Need gameplay opinions for my mod : IV - Oblivion

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:53 pm

Replying here since the main thread is just as inactive.

I know I'm being impatient - I really would like feedback from the author on this mod - it seems as time goes on that it is abandoned. You posted this and got a few of us excited and I even took the plunge to add it in and make it a big part of my load order.

My current situation is I need to understand how this mod works better.

If I chose force mage as a spell class - then should I get new spells at each level or do I need to up the skills to get the new spells?

I'm using Realistic Leveling and Progress with 5x slower leveling. My character leveled to 2 and I was expecting some kind of new spell, but nothing - nothing at all. I did get the book and after the mod initialized and swept away all other spells then I got the inventory box and chose force mage and got a few buffer spells, but then that is it. Level 2 and I still have the same spells.

This is making think that adding a mod that makes learning from spells possible is a good idea. But then since there is no good mod for that - that does not check stats or limit this learning then why not just disable this and go back to buying spells which actually would be more of a challenge than just adding spells from every scroll I encounter?

Please - if anyone knows why no new spells are given then please let me know.

[edit] is it possible that the character needs to have RL set to sleep in order to level to get new spells? I may try that - I know the author tested with OblivionXP but I don't know about the natural grow mods. Just checked and no sleeping does not trigger anything.

[edit 2] and to be clear I really studied over the prerequirements for several of the classes and had my character specialize in 5 schools of magic, so that he could get more spells - or so I thought that was the case. These 5 schools are all over 35 in skill points.

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:18 pm

Hello there,

Well, I thought all those things you are setting up in here... but lets go step by step..

first of all:
Rule Number #1 AOMS = Main Objective is to avoid the "I-Can-Do-Everything-And-Have-Everything" Character type. Known this:

1)
about the Heavy Armor, Let me remember that you can still use Heavy Armor in your character, the "Penalization" comes in play there where you cannot have it as a Major Skills, meaning, you can still be a Druid and use Heavy Armor if you wish, you are just unable to have it as a major skill from the beginning, meaning it will be harder to level up, and that it wont contribute to your character level, and it will be harder to get its benefits.

If you still use heavy armor and increase your skill level with it, you won't lose your spells, taking it as "these guy really trains hard enough to use heavy armor even with his special skills in magic".. being something good and available in the mod..

2)
About the skills exclusion, yes, mostly Destruction excludes Restoration, I thought this as: The guy who destroys things, is not really good in "recovering" things. The guy who alters reality is not really good in "creating" another reality. And finally, the guy who alters perception, is hardly the guy who can summon life from anywhere... a bit more complex, but it comes this way... It is basically done in order to balance and avoid the "having all - doing everything" character type.

3)
Combat skills and penalization, well.. considering the kind of spells each specialization has, I added penalties in combat, ... this is again calling the rule number #1 I point to keep it balanced.. the guy who is able to throw a nasty fireball shouldn't be able to be as good with the sword as the warrior...

4)
Spells don't come each level necessarily.. mostly i would say yes, but there may be some exceptions where you raise level in skills and gain nothing.. an alternative way would be playing with Oblivion XP mod too..

Though if you leveled up your main major skills and still getting nothing, that would be a problem directly, something wrong in the installation, an old version of the required mods, or obse, or a wrong order list...

have fun..!

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:41 pm

First off thanks for taking the time to answer - very appreciated.

points 1-3 are all things philosophical in nature and are not as essential as point 4 (the last question I asked) at this time.

I'm certain that I have all versions of the required mods - I have OBSE 19 stable (is that possibly an issue) and I'm certain I have the load order right:

