[REL] Necessities of Morrowind 3.0

Post » Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:50 pm

It's safer to load it before NoM. Also, remember to use one of the NoM creature loot addons, they'll add even more meats and are fully compatible with Gluby's mod. So the load order should be: Gluby's mod, then NoM creature loot, then NoM.


Ah thanks _Taddeus_. :)
User avatar
Naomi Lastname
 
Posts: 3390
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:21 am

Post » Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:09 am

You're doing a really great job with your house mods!! :thumbsup:


Thanks, Taddeus! :celebration:
More is on the way! :D
User avatar
Victor Oropeza
 
Posts: 3362
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:23 pm

Post » Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:14 pm

I've been using 3.02 without any problems, thanks
User avatar
Anthony Rand
 
Posts: 3439
Joined: Wed May 09, 2007 5:02 am

Post » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:55 am

While working with my new merger and testing for bugs, i've come across a minor glitch in your mod. Just aesthetic, nothing important. The well in Wolverine Hall, is overlapping the original one, rather than deleting the old one. I also notice at some places in wine cellers (like in the Census and Excise office) that it also has that glitch when looking at the wood when going to fill your bottles with cheap wine. I don't see anything else that pops out just yet, but i'll let you know if i find anything else.
User avatar
Shelby Huffman
 
Posts: 3454
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:06 am

Post » Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:40 pm

Thank you for putting your NOM link in your signature. That really truly does make it a lot easier to find and also helps keep people up to date on the latest release.
User avatar
Tamara Dost
 
Posts: 3445
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:20 pm

Post » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:38 am

Is this compatible with Korana's Solstheim Castle yet?
User avatar
Maeva
 
Posts: 3349
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:27 pm

Post » Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:58 am

While working with my new merger and testing for bugs, i've come across a minor glitch in your mod. Just aesthetic, nothing important. The well in Wolverine Hall, is overlapping the original one, rather than deleting the old one. I also notice at some places in wine cellers (like in the Census and Excise office) that it also has that glitch when looking at the wood when going to fill your bottles with cheap wine. I don't see anything else that pops out just yet, but i'll let you know if i find anything else.


I can't duplicate these glitches. I only get one well model from the console.

Did you perhaps apply the mod over an old version? Maybe try repairing with Wrye Mash
User avatar
Tom Flanagan
 
Posts: 3522
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:51 am

Post » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:08 am

NoM That Mod!

After playing NOM for a while, you may find it disconcerting to visit an area added by another mod and find: ovens that don't cook, wells that don't provide water, kegs that can't be tapped, and of course, scads of empty bottles.

Fortunately, Wrye Mash has a feature that allows you to "NoMify" such mods with just a few clicks!

First you need to set the feature up:
? Copy or the file "NoM MiniRes.esp" from Mash's Mopy\Extras folder to your Data Files folder.
? Go to Mash and select any mod in the Mods tab, right click on it, and select Import: Edit Replacers.
? In the resulting dialog, click "Add" and add the "NoM Refs.etxt" file from the Mash's Mopy\Data folder.
? Close the dialog. You'll now have a "NoM Refs" option under the Import menu.

Usage:
? Select the mod that you want to NoMify, right click on it and select "Import: NoM Refs".
? That's it! Mash will replace ovens, kegs, miner's grills, bottles, etc. with their NoM equivalents. Note that this can be safely done even if the mod is already being used by a savegame.

Note however that Mash's NoMify ability will only change existing objects. It will not add new NoM food vendors, nor will it add new wells, ovens, etc. Modders who would like add such features to their mod are advised to use the NoM compatibility pack. Note that this pack does not require the end user to have NoM. (Though without NoM, many of the NoM features won't work – i.e. you'll have the visual effects and variety of NoM, but not the eating/sleeping/drinking substance of NoM.)

