[Chantelle Walker]

Bottles? Just bottles? I can live with new NoM specific bottles. What I'm worried about is not NoM specific items, like the original liquors (matze, sujamma, cyrolic brandy etc) as I've already replaced most of those and those bottles have never to my knowledge shown various levels of fullness in NoM - and I think you mentioned glasses too. Those are things that aren't NoM specific and I'd rather have them in a separate replacer for two reasons, so that they get proper attention from those looking for misc item replacers and so that they're easier to pick and choose from for install.

I second this.

[Sakura Haruno]

As _Taddeus_ has said, you'll simply need to reinstall your replacers for those items after installing NOM. This will have the effect of NOM-specific bottles having the NOM textures and all other bottles being the texture of your choice. Let's please not make this harder on _Taddeus_ than it has to be, when all the player has to do is reinstall his/her desired texture replacer.

[Doniesha World]

I'm not trying to make it harder - I'm trying to limit the hardship. If those items aren't necessary and can easily be replaced, then they're a good bit of time potentially taken away from items that are necessary and not easily replaced. If they're more of a stylistic flourish than a vital inclusion then why not put them aside as an extra so energy can be concentrated on the vital bits? As Taddeus mentioned previously NoM 3.0 grows everyday with new ideas and meshes and some things will simply have to wait for later. Why add Matze and Sujamma to the pile of work already on his plate?

But in the end :shrug: Modders do what they want to do, I for the most part just ask questions and point in hopefully helpful directions. If Taddeus is married to his vanilla bits so it'll be.

[Causon-Chambers]

actually there was someone who was coming out with an updated bottle replacer that looks great. Instead of having a glassy/plastic look, they would look like smoothed, stained glass.

[Donatus Uwasomba]

Bottles? Just bottles? I can live with new NoM specific bottles. What I'm worried about is not NoM specific items, like the original liquors (matze, sujamma, cyrolic brandy etc) as I've already replaced most of those and those bottles have never to my knowledge shown various levels of fullness in NoM - and I think you mentioned glasses too. Those are things that aren't NoM specific and I'd rather have them in a separate replacer for two reasons, so that they get proper attention from those looking for misc item replacers and so that they're easier to pick and choose from for install.

I'm replacing only the "unused" bottles from the vanilla game. I don't remember mentioning local drinks (Sujamma, Mazte, etc) because I like them as they are; they can use a little smoothing and higher definition textures, but I suppose there are already mods for this. I'm not replacing glasses either, as they're essentially not touched by NoM.
I could work on Cyrodiilic Brandy and other imported drinks as they look like retextured potions to me. But I can live with them. They're not a big problem like seeing an empty bottle marked like beer.

As _Taddeus_ has said, you'll simply need to reinstall your replacers for those items after installing NOM. This will have the effect of NOM-specific bottles having the NOM textures and all other bottles being the texture of your choice. Let's please not make this harder on _Taddeus_ than it has to be, when all the player has to do is reinstall his/her desired texture replacer.

Yes, it will take one minute to reinstall whichever replacer one likes more. And since those replacers are esp-less the chance of conflicts is zero.

[Red Bevinz]

I'm replacing only the "unused" bottles from the vanilla game. I don't remember mentioning local drinks (Sujamma, Mazte, etc) because I like them as they are; they can use a little smoothing and higher definition textures, but I suppose there are already mods for this. I'm not replacing glasses either, as they're essentially not touched by NoM.
I could work on Cyrodiilic Brandy and other imported drinks as they look like retextured potions to me. But I can live with them. They're not a big problem like seeing an empty bottle marked like beer.

See that's what I was trying to be clear on. I do have nice new 'unused' vanilla bottle meshes and textures in my game as well but those I don't mind swapping out for these more immersive meshes. I don't think the original replacers are esp-less but I can't check without being able to get onto my gaming rig.

[Danny Blight]

See that's what I was trying to be clear on. I do have nice new 'unused' vanilla bottle meshes and textures in my game as well but those I don't mind swapping out for these more immersive meshes. I don't think the original replacers are esp-less but I can't check without being able to get onto my gaming rig.

If you can point me to the replacer you're using for local brews I'll check it out.