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:
00 Oblivion.esm
01 GTAesgaard_2.esm
02 Windfall.esm
03 Jog_X_Mod.esm
04 ScreenEffects.esm
05 All Natural Base.esm [Version 1.0]
06 Cobl Main.esm [Version 1.73]
07 TamRes.esm
08 Harvest[Containers].esm
09 Waalx Animals & Creatures.esm
0A VASE - core.esm
0B TamrielTravellers.esm [Version 1.39c]
0C Armamentarium.esm [Version 1.35]
0D Artifacts.esm [Version 1.1]
0E Better Cities Resources.esm [Version 4.8.0]
0F Progress.esm [Version 2.2]
10 NNWAEMaster.esm
11 CLS-Craftybits.esm
12 CustomSpellIcons.esm
13 PMSneakySummons.esm [Version 1]
14 MALO - MAIN.esm
15 Oblivifall Master File.esm [Version 1.0]
16 John's Leveled List Overhaul.esm
17 The Arsenal.esm
18 Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp [Version 3.3.2]
19 DLCShiveringIsles.esp
1A Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp [Version 1.4.0]
1B SM Plugin Refurbish - SI.esp [Version 1.30]
1C Better Cities .esp
1D TamRes.esp
1E Natural Selection.esp [Version 1.0]
1F Environment Mods - Merged.esp
20 All Natural.esp [Version 1.1]
21 All Natural - SI.esp [Version 1.0]
22 Immersive Interiors.esp [Version 0.7]
23 Immersive Interiors - Lights Addon.esp [Version 0.7]
24 Enhanced Water v2.0 HDMI.esp
++ Enhanced Water v2.0 HD - SI Addon.esp [Version 0.1]
++ Visually Realistic Deadly Lava.esp
++ Symphony of Violence.esp
25 All Natural - Real Lights.esp [Version 1.1]
26 WindowLightingSystem.esp
++ Item interchange - Extraction.esp [Version 0.78]
27 My Voice Extender.esp
28 New Potions.esp
29 Q - More and Moldy Ingredients v1.1.esp
2A Willful Resistance.esp [Version 4.0]
++ Harvest[Containers] - Vanilla.esp
++ Harvest[Containers] - SI.esp
++ Harvest[Containers] - SI - Ore Respawn.esp
2B Enhanced Economy.esp [Version 5.0.2]
2C WAC - Crowded Roads Revisited.esp [Version 1.1]
2D PTRoamingNPCs.esp
2E Choices and Consequences.esp
2F C&C - The Blackwood Company.esp
30 Display Stats.esp [Version 1.3]
31 DropLitTorchOBSE.esp [Version 2.4]
32 Enhanced Seasons.esp [Version 1.3]
33 Quest Log Manager.esp [Version 1.3.1]
34 Streamline 3.1.esp
35 UI Mods Merged.esp
36 Map Marker Overhaul.esp [Version 3.7.1]
37 Map Marker Overhaul - SI additions.esp [Version 3.5]
38 Enhanced Hotkeys.esp [Version 1.4]
39 Home Care Mods Merged.esp
3A DLCHorseArmor.esp
3B DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.6]
3C SM Plugin Refurbish - HorseArmor.esp [Version 1.11]
3D DLCOrrery.esp
3E DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.4]
3F SM Plugin Refurbish - Orrery.esp [Version 1.11]
40 DLCMehrunesRazor.esp
41 DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.5]
42 SM Plugin Refurbish - MehrunesRazor.esp [Version 1.30]
43 DLCSpellTomes.esp
++ DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.1]
** Book Jackets DLC.esp
** GrimbotsSpellTomes.esp
** EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer.esp
44 ClassyClothingCompendium.esp [Version 1.2]
++ CSR - Fine Iron.esp
++ CSR - Golden Saint.esp
45 SentientWeapon.esp [Version 3]
++ The Arsenal - Leveled Lists.esp
46 Mage Equipment.esp
