Everyone must, I repeat, must be able to uniformly jump no higher than a small fence...anything more is just stretching the realism too far.

Now when it comes to the walking on the water, the screeching people to death, shooting the lightning bolts from finger tips, raising the dead, becoming a wearwolf, becoming invisible.... ALL acceptable. But the high jumping is too far, I say!

It's not a choice, if you always choose it.

There's no way somebody won't sprint or jump in their game, so they can focus on other skills. The whole "don't use it" argument don't work, because you have to use it.

way to math, if all your skill start out around 10 or 15, you would have 9 levels from the proposed 100 acro skill, and 3 levels each from the two at 40, =level 15, not even close to 80

But mainly I think the point people are missing is the transition from being forced to level smartly and the more lax system in place now, you don't need to power level an acro skill because it won't effect your speed like in past games, unless they added a perk which you only need to get once instead of every level having to concentrate on getting it.

Best ideas in the thread so far IMO: Racial ability for Khajit and/or merging it with the stealth tree/creating a physicality tree

Since I first heard that Skyrim would be released in November, I'd been planning my character: a lithe agile Khajiit thief with high Acrobatics and Athletics; I would train her in parkour. Sigh ...

I was saying this before the game was even released. I've given up on them having the integrity to restore their games to the glory they once were.

Did you even read my post? Have the first perk in the proposed athletics tree provide the ability to gain experience using sprint. Without that perk, sprinting would not generate experience.

Normal jumping via pressing space would do the same. No experience would be generated unless you held down space to do a power jump, and you wouldn't need to use the power jump because all of the terrain in this game was designed to be traveled without even needing to use regular jumps. You could even take it a step further and make it so that the power jump was a later perk and that the first perk was the ONLY way to unlock your ability to gain experience in this skill. Without the perk, you wouldn't gain any experience in it ever, and you'd never have to worry about it interfering with your oh-so-precious efficient leveling.

Happy now?

I don't want it as in oblivion but sure... a bit more ''moving skills'' would be great!

Yes.

More options > less options.

I absolutely agree that climbing is sorely missing from Skyrim. It seemed to add a whole new dimension to Daggerfall and with technology now, it would be way better. I loved loved loved how far and high you could jump in Daggerfall. I too would climb houses and run away from guards or sneak in places. Combined with climbing it was great. I do not think however that the jumping part was critical, nor having Athletics and Acrobatics as skills you can level. Even climbing doesn't need to be a skill, you just need to be able to do it.

Now, I think we can reach a compromise. Build in the movement physics that Assassins Creed has (running, jumping, and climbing) - add in a rope arrow/grappling hook (ala Thief or Tenchu) and you have yourself quite a game.

I don't think we need those back.

While I do miss the jump height, adding in acrobatics would be entirely meaningless.

I like the "second story thief" concept. The rooftop to rooftop traveler. The thing is, none of this is useful in Skyrim. Too few buildings, if any have meaningful second story access (maybe the village general store) to justify an acrobatics or even a climbing skill.

Without the terrain or design acrobatics simply becomes a useless skill players would accidentally level from. With the current leveling system this could hurt players due to scaling.

Also, each major skill group has 6 skills each. Adding in Acrobatics forces the need for two new skills to maintain symmetry among the major skill types. Athletics was mentioned, but once again, its difficult to define a skill tree around just going faster. Also, once again, accidental leveling.

Personally, I would have loved to see the addition of unarmed combat and mysticism as skills. Unarmed just because its nearly viable with the way the damage is calculated now (have a buddy that indeed punched a dragon to death, since the perk causes heavy armour to be highly effective, and crazy smithed daedric gauntlets have a stupid high armour rating). And Mysticism as there are some cool spells they could of added (mark/recall for indoor areas, short range teleports, etc.)

Skills themselves, no.
What they did, yes.

Climbing needs to be in, but not as a skill.
Better jumping needs to be in, but not as a skill.
Rolling and Active Dodging needs to be in, but not as a skill (yes I know this is part of Stealth perk now partially).

How about instead of skills making Jumping Height and Running Speed attributes alongside of Health, Magicka, and Stamina?

But jumping height has to be taken into consideration with level design: so not till the next game unfortunately.

You are forced to sprint about as much as you are forced to stealth in the game. As in you are never really forced, but it would be logical to do it in a lot of places. Which is the same thing you can say for a lot of skills. So this argument of your has no merit whatsoever.

Yea----es. Really miss this.

I for one want athletics back. It did give more options to assassins/thieves/vampires etc and I see no harm in it. It could simply put as a perk in a larger tree which controlled running speed and stamina regeneration. It could also be made easily so that, because of the obvious fact it should level relatively quickly, level increases take longer within the skill and that they have less of an effect on overall experience points leading to an actual level up.