Warning! The above procedure to NoMify a mod is confirmed to work with the 2.13 version of the mod. While it should in theory continue to work with NoM 3.0, it has not been directly tested. Be sure to make backup copies of your mods before attempting this.
I've been having a look at this and whilst I'm no Python-er it looks like this should work with 3.0

Basically, it looks like "NoM Refs.etxt" defines a bunch of vanilla game objects that, when encountered in a mod are converted into NOM objects. E.g.
ex_nord_well_01: NOM_well_nord_01
So, when NoMifying a plugin that has a "ex_nord_well_01" in it they're changed to "NOM_well_nord_01"

The plugin "NOM MiniRes.esp" is used as the source for the characteristics of these new objects, it's there where they're defined as Activators and so on.

It looks like all the NoM 2.0 objects in "NoM Refs.etxt" are also included in NoM 3.0 so it should work as is.

There are some areas where it could be updated:

The entries for "furn_com_kegstand" and "furn_de_kegstand" are:
furn_com_kegstand: NOM_kegstand_beer, NOM_kegstand_wine, NOM_kegstand_emp
furn_de_kegstand: NOM_kegstand_beer_de, NOM_kegstand_wine_de, NOM_kegstand_emp_de
The way I read the code is that the first instance of "furn_com_kegstand" is turned into "NOM_kegstand_beer", the second into "NOM_kegstand_wine" and the third into "NOM_kegstand_emp" and then back to "NOM_kegstand_beer"

There are a number of new kegstands that've been defined in NoM 3.x, so these extra object names could be added to "NoM Refs.etxt"

However there are a lot of new kegstands so whether you'd want all of them in is another matter.

As things stand, "furn_de_minercave_grill_01" is replaced by "NOM_grill_02". Looking in NoM 3.02 I think that "NOM_grill_01_dunmer" would be a better one to use. Solely on the names of the two objects.

To me, the Mash reference replacer could easily be updated to account for this:
Fires
Many Morrowind pitfires are lights (one is a static), but in NoM I replaced them with activators. So, if you want to have full NoM functionality, in your mods you have to replace the following fires with the corresponding activator you find in the modders’ pack.
? Replace “furn_de_firepit_f” (light) with “NoM_furn_de_firepit_f”
? Replace “furn_de_firepit_f_01” (light) with “NoM_furn_de_firepit_f_01”
? Replace “furn_de_firepit_f_01_400” (light) with “NoM_furn_de_firepit_f_01_400”
? Replace “furn_de_firepit_f_128” (light) with “NoM_furn_de_firepit_f_128”
? Replace “furn_de_firepit_f_200” (light) with “NoM_furn_de_firepit_f_200”
? Replace “furn_de_firepit_f_323” (light) with “NoM_furn_de_firepit_f_323”
? Replace “furn_de_firepit_f_400” (light) with “NoM_furn_de_firepit__f_400”
? Replace “light_logpile” (light) with “NoM_furn_light_logpile”
? Replace “light_logpile10” (light) with “NoM_furn_light_logpile10”
? Replace “light_logpile_128” (light) with “NoM_furn_light_logpile_128”
? Replace “light_logpile_177” (light) with “NoM_furn_light_logpile_177”
? Replace “light_pitfire00” (light) with “NoM_light_pitfire00”
? Replace “light_pitfire01” (light) with “NoM_light_pitfire01”
? Replace “Furn_De_Firepit_01” (static) with “NoM_furn_de_firepit_01”
So, anyway. Just thought I'd report what I found out by grovelling around.
User avatar
Sarah MacLeod
 
Posts: 3422
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:39 am

Post » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:58 am

Is this compatible with Korana's Solstheim Castle yet?

To be honest, I don't use that castle and so I don't know if there's a compatibility patch for it.
However, in theory they should work togheter. The worst thing that can happen is that the castle won't have a working kitchen...

[snip]

Thanks Dragon32. The "NoM that mod!" function of Wrye Mash was implemented entirely by Wrye (during my years of absence), so I know really little about how it works. For that reason, I left it untouched during the update, but I'll have to adapt it to the new version sooner or later. :user:
User avatar
Sammygirl
 
Posts: 3378
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 6:15 pm

Post » Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:16 pm

To be honest, I don't use that castle and so I don't know if there's a compatibility patch for it.
However, in theory they should work togheter. The worst thing that can happen is that the castle won't have a working kitchen...