47 Weapon Expansion Pack for Oblivion Nthusiasts.esp [Version 1]
48 DLCThievesDen.esp
49 DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.6]
4A SM Plugin Refurbish - ThievesDen.esp [Version 1.30]
4B Cobl Glue.esp [Version 1.73]
4C Cobl Si.esp [Version 1.63]
++ Cobl Tweaks.esp [Version 1.73]
++ ArmamentariumLL.esp [Version 1.35]
++ ArmamentariumLLMagic.esp [Version 1.35]
4D ArmamentariumArtifacts.esp [Version 1.35]
++ ArmamentariumLLArmaVendor.esp [Version 1.35]
4E John's Leveled List Overhaul.esp
++ John's Leveled List Overhaul - Cyrodillic Armors.esp
++ John's Leveled List Overhaul - Vanilla Armours.esp
4F John's Leveled List Overhaul - Vanilla Weapons.esp
50 John's Leveled List Overhaul - Bandits in Glass Begone.esp
51 OBSE-Storms & Sound SI.esp
52 MALO Unleveled Plugins Merged.esp
++ VASE - Vanilla Cyrodiil.esp
++ VASE - Vanilla SI.esp
53 WAC.esp
54 WAC - OverSpawn.esp
55 WAC - TCOS.esp
56 WAC - TCOS Shops.esp [Version 03]
57 WAC - BlackBootDungeon.esp
58 WAC - Magic.esp
++ WAC - QuietFeet.esp
59 TamrielTravellersItemsUnscaled.esp [Version 1.39c]
5A ShiveringIsleTravellers.esp [Version 1.39c]
++ ShiveringIsleTravellersFriendlyFactions.esp [Version 1.39c]
** TamrielTravellersHorseTextures.esp [Version 2]
5B kuerteeWanderingEncounters.esp
5C TIE.esp [Version 1.41]
++ TIE Cats.esp
5D DBSQR.esp [Version 1.03]
5E DBSQR - MehrunesRazor.esp [Version 1.03]
5F DBSQR - Orrery.esp [Version 1.03]
60 Enhanced Quest Roleplaying.esp [Version 2.03]
61 A Sorceress Love 1_1.esp
62 Ancient Ruins - Ayleid Edition.esp
63 Artefacts of the Ancestors.esp
64 Artifacts.esp [Version 1.1]
++ Artifacts - ArmaCompleteAddon.esp [Version 1.0]
65 BrotherhoodRenewed.esp [Version 1.0.8]
66 FiveBlindMiceBeta.esp [Version 1.3]
67 GTAesgaard.esp
68 GTAesgaard_2.esp
++ GTAesgaard I-II Delayer.esp [Version 2.1]
69 OldCrowInn.esp [Version 1.5]
6A NNWAREAyleidDungeons_Series1EV.esp [Version 2.2]
6B NNWAEDungeons-Series2EV.esp
6C NNWARE06-RhyeliaEmeroEV.esp
6D ThePaleAdventurer.esp
6E Return Of Shadows.esp [Version 1.1]
6F RS - Gladiator.esp
70 Shezrie's Villages.esp
71 Shivering Isles Root System.esp
72 The Ayleid Steps.esp [Version 3.4]
73 Aylied Steps - AN Real Lights patch.esp [Version 1.00]
74 The Lost Tomb.esp
75 thievery.esp
76 thievery - EE patch.esp [Version 4.2]
77 VOILA.esp
78 VOILA - Soldiers of Empire.esp
79 Windfall.esp
7A Wretched Pit and Witherstone Caverns.esp
7B DLCfrostcrag.esp
7C SM Plugin Refurbish - Frostcrag.esp [Version 1.2]
7D Consequences.esp [Version 3.0]
7E GuardsofCyrodiilRedux.esp [Version 1.10]
7F MannimarcoComplete.esp
80 MannimarcoRevisited.esp
81 Wellspring Vale.esp
82 ElsweyrAnequina.esp
++ ElsweyrAnequina - Races HGEC-Robert.esp [Version 1.1]
83 Tales from Elsweyr Anequina.esp
84 Walkabout.esp
85 road+bridges.esp [Version 4.5.8]
86 Feldscar.esp [Version 1.0.5]
87 Vergayun.esp [Version 1.0.5]
88 Faregyl.esp [Version 1.0.10]
89 Faregyl+Anequina Patch.esp
8A Molapi.esp [Version 1.0]
8B PTMudwater.esp
8C Daedric Shrine Ruins.esp
8D Oblivifall - Losing My Religion.esp [Version 1.3]
8E Oblivifall - Losing My Religion CATH CHANGES.esp