[Anna S]

This definitely has an esp, I remember because I always go "wth is BLLDV" when I see it in my load order. Should really change its name. BLLDV (Better Looking Liquor, Drugs, and Vials: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27167
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/27167-5-1252914539.jpg

Morrowind 2006: http://www.elricm.com/nuke/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&req=viewdownloaddetails&lid=2354

This ones only for the bottles your replacing, I'm ok with losing it: Bottle Replacer: http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=3583

[Schel[Anne]FTL]

This definitely has an esp, I remember because I always go "wth is BLLDV" when I see it in my load order. Should really change its name. BLLDV (Better Looking Liquor, Drugs, and Vials: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27167
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/27167-5-1252914539.jpg

Morrowind 2006: http://www.elricm.com/nuke/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&req=viewdownloaddetails&lid=2354

According to the readme, BLLDV has two versions, an esp one and an esp-less one. You could use the latter to avoid conflicts (as it is, the esp version already conflicts with the 2.13 version of NoM). Or you could open the esp with Tesame and remove the changes it makes to the beverages also affected by NoM.

Morrowind 2006 doesn't seems to make changes conflicting with mines.

[Micah Judaeah]

Taddeus, have you already included the NoM_Lactose global variable in your v3.0 for the Lactose Intolerance mod? It's a short global with a value of zero, right?

[jessica sonny]

Would NoM be the kind of mod to accommodate Skooma addiction? Maybe even Skooma Dens and Skooma Dealers. Just thought id put it out there since theres already a Drunken affect for alchohal so why not Addiction and withdrawls?

[James Rhead]

Would NoM be the kind of mod to accommodate Skooma addiction? Maybe even Skooma Dens and Skooma Dealers. Just thought id put it out there since theres already a Drunken affect for alchohal so why not Addiction and withdrawls?

There are a few mods for that already. While there is a long standing tradition of alcohol being both a nutrient and a thirst quencher (older beers and mead's are full of vitamins and minerals and were often standard drinks in areas where drinking water was highly suspect) I've never heard of anyone thinking that smoking or shooting up a drug gave them nourishment, so I'd say they're oranges and apples :shrug:

[SamanthaLove]

There are a few mods for that already. While there is a long standing tradition of alcohol being both a nutrient and a thirst quencher (older beers and mead's are full of vitamins and minerals and were often standard drinks in areas where drinking water was highly suspect) I've never heard of anyone thinking that smoking or shooting up a drug gave them nourishment, so I'd say they're oranges and apples :shrug:

True true I understand just thought Id throw it out there you know?And I know there are. there arent Many though at least noticeable ones since the only one ive found Requires MCA an Im not really looking into adding a whole bunch of NPCs Anyway I dont wanna get off topic I just wanted to put the idea out there just to see what people think.

[Jamie Moysey]

Taddeus, have you already included the NoM_Lactose global variable in your v3.0 for the Lactose Intolerance mod? It's a short global with a value of zero, right?

I've not yet added the variable, but it's in the "to do" list. It will be a short variable with a base value of zero. It will become 1 for some time when you eat cheese or anything containing lactose.

Would NoM be the kind of mod to accommodate Skooma addiction? Maybe even Skooma Dens and Skooma Dealers. Just thought id put it out there since theres already a Drunken affect for alchohal so why not Addiction and withdrawls?

While I like the idea of an all-round drug mod, it is out of the scope of NoM.

[roxanna matoorah]

True true I understand just thought Id throw it out there you know?And I know there are. there arent Many though at least noticeable ones since the only one ive found Requires MCA an Im not really looking into adding a whole bunch of NPCs Anyway I dont wanna get off topic I just wanted to put the idea out there just to see what people think.

I know. Have you tried http://www.fliggerty.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=1126&p=18689&hilit=druglord#p18689 it doesn't require MCA and features drug addiction and a lot more.

[Dan Endacott]

I've not yet added the variable, but it's in the "to do" list. It will be a short variable with a base value of zero. It will become 1 for some time when you eat cheese or anything containing lactose.

How long does it last when it changes to 1? I don't know anything about global variables. Will it be able to work with effects that will last four in-game hours?

[Andy durkan]

How long does it last when it changes to 1? I don't know anything about global variables. Will it be able to work with effects that will last four in-game hours?

It will stay 1 for several hours; I'm thinking to make it reset to 0 right before every lunch and dinner.
You need to build a script that starts when it detects that the NoM_lactose variable is 1. After that, you can pretty much forget about the variable, because it's only a condition to start your script.