They seem to work together but it's a little rough... Here are my observations:

Korana's ingredients are not NOM compatible, but she states that in her original readme.
The trout is treated as a container, perhaps the useless 'boiled fish' could be replaced with NOM grilled fish?
The NOM ingreds (orange, pear, onion) in the kitchen work fine and match their 3.0 meshes and functions.
The rolling pin in the kitchen works.
There is a cauldron in the kitchen, I'm not sure if it uses an outdated script, it may be better to replace it with a static cooking pot?
The ovens seem to work but none of the fires in the castle seem to work for cooking.
The water barrel in the kitchen instantly fills containers without the sound effects and delay.
There are crates of fruit in the kitchen that could be replaced with respawning fruit boxes from 3.0

Overall it seems that you could play with Solstheim Castle fine but you miss a lot of the bells and whistles of 3.0. A small compatibility patch really couldn't hurt however to enhance the experience

P.S. Taddeus I thought everyone used Solstheim Castle!
User avatar
Clea Jamerson
 
Posts: 3376
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:23 pm

Post » Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:31 pm

I literally could not play the game anymore WITHOUT this mod!
User avatar
sara OMAR
 
Posts: 3451
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:18 pm

Post » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:31 pm

I have been thinking about updating some of Korana's other housemods after I finish with the Ascadian Rose Cottage.
My project list is a little long right now, but I will probably go ahead and do that, when I can.

As I recall, Solsthiem Castle doesn't need any work other than an update for NOM v3.
The work required would be easy, and it wouldn't take me very long... once I got around to it.

I'll consider adding Solsthiem Castle to my project list, after I'm done with the Factor's Estate.
User avatar
Shiarra Curtis
 
Posts: 3393
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:22 pm

Post » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:05 pm

I see two fixes that need to be done so far.

1) Most wells in towns still have their originals from what i see. Mostly causes cosmetic issues.

2) For the sleep/eating penalties, either 1: If you have immunity to diseases, then penalties shouldn't ever come up. 2: Increase the immunity values higher than 100%, since you should never get a disease again. Optionally as part of the script that configures NOM, should they have immunities, remove them and add them again. This way the values update properly.
User avatar
Juan Cerda
 
Posts: 3426
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:49 pm

Post » Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:43 pm

I see two fixes that need to be done so far.
(snip)

2) For the sleep/eating penalties, either 1: If you have immunity to diseases, then penalties shouldn't ever come up. 2: Increase the immunity values higher than 100%, since you should never get a disease again. Optionally as part of the script that configures NOM, should they have immunities, remove them and add them again. This way the values update properly.


I think it comes down to the question of whether or not lack of sleep or starvation is actually a "disease". Disease is usually considered to be an invasion of the body by foreign agents, such as some virus or bacteria. The effects of starvation, dehydration, or lack of sleep are rather more considered as abilities, or more correctly a lessening of ability due to lack of resources needed for health.

I haven't looked, but I think Taddeus intended to create those penalties as abilities rather than as diseases.
User avatar
jenny goodwin
 
Posts: 3461
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:57 am

Post » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:32 pm

I think it comes down to the question of whether or not lack of sleep or starvation is actually a "disease". Disease is usually considered to be an invasion of the body by foreign agents, such as some virus or bacteria. The effects of starvation, dehydration, or lack of sleep are rather more considered as abilities, or more correctly a lessening of ability due to lack of resources needed for health.

I haven't looked, but I think Taddeus intended to create those penalties as abilities rather than as diseases.