8F xuldarkforest.esp [Version 1.0.5]
90 xulStendarrValley.esp [Version 1.2.2]
91 xulTheHeath.esp
92 XulEntiusGorge.esp
93 xulFallenleafEverglade.esp [Version 1.3.1]
94 Anequina-Fallenleaf-Patch.esp
95 xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp [Version 1.2.1]
96 xulChorrolHinterland.esp [Version 1.2.2]
97 xulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp [Version 1.6.4]
98 WAC - xulBCLostCoast.esp
99 xulBravilBarrowfields.esp [Version 1.3.2]
9A Tales Elsweyr Anq Bravil Barrowfields Patch.esp
9B xulLushWoodlands.esp [Version 1.3.1]
9C xulAncientYews.esp [Version 1.4.3]
9D SentientWeaponII-AncientYews patch.esp
9E xulAncientRedwoods.esp [Version 1.6]
9F xulCloudtopMountains.esp [Version 1.0.3]
A0 Ravenview-Cloudtop-Patch.esp [Version 1.0.5]
A1 xulArriusCreek.esp [Version 1.1.3]
A2 xulPatch_AY_AC.esp [Version 1.1]
A3 xulRollingHills_EV.esp [Version 1.3.2]
A4 xulPantherRiver.esp
A5 xulRiverEthe.esp [Version 1.0.2]
A6 xulBrenaRiverRavine.esp [Version 1.1]
A7 Brena River Ravine Daedric Shrine Ruins Patch.esp
A8 xulImperialIsle.esp [Version 1.6.6]
A9 xulBlackwoodForest.esp [Version 1.1.0]
AA xulCheydinhalFalls.esp [Version 1.0.1]
AB Villages-CheydinhalFalls patch.esp
AC xulAspenWood.esp [Version 1.0.2]
AD Lakewood+AspenWood Patch.esp [Version 1.0]
AE xulSkingradOutskirts.esp [Version 1.0.1]
AF xulSnowdale.esp [Version 1.0.1]
B0 Feldscar+Snowdale Patch.esp [Version 1.0]
B1 FrostcragReborn-Snowdale patch.esp
B2 NRB4+UL-II Patch.esp [Version 5.0.1]
B3 The Ruins of Miscarcand.esp
B4 Fort Akatosh Redux.esp
B5 FortAkatoshRedux-NewRoads&Bridges patch.esp
++ Cyrodiil Legion Addon.esp [Version 1.3]
B6 Legion Ranger Addon.esp
B7 Harvest [Flora].esp [Version 3.0.0]
++ Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp [Version 3.0.0]
B8 ImprovedSoulgems.esp [Version 1.11]
B9 Class Advantages.esp [Version 1.01]
++ MIEO.esp
BA Oblivifall - Ambiant Dungeon SFX.esp [Version 1.2]
BB Oblivifall - Closing Time.esp [Version 1.0]
BC Potable Pastiche.esp
BD Enhanced Vegetation [125%].esp
BE Dialogue and Messages Merged.esp
BF Game Tweaks Merged.esp
C0 Stealth Mods Merged.esp
C1 Soulgem Magic.esp [Version 1.0]
C2 CLS-Craftybits.esp
C3 Alternative Start by Robert Evrae.esp
C4 RealisticFatigue.esp
C5 RealisticHealth.esp
C6 Duke Patricks - Basic Hypothermia.esp [Version 3.1]
C7 SupremeMagicka.esp [Version 0.90] says 0.90 in bash but the archive it came from is beta 3
C8 MidasSpells.esp archive it came from is 0.995
C9 FearsomeMagicka.esp
CA RshAlchemy.esp
CB Enchantment Enhanced.esp
CC Realistic Sneak for NPCs.esp [Version 1.04]
CD SM Combat Hide.esp [Version 1.2]
CE StealthOverhaul.esp
CF Morrowind Lockpicking.esp
++ GuildBetrayal.esp
D0 Enhanced Grabbing.esp [Version 0.5]
D1 HTHAdvanced - Sinkpoint.esp
D2 SM Hand Combat.esp [Version 1.0]
D3 SMCombatRegen.esp [Version 1.00]
D4 RealisticLeveling.esp
D5 Progress Plugins Merged.esp
** Cava Obscura - Cyrodiil.esp
** Cava Obscura - SI.esp
** Cava Obscura - Filter Patch For Mods.esp
++ Item interchange - Placement.esp [Version 0.78]
