Alit_heart_01" "Alit's Heart" "1.00" "23"
"INGR" "RW_Guar_heart_01" "Guar's Heart" "1.00" "15"
"INGR" "RW_Kagouti_heart_01" "Kagouti's Heart" "1.00" "30"
"INGR" "RW_Nix_heart_01" "Hound's Heart" "0.50" "8"
"INGR" "RW_racer_meat_01" "Racer Meat" "0.50" "10"
"INGR" "RW_Racer_egg_03" "Sea Racer Egg" "0.50" "5"
"INGR" "RW_Racer_egg_04" "Vulgar Racer Egg" "0.50" "1"
"INGR" "RW_Racer_egg_05" "Red Mountain Racer Egg" "0.50" "20"
"INGR" "RW_kwama_cuttle_Uni" "Strange Kwama Cuttle" "0.10" "2"
"INGR" "RW_Kagouti_egg_02_cur" "Kagouti Egg" "1.00" "15"
"INGR" "RW_Nix_egg" "Nix Hunter Egg" "0.50" "7"
"INGR" "RW_AshAlit_egg_02" "Ashland Alit Egg" "1.00" "20"
"INGR" "RW_Racer_egg_03_VQ2" "Sea Racer Egg" "0.50" "5"

This is kind of a lot of ingredients, and even though I've barely got out of Seyda Neen, it's disturbing to throw a pile of meat on the grill and have a large portion of it go unseen as meat that can be grilled. I try not to think about all those unuseable eggs. I've only got Basic Cooking as yet, so there's not much I can do with eggs, though I should be able to boil them in the cooking pot, shouldn't I? I mean, really, I'm sure Racer and Nix Hound eggs must be edible, but even I'm not so mad as to eat them raw. Just.... no .

I've loaded both RW and NoM in the CS to have a look at the possibility of a quick-n-dirty patch, but the first glance seems to rule that out. Would the thrust generally be that the new foods would have to be added individually to the NoM_grill script (as one example)? If the CS has a character limit on scripts, as I've heard it does, though I don't know how big it is, then that looks like it's not going to work very well, given the amount of meats alone that RW adds.

What I was wondering is whether it would be feasible to, say, add a new cookbook ("Exotic Meats and Sweetbreads of Vvardenfell" or some such) which then would "shunt" the new foods to a secondary script (NoM_grill/roast/whatever_2) which would allow them to be cooked however seemed reasonable. I just find it such a shame to manage to get such delicacies as hearts and Racer Eggs and only to be able to use them for alchemy. Especially the hearts (you know, the mighty hunter eats the heart of the enemy. Or sells them to the decadent and jaded to eat. Whatever

).

In any case, even if that's a feasible idea, I don't know if I know how to do it; I might well be able to figure something out, but (since the author of RW seems long disappeared) any advice or indeed a professional compatibility patch would be appreciated.

Oh, and if you do an update, you might want to mention in the "NoM_ for_Modders" sectiion of the readme that non-standard mod-added beds should have the "Bed_Standard" script added to them so that they work with NoM. I had the bad luck of my first two houses (one with a custom modder's resource bed added by me, and the other in a beautifully customized companion house created by another modder) being without this script on the beds (since I didn't know they needed it) and I went for days getting tireder and tireder-- despite a desperate attempt to rest by sleeping for 24 hours straight-- till I finally broke down and bought a bedroll and slept just outside Seyda Neen. Naturally, as soon as I "popped the hood" so to speak, I realized what the problem was, but I was surprised that the readme didn't mention it.

Thanks so much for NoM 3! I know I've only scratched the surface, but I'm liking the surprises so far, like Saltrice Milk. A sort of food/potion combo. Or a potion that I cooked up myself. What a novel concept. Can't wait to see what else new there is to discover...I am very much looking forward to throwing some Guar Rib on the barbie some game day soon

!

» Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:01 am

That svcks. I use Real Wildlife 2B as well. I hope Taddeus includes an update for this as well as that new scuttle mesh.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:54 pm

With the next update, can it be applied over the existing esp or will it require a game save to be cleaned?

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:16 pm

[snip]

Hi and thanks for your appreciation.

Unfortunately, a full compatibility version for all the real wildlife foods is not in my plans and, based on the limitations of the scripting engine you noted, I don't even know if it is possible. This is true for other mods adding large quantities of new foods as well. Adding a new ingredient in NoM requires some work, as you must modify several cooking and eating scripts to recognize it. Adding a whole lot of them requires a lot of work and it would make many long scripts even longer, which I don't think is a good thing.
But, I can easily do a partial compatibility version of real wildlife esp for these ingredients, simply replacing them with the equivalent NoM versions:

Spoiler

"INGR" "RWB_Wolf_meat_01" "Wolf Meat" "1.00" "2"
"INGR" "RWB_Bear_meat_01" "Bear Flesh" "1.00" "4"
"INGR" "RWB_Boar_meat_01" "Boar Meat" "1.00" "1"
"INGR" "RW_Alit_meat_01" "Alit Flank Meat" "1.00" "8"
"INGR" "RW_Guar_meat_01" "Guar Gammon" "1.00" "4"
"INGR" "RW_racer_meat_01" "Racer Meat" "0.50" "10"
"INGR" "RW_Kagouti_meat_01" "Kagouti Steak" "1.00" "9"

This leaves out eggs and hearts, but it's better than nothing. At least for meat you will have a full compatibility.

EDIT: I'll add the bed_standard note to the readme.

With the next update, can it be applied over the existing esp or will it require a game save to be cleaned?