Not what i meant. After becoming 'immune' from the corpus cure, i was still getting infected by common diseases and blights. the negative 10-25% drops your immunity to 75-90%, leaving you still susceptible to diseases. Since you are suppose to be immune due to the corpus disease and cure, those negatives shouldn't get you sick and need to get cured no matter how high they get.
User avatar
Nims
 
Posts: 3352
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:29 pm

Post » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:42 pm

Not what i meant. After becoming 'immune' from the corpus cure, i was still getting infected by common diseases and blights. the negative 10-25% drops your immunity to 75-90%, leaving you still susceptible to diseases. Since you are suppose to be immune due to the corpus disease and cure, those negatives shouldn't get you sick and need to get cured no matter how high they get.


I see, I misunderstood what you were saying. I wonder though if immunity is to be considered absolute or immune only under normal circumstances. That'll be for Taddeus to figure out, I suppose.
User avatar
Laura
 
Posts: 3456
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:11 am

Post » Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:21 pm

I see two fixes that need to be done so far.

1) Most wells in towns still have their originals from what i see. Mostly causes cosmetic issues.

2) For the sleep/eating penalties, either 1: If you have immunity to diseases, then penalties shouldn't ever come up. 2: Increase the immunity values higher than 100%, since you should never get a disease again. Optionally as part of the script that configures NOM, should they have immunities, remove them and add them again. This way the values update properly.

1) Consider that when a city in vanilla already had a well, I tried to not touch it to avoid incompatibilities. In these cases I used the same mesh in the same position as the original. Can you make examples of the cosmetic issues you're speaking of?
Ah, if you intend Balmora, I'm thinking to add a fountain there in place of the well.

2) To tell the truth, this is intended. One of the reasons that made me include that penalty is the immunity you get at a certain point of the main quest. I felt that immunity to diseases is a bit overpowered (except from the corprus obviously) and excludes a whole part of the game, so I thought it would be nice to reintroduce them back, even if in a limited way. The idea is: if you're well fed, diseases can't hit you; but if your body is weakened by hunger, then your super defenses are weakened too and you've a small chance of being infected.

Thanks for your feedback. :)
User avatar
Adam
 
Posts: 3446
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:56 pm

Post » Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:58 am

1) Consider that when a city in vanilla already had a well, I tried to not touch it to avoid incompatibilities. In these cases I used the same mesh in the same position as the original. Can you make examples of the cosmetic issues you're speaking of?
Ah, if you intend Balmora, I'm thinking to add a fountain there in place of the well.

2) To tell the truth, this is intended. One of the reasons that made me include that penalty is the immunity you get at a certain point of the main quest. I felt that immunity to diseases is a bit overpowered (except from the corprus obviously) and excludes a whole part of the game, so I thought it would be nice to reintroduce them back, even if in a limited way. The idea is: if you're well fed, diseases can't hit you; but if your body is weakened by hunger, then your super defenses are weakened too and you've a small chance of being infected.

Thanks for your feedback. :)


I like this because as the Nerevarine I still have a way to contract diseases like Porphyric Hemophilia without console cheats. Keep in mind also that the Nerevarine can use lowered immunity spells and potions that have the same effect despite being cured of corprus, so NOM doesn't really break the mechanic.
User avatar
Red Sauce
 
Posts: 3431
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:35 pm

Post » Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:42 pm

2) To tell the truth, this is intended. One of the reasons that made me include that penalty is the immunity you get at a certain point of the main quest. I felt that immunity to diseases is a bit overpowered (except from the corprus obviously) and excludes a whole part of the game, so I thought it would be nice to reintroduce them back, even if in a limited way. The idea is: if you're well fed, diseases can't hit you; but if your body is weakened by hunger, then your super defenses are weakened too and you've a small chance of being infected.


That makes sense, considering it's explained and intended that way. To a degree, the immunities does help, but having all these cure disease/blight potions/scrolls goes to waste.

Although, the fade in/out for the sleep script gets old fast, especially when your low level (less than 5th level) and a bunch of ashlanders attack you as the fade starts, since you can't see, you can't run, you can't dodge the mage's spells and it gets you killed faster than you can react.
User avatar
Mandy Muir
 
Posts: 3307
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:38 pm

Post » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:42 am

That makes sense, considering it's explained and intended that way. To a degree, the immunities does help, but having all these cure disease/blight potions/scrolls goes to waste.