++ Item interchange - Placement for Frostcrag Reborn.esp [Version 0.78]
++ EVE_KhajiitFix.esp
D6 Minionz.esp
D7 bgBalancingEVCore.esp [Version 10.52EV-D]
++ TamrielTravellers Cosmetics Cobl or RBP.esp
D8 ZUAmberMadnessOverhaul.esp
D9 ZUSIO-Map MarkerOverhaul SI-patch.esp
++ ZUSIO-SM Plugin Refurbish SI-patch.esp
DA bgMagicEV.esp [Version 1.7EV]
++ bgMagicSpellTomes_for_WryeBash.esp [Version 1.68EV]
++ bgMagicItemSigil.esp [Version 1.68EV]
DB bgMagicBonus.esp [Version 1.7EV]
++ bgMagicEVAddEnVar.esp [Version 1.68EV]
DC bgMagicEVPaperChase.esp [Version 1.68EV]
++ PMSneakySummonCompatibility.esp [Version 1]
DD AlternativeOblivionMagicSystem.esp
++ bgBalancingEVOptionalFangs.esp [Version 10.0EV-D]
++ bgBalancingEVOptionalMoreEyes.esp [Version 10]
++ bgBalancingEVOptionalBetterRedguards.esp
** bgBalancingEVOptionalNPCDiversity, TNR Merge Better Redguards.esp [Version 10.0EV-D]
** bgBalancingOptionalNPCDiversityKvatchRebuilt, for Wrye Bash.esp [Version 9.0EV-D]
DE bgBalancingEVLAMEAddition.esp [Version 10.51EV-D]
++ bgBalancingEVLAMEGlue.esp [Version 10.0EV-D1.62EV]
** bgBalancingEVOptionalNPCDiversityLAME.esp [Version 10.5EV-D]
++ bgBalancingEVOptionalSeamReducerHighElfFix.esp [Version 10.0EV-D]
DF bgIntegrationEV.esp [Version 0.993]
** bgIntegrationEV - Alternative NPC Faces by LazyMonk.esp [Version 0.99]
++ bgIntegrationEV - Unique Clothes.esp
E0 Better Cities Full.esp [Version 4.8.0]
E1 Better Cities - Unique Landscape Barrowfields.esp [Version 4.7.0]
E2 Better Cities - Unique Landscape Chorrol Hinterland.esp [Version 4.7.0]
E3 Better Cities - Unique Landscape Cheydinhal Falls.esp [Version 4.8.0]
E4 Better Cities - Unique Landscape Skingrad Outskirts.esp [Version 4.7.0]
E5 Better Cities - Thievery.esp [Version 4.8.0]
++ Better Cities - TIE Restricted Area.esp
E6 Better Cities - VWD of the IC.esp [Version 4.7.0]
E7 Better Imperial City.esp [Version 4.8.0]
E8 Better Cities - Old Crow Inn.esp [Version 4.7.0]
E9 Better Cities - COBL.esp [Version 2.1]
EA Better Cities Full FPS Patch.esp [Version 4.8.0]
EB SPAWN.esp [Version 0.3]
** bgMagicEVShader.esp [Version 1.7EV]
EC bgMagicLightningbolt.esp
ED DS Flaming Arrows.esp [Version 1.2]
++ Life Detected - Aura - Medium - 2.esp
EE Shining Creatures.esp
++ Shining Creatures_DLCFrostcrag.esp
** NRB4 Standard Road Record.esp
++ CoreRandmonClothing4Npcs.esp
++ Cobl Filter Late MERGE ONLY.esp [Version 1.53]
++ Harvest Containers Filter patch for mods.esp [Version 1.00]
** All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp [Version 1.1]
EF Bashed Patch, 0.esp
F0 Duke Patricks - Actors Can Miss Now.esp
F1 Duke Patricks - Near Miss Magic And Arrows Alert The Target.esp [Version 7.1]
F2 Duke Patricks - Fresh Kills Now Alert The NPCs.esp [Version 4]
F3 Duke Patricks - Basic Combat Geometry.esp [Version 1.6]
F4 Duke Patricks - Momentum Damage And Jump Risk.esp [Version 2.5.1]
F5 Duke Patricks - SCA Melee Combat with NO RECOIL.esp [Version 4.6]
F6 Duke Patricks - Combat Archery.esp [Version 3.4.1]
F7 Duke Patricks - Combat Magic II.esp
F8 Duke Patricks - BASIC Script Effect Silencer.esp