Speaking of the progress, while I search for new glass textures, I worked on the campfire a bit and added a skewer to it. In the new NoM version you'll be able to roast meat and fishes without a grill (although the grilled versions will give you more benefits) and so I had to adapt the campfire model.
Here it is in a http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy227/_Taddeus_/NOM/CampfireNifskope.jpg?t=1275988049 and in a http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy227/_Taddeus_/NOM/Campfire.jpg?t=1275988021.

As you may notice, in that second shot I set up the campfire very close to Thirsk. This would not be possible in the current (2.13) version of NoM, because there are control scripts to avoid that the player can set up a camp in a town or in a building. These controls are still present, but I made them much more accurate using an original idea by Toccatta from the old NoM threads and modifying it here and there. Basically, in the current version, the game prohibits you from placing a campfire in cells which have a certain name. So if you are in the cell "Thirsk", you can't build a camp even if you are very far from the buildings. In the new version, this check is no more based on cell names, but on the distance from a square activator hidden underground. This allows to follow the town borders with a certain accuracy and will avoid problems when one's far away from the buildings.
In these screenshots you can see what I did:
http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy227/_Taddeus_/NOM/IllegalGnisis.jpg?t=1275988150
http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy227/_Taddeus_/NOM/IllegalCaldera.jpg?t=1275988152
http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy227/_Taddeus_/NOM/IllegalAhemmusa.jpg?t=1275988155
http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy227/_Taddeus_/NOM/IllegalMolagMar.jpg?t=1275988157
http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy227/_Taddeus_/NOM/IllegalMaarGan.jpg?t=1275988160
http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy227/_Taddeus_/NOM/IllegalSadrith.jpg?t=1275988181
In the area in the squares it's illegal to build a fire or set up a bedroll. You won't see them in game because I dragged them underground after taking those shots, but they'll be there to check.

The best part is that the square activator can be easily used by anyone to add this feature to new mods, while in the 2.13 version this is not possible. Just drag it to the game world in the CS, resize it if needed, and all the area within will be off-limits to camping.

[Nicholas C]

The best part is that the square activator can be easily used by anyone to add this feature to new mods, while in the 2.13 version this is not possible. Just drag it to the game world in the CS, resize it if needed, and all the area within will be off-limits to camping.

Now that IS useful!

[Tracey Duncan]

Im not sure if you considered this. But,its an Idea Why not a portable stove/Oven? Not just something you can carry but something you can place in your your house and use it indoors or within city limits I noticed that you cant cook indoors or outdoors in cities and so you cant cook foods intown.Otherwise youd have to leave and go out into the wilderness to cook a piece of meat and a few vegitables

[Marine Arrègle]

This is seriously going to be an epic patch to an old classic.
Some brilliant ideas, and the new meshes and textures are amazing.
Can't wait.

And I can't believe the current NOM checks names. This new idea is just AWESOME.

[Alex Blacke]

Im not sure if you considered this. But,its an Idea Why not a portable stove/Oven? Not just something you can carry but something you can place in your your house and use it indoors or within city limits I noticed that you cant cook indoors or outdoors in cities and so you cant cook foods intown.Otherwise youd have to leave and go out into the wilderness to cook a piece of meat and a few vegitables

If an indoor location doesn't have one of those hidden "activator" squares, then you could theoretically cook indoors, unless that's prevented by a second check for indoor/outdoor location. Some types of cooking equipment could be left usable in one, but prohibited in the other.

[jesse villaneda]

I think there is some confusion. All the NOM ovens, fires, cauldrons and such will still be usable in towns, just as beds will be. The activator squares are only to prevent PC's from camping too close to towns; the only thing you won't be able to do is throw out your bedroll and/or light a campfire.


_Taddeus_, the new campfire looks fantastic! Just as an experienced Adventurer would make. I'm truly amazed at the work which must have gone into revamping the way checks are made in the proximity of towns. That's genius and I'll bet it does get implemented by other people.

One thing I've been thinking about, though. I think it makes perfect sense that certain food sellers and publicans might allow the use of their ovens for the public and paying customers, but don't you think it's od that you can walk into someone else's house and use their fireplace/oven/cookware without even asking? They just stand there staring at you, but do nothing. It's nothing earth-shattering or anything, just something that pops into my mind as I'm brewing soup in someone's cauldron and not even offering to share.