Although, the fade in/out for the sleep script gets old fast, especially when your low level (less than 5th level) and a bunch of ashlanders attack you as the fade starts, since you can't see, you can't run, you can't dodge the mage's spells and it gets you killed faster than you can react.

Well, maybe I can shorten the fade out and/or move it to higher levels of sleep. Suggestions on this purpose from other people using the mod would be really useful.

A little preview of the Balmora fountain that I'll add in the next update. It has four waterfalls on the sides and a spout in the center.
http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy227/_Taddeus_/NOM/BalmFountain02.jpg?t=1288706516
http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy227/_Taddeus_/NOM/BalmFountain01.jpg?t=1288706517
http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy227/_Taddeus_/NOM/BalmFountain03.jpg?t=1288706518

:D
User avatar
Phillip Brunyee
 
Posts: 3510
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:43 pm

Post » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:06 am

Great looking fountain! :)

As for the fade effect, it would make more sense to have it happen only when you're really tired. I'm assuming it is intended to simulate being so tired that you fall asleep standing up. I can go 24 hours without sleep easily, but by 36 hours it's really hard to stay awake without loads of coffee. By 48 hours it's almost impossible without something to help. :D

The burden effect was an ideal solution for the early stages of sleepiness, btw. :)



KF
User avatar
D LOpez
 
Posts: 3434
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:30 pm

Post » Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:23 am

I love coffee myself! What if there was a FOUNTAIN OF COFFEE which could make your Fatigue enhanced for about 2 minutes of game time?
User avatar
CHangohh BOyy
 
Posts: 3462
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:12 pm

Post » Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:42 pm

I think that's what the Sentinel's Eye tisane is for, richard.

Taddeus, realistically, people who are over-tired might voluntarily close their eyes for a longer period of time, but as KF said, actually falling asleep standing up would come along maybe for the first time at moderate sleepiness; however, that one time usually scares a person awake for a while. Maybe make the fade effects shorter and farther apart until you get to severe sleepiness. I also agree that burden is a perfectly realistic effect when a person is tired. In addition, if it wouldn't make the whole thing too script heavy, fatigue is usually lessened during the fight or flight adrenaline response. I believe the effects of light to moderate fatigue would be temporarily lessened during battle, but come back harder after the fight.
User avatar
jasminε
 
Posts: 3511
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:12 am

Post » Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:51 am

In the next update I'll move the fade out to a higher sleep level. At least the first 2 levels (maybe the first 4) will be free from the effect. I'll add this to the to do list. :)
User avatar
Chrissie Pillinger
 
Posts: 3464
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:26 am

Post » Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:39 pm

So far, I'm quite pleased with most of the changes in 3.0.

The only things that caused me some annoyance were:

First, not being able to light a Morrowind Crafting fire anymore in the firepit inside the abruptly vacated house of the suddenly deceased Foryn Gilnith in Seyda Neen. Having a MC cookfire was at least half the reason for occupying the place.

Second, maybe I've got my load order scrambled or something, but it didn't allow me to eat some bread, but was fine with other loaves, and some of the MC raw ingredients (onions, for example) won't stack in inventory or in containers anymore. I'll have to do some more work to rearrange the load order, and see if it changes, but that probably won't happen for a while.

- Also: the mod will automatically select dishes like Stewed Bittergreen or Onion Soup, but it won't accept them if I drop them into the satchel for manual eating. On top of that, if I eat a couple of items (such as Grilled Meat and some crabmeat) manually after the prompt and "belly growl", I get a "Well Fed" icon, but an hour later it will still automatically select another item from inventory to eat. The above mentioned problem with the bread may be a case where it's not manually selectable, but can still be "auto-selected" by the program. Not being able to intentionally eat a loaf of bread seems a little odd.
User avatar
Ross
 
Posts: 3384
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:22 pm

PreviousNext

Return to III - Morrowind