Your answer though is a bit vague

Spells don't come each level necessarily.. mostly i would say yes, but there may be some exceptions where you raise level in skills and gain nothing.. an alternative way would be playing with Oblivion XP mod too..

I'm not understanding the mechanics by which I get a new spell and if it is sometimes yes sometimes no then how can I test if it is working? Did you program in a randomization factor or are there mechanics in play that are not described. My level 2 character seems to already have the skill levels to start multiclassing, but after leveling - nothing happened. Nothing.

Same force spells as level 1 - they didn't seem to increase in potency. Do I have to have a certain number of major skill or magic skill increases to qualify for new spells or is the process triggered by sleeping (didn't seem so).

and you keep suggesting OblivionXP - I asked before if it was required and you said no ... I prefer natural grow mods. I get all the XP system experience in Nehrim that I want (plus every other rpg out there).

So can I get some more information on what triggers new spell distribution so I can tell/test if this is even working right? Is there a debug command or a script I should be watching for that is failing - maybe a script or quest I can force run through the console to see if it is working right? anything?

please and thank you.

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:46 pm

Hmm.. no, I haven't designed a Diagnose tool (which I should make in Next Release)...

To test if the mod is working correctly, Try a new character and choose the Druid Specialization (meet requirements)... The Druid only has spells added by Midas,Lame,Supreme, if you get starting spells, then the mod IS working (you should get summon wolf and new stuff)

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:15 pm

I think you may be misunderstanding - with the current character I did get assigned spells at chargen - in fact I made several variants to see what kind I would get.

So the spells are assigned at lvl 1 - my concern is that the character has leveled to lvl 2 and no new spells.

Am I mistaken in the impression that each level AOMS would assign new spells? If not by lvl then by what method?

thanks

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:54 pm

That is because the starting spells are from Oblivion vanilla gameplay. If the mod works or not, you WILL get those spells either way... But you wont get midas-supreme-lame spells (which are the ones you seem not to get in the middle-game)....

The Druid is the ONLY specialization which starts with non-vanilla spells, that's why I tell you to try that one.. and see if it works..

This is because I have separated vanilla spells from extra-spells... so if the mod doesn't work, the "vanilla" part of the game will still Execute, including the starting book... but the "extra" content won't execute at all.. And this extra-content is what you should be getting in the way to level 2 and furthermore

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:45 pm

Sorry it took so long to test that - I made sure to only specialize in the Druid skills and not the combat skills.

After leaving sewers I got the message about populating the spell list ... then the inventory box and chose druid ... the result was http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo54/psymon11b/AOMSspells.jpg - some of which seem very vanilla to me.

So what is preventing this from working right? Damn!

I will next strip the load order down to just what is required for this and the uop and see what happens.

Man I wish I had some way of knowing when I started my character this was not working.

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:53 pm

Hmm if you are getting all those spells with the Druid, then the mod IS actually working and executing correctly...

In this case, a problem might be a compatibility issue which I am not aware of... what is that spell renaming you have? ordering the spells by its school.. try disabling anything related to spell that is not from AOMS..

If you are lucky, perhaps you could fix your current savegame, because many data is stored in there, otherwise, you would have to start a new game (after ensuring the mod works correctly)..

good luck... (it is rare to have compatibility issue, but something renaming the spells might be the cause of problems), sorry there is no exhaustive diagnose tool in the mod, but if you are getting those Druid spells, then everything seems fine, except if you changed mods after starting a new game.. not sure

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:41 pm

What about wrye bash tweaks that rename spells?

Have you used those?

