Necromancy and the Soul Cairn : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:19 am

Alright, so I always thought it was silly that in Oblivion, the undead were literally summoned as if I were to summon a daedra. I always thought this seemed kind of silly as you never see them actually resurrect the fallen or any such thing. It has just occurred to me however, that they may have summoning from the Soul Cairn along. We are even able to:

Spoiler

obtain a wrathman summon

Alright, we also know that there are other ghosts and also bonemen in Battlespire, so I have a theory. I think that Mannimarco made a pact with the Ideal Masters in order to learn how to make black soul gems, and in exchange, he was taught how to summon the servants of the Soul Cairn, knowledge that was circulated through Cyrodil and even popped up in a spell shop or two, and was used exclusively by the servants of the Black Worm.

Thoughts?

» Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:42 am

It's a plausible explanation for the existence of Summon Undead in earlier games. They're technically from Oblivion, being trapped in a realm of it.

I personally believe Mannimarco actually is one of the Ideal Masters, though. It's stated by Serana they no longer need to take physical form. If we remember, Mannimarco ascended to godhood of sorts but the Jills of Akatosh made him mortal again. I believe the piece of him that stayed Divine became one of the Ideal Masters, and that black moon that appears in Cyrodill is a portal to the Soul Cairn. If you'll notice, the Soul Cairn has a huge gaping hole in its sky. Perhaps a window to Nirn.

» Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:25 pm

It's a plausible explanation for the existence of Summon Undead in earlier games. They're technically from Oblivion, being trapped in a realm of it.

I personally believe Mannimarco actually is one of the Ideal Masters, though. It's stated by Serana they no longer need to take physical form. If we remember, Mannimarco ascended to godhood of sorts but the Jills of Akatosh made him mortal again. I believe the piece of him that stayed Divine became one of the Ideal Masters, and that black moon that appears in Cyrodill is a portal to the Soul Cairn. If you'll notice, the Soul Cairn has a huge gaping hole in its sky. Perhaps a window to Nirn.

Well, that would imply that the Soul Cairn is the moon, which would actually be weird if it was from Oblivion.

» Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:38 pm

Necromancer's Moon is part of Soul Cairn, or other way around? Given the connection between Soul Cairn and black soul gems, this is interesting theory.

» Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:04 pm

The last time I checked the Necromancer's Moon is supposed to orbit Arkay, so I don't think it would be an Oblivion realm.

» Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:18 am

The last time I checked the Necromancer's Moon is supposed to orbit Arkay, so I don't think it would be an Oblivion realm.

Right, I forgot about that.

» Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:41 am

According to Morrowind's conjuration descriptions, they're summoned from the Outer Realms or Oblivion depending on the particular spell. It might simply depend on the conjurer or necromancer on where it's summoned from.

Spoiler

This effect summons an ancestral ghost from the Outer Realms. It appears six feet in front of the caster and attacks any entity that attacks the caster until the effect ends or the summoning is killed. At death, or when the effect ends, the summoning disappears, returning to the Outer Realms. If summoned in town, the guards will attack you and the summoning on sight.

This effect summons a bonelord from the Outer Realms. It appears six feet in front of the caster and attacks any entity that attacks the caster until the effect ends or the summoning is killed. At death, or when the effect ends, the summoning disappears, returning to the Outer Realms. If summoned in town, the guards will attack you and the summoning on sight.

This effect summons a lesser bonewalker from the Outer Realms. It appears six feet in front of the caster and attacks any entity that attacks the caster until the effect ends or the summoning is killed. At death, or when the effect ends, the summoning disappears, returning to the Outer Realms. If summoned in town, the guards will attack you and the summoning on sight.

This effect summons a greater bonewalker from Oblivion. It appears six feet in front of the caster and attacks any entity that attacks the caster until the effect ends or the summoning is killed. At death, or when the effect ends, the summoning disappears, returning to Oblivion. If summoned in town, the guards will attack you and the summoning on sight.

This effect summons a skeletal minion from Oblivion. It appears six feet in front of the caster and attacks any entity that attacks the caster until the effect ends or the summoning is killed. At death, or when the effect ends, the summoning disappears, returning to Oblivion. If summoned in town, the guards will attack you and the summoning on sight.