As long as rolling is never put into combat.. rolling in combat is stupid. A better option would simply be an ability to cause a side/back/forward-step by jumping in a direction while in combat; whereby you take a step around the opponent, or 'lunge' forward/backwards rather than jumping. These are basic skills in pretty much all combat arts and is much more useful that rolling. It'd also give you situational defence against both horizontal and vertical attacks.

I agree that the game isn't designed with it in mind, and because of it there wouldn't be as many uses, and that's a shame. It doesn't mean it would be entirely meaningless, though. Morrowind didn't exactly design the world around acrobatics. Some few areas were, and some were designed around levitation, but by and large the world was as accessable to someone with 5 acrobatics and no magic as it was to a vampire with 150 acrobatics and a levitation power.


I've made two posts in this thread earlier proposing how to remedy that problem, wherein the first perk in the tree would provide a small bonus (5% faster run speed, for example) and also allow jumping and sprinting to give XP towards athletics (to be merged with acrobatics). Without the perk, no XP is gained, and thus no accidental leveling. Would this system be ok, in your opinion?


Why do they need to maintain symmetry? There's no reason whatsoever for the 3 skill categories to have the same number of skills associated with them, but for the sake of argument: Athletics could be merged with acrobatics and hand-to-hand could be added into that, as well, making the tree much more than just "going faster". For the combat and magic skill trees, you could have spear and - as you suggested - mysticism.


I support this. I'd like to see Oblivion's dodge make a return, but with a different animation. They've done it before, why not again?

What if you want faster movement, yet you don't want it as a main skill, in other words, you don't want to max it out?

At most it would work as a multi-level perk in another skill, like light armor.


So because I don't want to wait out until I slowly walk or jog to the next town, I should be forced to train athletics?

I agree with this. Khajiit should clearly jump the highest and move the fastest. Then Argonians, then Bosmer. Everyone else can stay the same. But those three should be more athletic and jumpy.

And to Bukee.....uh duh, if you RUN from city to city you WOULD become very athletic. Running is training, no one is forcing you to run.

Those skills shouldn't have been removed.

Climbing should've made a return as well. There have been so many occasions where i've tried to deviate slightly from the set path when climbing a mountain, only to get the invisible wall effect on a steep slope. A climbing skill would be perfect in situations like that. Instead, i've found myself having to increase my jump height slightly in console just so I can hop my way up such slopes.

Everytime I realize that I do not have to jump from town to town I thank the Nine that Acrobatics is gone.

So because I want money I should be forced to train speachcraft?

And besides the jog speed is pretty damn fast, or hell buy a horse.

I'd like to see them all being replaced with a body development skill, that holds perks related to swimming, running, and jumping. You'll get a steady increase in skill throughout the game weather you want it or not, but the result of that skill is governed by how much you put into stamina.

You can be a professional marathon runner, but if you're sick and have no stamina, you won't be able to perform. Makes sense to me.

The regular stamina output to sprinting is reduced, but can be brought up again by spending points on running perks. One set for long distance running and one set for speed running. It's a passive perk, meaning you only have to sprint to activate it. Long distance running depletes stamina just as sprinting does now, whereas fast running makes you run faster at the cost of depleting stamina much quicker.

For jumping, it would be different. To activate skill based jumping, you either combine it with sprinting to get long jumps, or "double space taps" to activate high jumping. Another perk here would be "air control" which lets you control your character in mid air (change direction, stop etc). Jumping would need to change AI behavior so that they hide if you become unreachable, instead of being dumb as sitting ducks. Probably hard to change at this point.

Swimming could also be much better, taking buoyancy into account. With no perks assigned, being too heavy might sink you if you're too heavy. To stay afloat you have to direct the force upward. To more obvious other perks are speed (in water) and breath amount.

Yet still, I don't want any of this to become as ridiculous as in Oblivion where your speed became silly and way too high. Similar with acrobatics whose perks now are found in the armor perks (reduced fall damage), Oblivion made the skill look silly.

As for climbing, yes thanks, but I have no idea how to implement anything in relation to that without possibly breaking certain features of the game. I think for climbing to occur, the game would have to be redesigned significantly to allow it back.

Athletics and Acrobatics skills can go svck it and rot in Oblivion for all I care, unwanted levels is unwanted levels.

Doesn't mean they can't exist in the game in other ways.

Someone earlier in this thread suggested it but of course people ignored the point so I'll repeat it: Insert Athletics/Acrobatics into the perk tree system, either as specific nodes or its own tree (I'd think it would work better in nodes).