I tested for getting the force mage with just this load order:

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  ScreenEffects.esm02  Progress.esm  [Version 2.2]03  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.3.2]04  DLCShiveringIsles.esp05  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]06  SM Plugin Refurbish - SI.esp  [Version 1.30]07  DLCHorseArmor.esp08  DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.6]09  SM Plugin Refurbish - HorseArmor.esp  [Version 1.11]0A  DLCOrrery.esp0B  DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]0C  SM Plugin Refurbish - Orrery.esp  [Version 1.11]0D  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp0E  DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]0F  SM Plugin Refurbish - MehrunesRazor.esp  [Version 1.30]10  DLCSpellTomes.esp11  DLCThievesDen.esp12  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.6]13  SM Plugin Refurbish - ThievesDen.esp  [Version 1.30]14  Skip Tutorial.esp15  SupremeMagicka.esp  [Version 0.90]16  MidasSpells.esp17  FearsomeMagicka.esp18  RealisticLeveling.esp19  Progress Plugins Merged.esp1A  bgMagicEV.esp  [Version 1.7EV]1B  AlternativeOblivionMagicSystem.esp

and it was the same three spells I got when starting my game: Protect, Protect other, and burden on touch.

Those are what you are supposed to get with force mage - right?

And this was without the bashed patch tweaks to alter the name of spells and without custom spell icons. I got the original disbursemant of spells with the bash patch tweak as well.

With Force Mage - what spells should i be getting at lvl 2? I looked at all mods loaded in tes4edit and mostly all the spells are touched by the mods required to run this. If I knew what the next set of spells are supposed to be then that would help me narrow down on what I can see with them.

and again back to the leveling mods - natural grow mods like nGCD and Realistic Leveling normally don't give any fanfare that you have leveled (no notification) but RL does have a setting to turn that on either automatically or by requiring sleep. I tried turning those on to no change. I'm wondering though for this to kick into action does it require something that normal leveling does or leveling with fanfare that maybe OblivionXP utilizes. What do you think?

I'm not eager to then test out 4 different leveling mods and take the character to lvl 2 just to see with each.

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:53 pm

It does not depend on the character's level, it depends mostly on your Alteration Skill (if you are a force mage)...

If the mod is working correctly, open the console and write down

Player.SetAV Alteration 40

You should get a lot of spells, in which, make sure you receive a Spell called Elemental Shield

that will tell you if the mod is working or not. (of course then load the game and play normally without cheats

)

Again, ignore Vanilla Spells, focus on the spells added by midas-lame-supreme..

Though If you received Summon Mud Crab Spell when you tried the Druid, I think the mod is working right

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:52 am

It does not depend on the character's level, it depends mostly on your Alteration Skill (if you are a force mage)...

That was the information I've been asking about for several posts now. Knowing that I would not have had to do all the tests of bashing my patch a half a dozen times or starting new games to test or any of this.

Yes the character did get about 16 spells but not from just entering alteration at 40 he also had to level it seemed. maybe I was just being impatient though as I have a character save literally one jump (bump in athletics) to next level. I waited but nothing seemed to happen then jumped, leveled, got the spells.

I got several spells that were called midas ___ (magic missile was one) at the level up, so it seemed to be working correctly.

Perhaps as a suggestion - put the information in the readme/download page that spell disbursemant is skill dependent not level dependent. That is not clear not is it clear when you state that, for instance, a Druid cannot have heavy armor whether that means as a skill at all or only as a major.

I'm also vague on the multiclassing rules and structure - when the skill levels are present to multiclass do we then get the inventory box to choose another class or are we only disbursed lesser spells of each cross class spell list? I hope this is not the case as then it would seem that I wished I had engineered my character to take a major class (as opposed to minor class of force mage) from the start of the game.

I hear you on wanting to limit the do anything magic experience, but still with seven major skills to choose from my character chose 5 of them. I was thinking at the time to take force mage because of the low level benefits then take a better class later after requirements were met - so how does that work? Are all multiclass spells going to be less than the main spells of the major classes? I wanted to make a powerful mage - just that I also wanted it to be a long slow climb with obstacles galore to that status. Such as having 5 magic skills majors but choose the atronach birthsign.

Also with regard to spell learning - I very much like that it removes buying spells (and that menu option is buggy as described above), but does this also attempt to block learning from spell books (DLC) or from LAME scrolls (paper hunt) or from spell making altars? I'm hoping not.