[Assumptah George]

Im not sure if you considered this. But,its an Idea Why not a portable stove/Oven? Not just something you can carry but something you can place in your your house and use it indoors or within city limits I noticed that you cant cook indoors or outdoors in cities and so you cant cook foods intown.Otherwise youd have to leave and go out into the wilderness to cook a piece of meat and a few vegitables.

You can cook from every fire or oven you find in town and in the next release there will be more of them. I'm also planning a compatible version of Barabus' Fireplaces, so the whole "civilized" world should be covered.

And I can't believe the current NOM checks names.

Well, NoM will continue to check names, but only for interiors. For example, all the interior cells whose name starts with Balmora, Pelagiad, etc will be off-limits to camping. In version 2.13 this was done for the exterior cells too, but I had to change it as it was too inaccurate.
If you own a house in Balmora or in any other forbidden area, I'm creating an activator that forces an interior to be legal despite of its name. So you (or the house creator) just have to add it hidden somewhere.

One thing I've been thinking about, though. I think it makes perfect sense that certain food sellers and publicans might allow the use of their ovens for the public and paying customers, but don't you think it's od that you can walk into someone else's house and use their fireplace/oven/cookware without even asking? They just stand there staring at you, but do nothing. It's nothing earth-shattering or anything, just something that pops into my mind as I'm brewing soup in someone's cauldron and not even offering to share.

NPC's don't react if you use an activator that they own, so there's no fast solution for this. I could add a different script that checks if you're detected while using private ovens and applies a fine, but I don't want to add too much controls, as they can become frustrating to someone.

Ok, now the campfire casts light, too! I got this trick by Alexir in the old NoM threads (lots of useful info there...).
http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy227/_Taddeus_/NOM/DarkNight.jpg?t=1276017282
http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy227/_Taddeus_/NOM/Campfire-1.jpg?t=1276017281

Also, I divided the controls in 2 sections.
The first (and widely used) forbids the use of fire and bedroll.
The second forbids the use of the fire only, for places where sleeping in bedroll is allowed. I used the second one for the Thirsk exterior: since they greet you saying that you can sleep in your bedroll wherever you want, it looked weird that you couldn't put out a bedroll outside of the building. My doubt is: should I use this second control (fire prohibited, bedroll allowed) for the four ashlander camps exteriors? In any case, you won't able to camp inside their tents.

[Vickytoria Vasquez]

You can cook from every fire or oven you find in town and in the next release there will be more of them. I'm also planning a compatible version of Barabus' Fireplaces, so the whole "civilized" world should be covered.


Well, NoM will continue to check names, but only for interiors. For example, all the interior cells whose name starts with Balmora, Pelagiad, etc will be off-limits to camping. In version 2.13 this was done for the exterior cells too, but I had to change it as it was too inaccurate.
If you own a house in Balmora or in any other forbidden area, I'm creating an activator that forces an interior to be legal despite of its name. So you (or the house creator) just have to add it hidden somewhere.


NPC's don't react if you use an activator that they own, so there's no fast solution for this. I could add a different script that checks if you're detected while using private ovens and applies a fine, but I don't want to add too much controls, as they can become frustrating to someone.

Ok, now the campfire casts light, too! I got this trick by Alexir in the old NoM threads (lots of useful info there...).
http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy227/_Taddeus_/NOM/DarkNight.jpg?t=1276017282
http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy227/_Taddeus_/NOM/Campfire-1.jpg?t=1276017281

Also, I divided the controls in 2 sections.
The first (and widely used) forbids the use of fire and bedroll.
The second forbids the use of the fire only, for places where sleeping in bedroll is allowed. I used the second one for the Thirsk exterior: since they greet you saying that you can sleep in your bedroll wherever you want, it looked weird that you couldn't put out a bedroll outside of the building. My doubt is: should I use this second control (fire prohibited, bedroll allowed) for the four ashlander camps exteriors? In any case, you won't able to camp inside their tents.

If it's possible to get permission to stay in the camp, "enabling" an activator would be perfect.

[K J S]

If it's possible to get permission to stay in the camp, "enabling" an activator would be perfect.

Certainly in the main quest, once one gets accepted into one of the ashlander tribes, there should be no restrictions on either fires or bedrolls within that camp. (sheesh, it's been so long since I've actually bothered to solve the main quest that I don't even remember which ashlander camp the Nerevarine gets adopted into. Maybe it's time to play that part again!)