I don't think it will need that. The only one change in the esp is done to the temple spouts.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:34 pm

I spent most of my day doing it, but I made a patch for Dave Humphreys furniture mod. I'll need to test it, but it should add NoM scripts to all the place-able beds, fires, water sources, and cooking devices.

edit:
With taddeus' permission I'd like to upload it after its been thoroughly tested.

» Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:38 am

:D I spent most of my day doing it, but I made a patch for Dave Humphreys furniture mod. I'll need to test it, but it should add NoM scripts to all the place-able beds, fires, water sources, and cooking devices.

edit:
With taddeus' permission I'd like to upload it after its been thoroughly tested.

Of course you can upload it.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:17 pm

A funny thing happened while I was flying in from Ebonheart...

I was testing a couple of new mods I'm working on, and it takes game-time months to get through the different scripted effects. I usually disable NOM for such testing, but I had forgotten to do so this time. After waiting and sleeping for days, I was flying along and I suddenly (and unexpectedly) experienced some of the new consequences brought about by lack of sleep, thirst, and hunger.I had no clue as to what had just happened to me... It was the most amazing sensation I've had while playing for quite some time!

» Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:58 am

A funny thing happened while I was flying in from Ebonheart...

I was testing a couple of new mods I'm working on, and it takes game-time months to get through the different scripted effects. I usually disable NOM for such testing, but I had forgotten to do so this time. After waiting and sleeping for days, I was flying along and I suddenly (and unexpectedly) experienced some of the new consequences brought about by lack of sleep, thirst, and hunger.I had no clue as to what had just happened to me... It was the most amazing sensation I've had while playing for quite some time!

Hehe, yes, sometimes this happens to me, too.
If you forget to uncheck the NoM esp you can enter "set NoM_active_hts to 0" in the console to disable most of the penalties.

http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy227/_Taddeus_/NOM/Wickwheat.jpg?t=1286120697 for the next update...

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:51 pm

New wickwheat mesh for the next update...

Awesome! Nice & wheat-y.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:25 pm

Well, I've got a break in my Telvanni schedule, so I thought I'd take another extended tour of the Telvanni mainland. While there I discovered something I thought was discussed in the readme or mod thread for NOM, but I can't seem to find it. Forgive me if I'm just blind.

But, I found there are no NOM ovens or fireplaces (to set grills, pans, etc) in the mainland cities and, of course, none in the mod houses there. This is fairly easy to cover with the campfire kit (whew! Love that addition since the last time I used an earlier version of NOM.) but more importantly, I can't find any place to refill my water bags/bottles. This is where I swear I read something: has anyone made a patch that includes water barrels or water sources on the mainland? I can get home quickly but it will be a long trek back to where I'm currently exploring.

» Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:48 am

OK. Nevermind. In my exploration of the mainland, I finally ran into the Boethian Falls (for a pilgrimage) and low and behold, the waterfall filled my waterbags. So, I'm good to go now and I think I know how to handle it in the future. Foodstuffs, by the way, work great, but none of the traders I've met - yet - have any ingredients or cooking utensils. That's to be expected, though, so I brought along most of what I needed or couldn't get from the local flora and fauna. (The campfire kit works well since the mainland is rather primitive about ovens and all. So, I just make a little camping trip to do my cooking.)

This is fun.

» Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:49 am

Well, I've got a break in my Telvanni schedule, so I thought I'd take another extended tour of the Telvanni mainland. While there I discovered something I thought was discussed in the readme or mod thread for NOM, but I can't seem to find it. Forgive me if I'm just blind.

But, I found there are no NOM ovens or fireplaces (to set grills, pans, etc) in the mainland cities and, of course, none in the mod houses there. This is fairly easy to cover with the campfire kit (whew! Love that addition since the last time I used an earlier version of NOM.) but more importantly, I can't find any place to refill my water bags/bottles. This is where I swear I read something: has anyone made a patch that includes water barrels or water sources on the mainland? I can get home quickly but it will be a long trek back to where I'm currently exploring.

There was a patch to add NoM compatibility to the first TR map, but the second map release changed several things on Map 1 and made the patch "awkward" at best, where you'd get all sorts of errors when entering certain houses, etc. I don't recall whether or not the patch was ever updated. The new NoM release should (in theory) recognize the earlier additions, so if the patch was updated for TR2, it should still work.

I recall having visited the mainland before the patch for NoM, and finding water in short supply. My character had to store enough water to last until the next rainfall, when his water bottles gradually refilled. I ended up placing a water barrel in one town with the CS, so I'd have a more reliable supply.

» Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:16 am

Is there any chance of uploading a complete 3.01? I realize it's a minor thing and it's not patches on top of patches but it's one of my pet peeves to have to download patches on top of a full download.

» Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:40 am

Is there any chance of uploading a complete 3.01? I realize it's a minor thing and it's not patches on top of patches but it's one of my pet peeves to have to download patches on top of a full download.

Now I'm working (slowly I must add) on 3.02 and it will be released in patch format, like 3.01 was. When I'll have a version which doesn't need an update, not an immediate one at least, I'll upload a new full package.

As for TR, there are mods on PES adding food seller to map 1 and 2, so that you can have new NoM foods on the mainland.
For the water sources, Water Life has a functionality to fill water bottles during rain.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:07 pm

Considering that Water Life was updated on 09-16 i have to ask...is version 1.17 compatible with Nom v3.01?

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:48 pm

It is.

Works just fine. ^^ Using it myself.

» Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:30 am

Hmm. I found the patch for TR map 1, but it doesn't seem to do anything for map 2. Could someone give me a hint where to get one for map 2? Also, the patch I have adds some additional water wells (not the ones that were already there) to map 1 cities and towns only. Waterfalls all over the map will fill bottles and bags.