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:23 pm

Multiclassing gives you some spells from the other magic skills you have. If you chose the healer and you have Destruction, then you will get a fireball. Obviusly you are not getting many spells, but a few..

You can't have more than one specialization ever, you may only be able to get some spells, which are few. If you chose 5 magic skills, you chose only one specialization, plus you will get extra spells from other schools, but not like having other specialization.

And yes, you can learn from spell boks and lame scrolls (though when updating aoms these may be deleted). Quest spells and spell making altars are compatible too

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:50 pm

What then qualitatively is the difference between a lower and higher specialization? Will one get better (higher quality or more spells) for opting for higher specialization?

Is it that categorizing higher and lower were meant to somehow indicate quality or rarity of spells available? So does this sacrifice of not majoring in certain combat skills net you better magic spells? If so then I would not have chosen a lowly force mage. Jeez these are big decisions to make at the start of the mod (which then lasts the rest of the game).

This is not clear at all in the readme. Much like the wording around skill requirements and exclusions does not mean skill point level but whether it was a major (I read it as no heavy armor over 25, etc).

Here calling these classes specializations confuses the issue. Specialization reads like the skill chosen or the area of specialty - no these are classes and you get only one ever - so then later saying you are multiclassing leads one to possibly think that you get more than one class when you don't. I can see the wording you could point to here:

I Call multiclassing to choosing at least two magic schools as major skills, say Destruction and Alteration. Considering that in this mod you chose ONE specialization based in ONE major skill,

But by switching your name for this between specialization at one instance and class the next really makes the readme unclear.

I really wish I would have waited for your response to my questions above and in the other thread before starting this character.

I guess I could disable this mod and reinstall since I have saves prior to level 2 - I'd lose a few spells but so what - I had the option to choose a few higher specializations, but since I didn't understand the readme I chose force mage because it was an alright set of spells for low level and I thought I could truly multicass later. The only two major skills he has that are not magic are marksman and sneak.

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:15 am

Hehe well yes, my english is not native and the readme may be unclear, sorry for that..!

Higher and Lower specializations are to differentiate them by the level of requirements they need. For example the Force Mage only requires Alteration. On the other hand, the Arcane Chemist requires Alteration, Alchemy, Not Heavy Armor, etc... meaning somehow this is a higher specialization because it is more kinda "focused" on the character type..

And yes, usually higher specializations mean they are kinda more powerfull in someway, though this is not 100% implemented correctly yet.

I am not really sure how it works, but perhaps disabling the mod, saving the game, and enabling the mod again could restart it, im not sure..! (you should re'conigure your character if you′d like to change something before enabling it again)

have fun

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:43 am

Well to do this I figured out how.

Took a pic of my character's stats then made several saves, disabled the mod, saved, console command to restart the class menu (basically starting my character over without starting the game over), enable mod - initialize mod. Then I'm going to have t setAv the stats back to near where they were.

Yeah I want I higher specialization (what would be more clear to call class). IN fact to be more clear I'd swap how you are using those terms. Specialization sounds skill related, whereas class sounds more like what you are describing when you say things like warmage, druid, etc.This way then the term multispecializing may denote more of a mixing of skill sets and it is clearer that there is ever only one class the character has.

Doing all this because my character did meet requirements to get higher, but since I'm going through the fuss of it I may as well get exactly the class I want. Resetting the mod class advantages too - which has many complimentary powers associated with it.

Thanks you for answering questions - I hope to see more updates in the future.

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:58 pm

You′re welcome, thanks for the feedback ^^ i'll try to be clearer next times..

by the way, i haven't used the "class" term since class refers to the Class list available at the beginning of the game, also because there was a time where I tried to replace the Class list with the Specialization list, but people didn't seem to like it since they prefer to customize their classes instead of selecting pre-made selections..

in any case, have fun

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:43 pm

Not to nitpick and get into semantics here, but you did refer to multiclassing which is classing and then some. That was the point of confusion. It is really multi-specialties.

Maybe I'm missing a finer point but reading the readme and getting these terms mixed up was not hard to do.