Do you think it's evil? A couple of examples would help us decide.

Mannimarco destroyed part of the Mages' Guild. But why? Galerion (Founder of the Mages' Guild) attacked him for being a necromancer many, many years ago. He also wants to 'destroy' Arkay. Why? So that he doesn't die.

Another example. Aesliip became a lich. Why? To protect his people.

The schools of magic are tools, the people are the weapon.

Destruction mages, they learn only how to inflict harm.
Illusion mages, they learn how to distort reality with false images, and can magically charm and brainwash people to do their bidding (Jagar Tharn took over the empire this way)
Conjurers constantly make deals with daedroth, and must have focus at all times or be consumed by the daedroth they summoned.
Mystics can steal your soul
Restoration practitioners can svck the life out of you (mystics in MW)
Alteration experts can make that cloth shirt you are wearing weigh 1000lbs.

It really all depends on how magic is used by the practitioner.

For those who say it's evil, explain why, without mentioning Mannimarco. Why is practicing necromancy evil, not the actions of the practitioner.

Hellmouth, I couldn't agree more. Each school can be used for good or evil. Even destruction can be used for help (drain fatigue on someone to help them sleep), even restoration can be used for harm (absorb health)

Ah but necromancy always does harm. You still have to desecrate someones body and that way you are not allowing them to rest in peace. And also if you awaken ghost there spirit can't rest.

Or I can use necromancy to put a soul back into a body (ressurection) which can be considered good.

Uhh...you are using a corpse, whose soul has already left and is now being recycled in the Dreamsleeve. The only way it wouldn't be at rest is if you performed some mysticism and kept the soul (which is not exclusive to necromancy). Heck, the dunmer see using the body of a worthless relative to guard places is holy (when performed by the Temple). Also, a redguard prince's soul was trapped in a soulgem, for the express purpose of trying to resurrect him. However, there was a bit of an oops, and the soul transferred itself into Cyrus's sword at the end of the game.

Mysticism is more evil in that regard, Vesp.

Perhaps it all depends on why one does it; for some it's crossing the line for power and knowledge, at which point there's little holding them back from sinking further and further into depravity for their own gain, while for others, such as the Dunmer and Aesliip, it's an act of devotion and duty for one's kin, thus why they are able to show restraint.

Indeed. The motives and the end result are what can be considered good or evil. Not the methods used. Of course necromancy offers quite a lot of power which attracts crazy unstable megalomaniacs who are likely to cause loads of trouble. So it tends to get associated with evil.

I also refer you to this http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1150976-necromancy/

As to becoming a lich something similar applies. Only s select few would choose to turn themselves into such a thing and those are likely to be evil so liches tend to be evil. Or at least attack those who disturb their research. So don't disturb liches doing research or you might end up asking for trouble. They didn't go through the whole process to be disturbed by any random adventurer

Seems like those fluent in TES lore say it's not, and those who are say it is.

Why does it have to be good or evil?

Necromancy and lichcraft themselves are just tools not things with morality, but the practitioners can easily be evil.

Obviously all necromancy is evil; why else would the Mages Guild not want it to be practiced.... unless they were just looking for a scapegoat....

Anyways, I personally see it like this: A sword can be used to help people, or to harm them. Same thing as necromancy; it is just a tool that can be used for "good" or "evil" purposes based on its wielder's choices.

I've always pictured necromancy as being akin to the study of anatomy and physiology and it can be used for various purposes, hence it is not inherently evil. Lichcraft is something powerful wizards seem to turn to in order to extend their lives, but again, it is used in various ways. A person can use the time gained as a lich to study for the cure to or they can use the time to learn how to take over the world, for two contrasting examples. The arts themselves are not evil. Similarly, the school of destruction, being inherently destructive, can be used for self defense by those who may be considered good or the school of destruction can be used to take over hte world. There are different uses for it and it can't be labeled as good or evil. My stance on necromancy and lichcraft are the same.

[censored], everyone's all p about necromancy amnd. Why's it so cool, all of a sudden?

Yes, it's evil. Don't give a [censored].

Good and Evil are nothing but standpoints.

Consider the healer who dabbles in necromancy to better learn to heal the living. In real life, this led to a profession called Body Snatching (some people still call it Burking, I think). Modern medicine isn't evil - and neither is necromancy particularly evil.

The only province to outlaw necromancy outright is Morrowind - who revere their ancestors. I believe that High Rock allows for the bodies of criminals and pirates to be donated to medical colleges/necromancers. The Altmer are known to try to extend their lifespans any which way they can, so it's not unheard of for necromancy to be practiced in their homeland (but don't make plans to practice there. They prosecute non-Altmer ferociously for necromancy).


Necromancy is a tool, not a force of evil.

In many cases, people actually give the necromancer access to their body and soul to be used after death. The most prominent cultural examples are the Ghost Fence and the tombs of Morrowind. This was state-sanctioned necromancy and considered a part of traditional ancestor worship.

Exactly, and necromancy fits into the standpoint of evil, since you've established that dichotomy. :homestar:

http://www.ask.com/web?q=Is+moral+relativism+boring+and+therefore+wrong&search=&qsrc=http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topic/1153902-necromancy-and-lichcraft/0&o=10181&l=dir

Within the Mages Guild, to practice necromancy is to cross a line established long ago, unless done with Guild sanction, thus with a great deal of restrictions. To a member of the Mages Guild, once you embrace necromancy and transgress against the Guild's rules, you've crossed the line, and from then on it's a bit easier to cross other lines, such as breaking Imperial Law to acquire corpses without having to pay money. After a while it seems some of them grow to enjoy the killing part of illegal necromancy. However, this slippery slope is less evident with the Dunmer, not only because the line seems to be drawn at binding and summoning those who aren't your kin for reasons other than protecting their descendants, but also because those that most frequently cross that line are the Telvanni, and are already pretty devoid of morals or scruples. But as I've said before, ancestor worshipers almost never cross the line, they live their lives, and later unlives, in faith and devotion to their family.

I gave a very good example of necromancy which was not necessarily evil.

You gave a very good example of something-that-looks-alot-like-necromancy-but-isn't which was not necessarily evil. :flamed:

http://static.zenimax.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/cookie.gif

Stop lying to yourself.

"Necromancy is evil," says someone.

"No, it's not," replies a scholar, "They only use the bodies mostly, it's legal, and in the past hte Mages' Guild has been fine. And Dunmer use their ancestor's spirits to guard their tombs."

"Necromancy. Is. Evil. I don't care how you put it," the person responds.

The scholar facepalms, "I knew I should've lived in Vvardenfell..."

Don't believe me, ask an Ashlander. :nod:

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?

Obviously, the Dunmer and the Imperials have slightly different views on what necromancy is. And given it's an artificial construct to categorize magic, can either one be truly correct?