Could someone list the Daedra Lords in entirety and the Gods?

Also, what/who is Sythis - a real God or a anthropomorphical void?

Is Arkay a Daedra? Do any of the Gods/Daedra "cross over" or are the distinct in their types of divinity?

I would appreciate a breakdown from the first God through to the days of Oblivion.

Thank you!

J

The http://www.imperial-library.info/nine_divines/, more commonly known as the 9 divines. These are the ones you call "gods."
Different cultures have different views on these divines and several have their own deities. http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/varietiesoffaith.shtml explains.
http://www.imperial-library.info/book_daedra/has everything and anything you would like to know on the Daedra.

Sithis is the embodiment of the void. I suppose he is a god (in the sense that he is not a mortal being) but he does not have any special powers or anything. Arkay is an Aedra. They are very much distinct, as a general rule the Aedra are the ones that made the mortal world (nirn) and the Daedra are the ones that did not.

This is just a primer, im sure someone will be along shortly to confuse you with the exact answer to your question

I am also curious about this, more specifically though, who are the aedra besides the nine devines? I read somewhere that there were a number of aedra who escaped mundus with Magnus and left for aetherius. I'm really just wondering if we have any information like names and stories on the non-nine devine aedra.. or if the non-nine devine aedra are even considered aedra or if they are really daedra.

I'm pretty sure he does, since he created the universe.

No he(it) didn't. Or if he did, he did it in the way "False" created True or False questions. In the beginning the answer was True, but it was meaningless because there was no False to compare it to.

See the following for a plethora of information on http://www.imperial-library.info/nine_divines/ and http://www.imperial-library.info/book_daedra/

There are et'Ada, which are divine beings as they are prior (in both the ontological and temporal senses) to the Daedra/Aedra schism.

Anyhow, when the universe is created (which is to say, when the universe took attainted what is more or less its present structure), the et'Ada become distinguished based on their association with Padomay (the Daedra) and Anu (the Aedra), and also distinguished by whether or not they actively take part in the creation of the Mundus (Aedra did, Daedra didn't). And arguably the Anu/Padomay association and the decision to take part or refuse to take part in the creation of the Mundus are the same thing on different ontological levels. Of course, Magnus and his ilk constitute a third group, those which participate in the creation of the Mundus, but leave before it is finished.

Anyhow, the Cyrodiilic eight divines are an amalgamation of Altmeri/Aldmeri Aedra and Nordic Aedra. Here's a list I've been working on recently, based on http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/varietiesoffaith.shtml, which attempts to catalogue the Merish and Nordic precursors to the contemporary divines. The comments are my own, and this list is a work in progress.

Akatosh (Dragon God of Time)
Nordic contribution: Alduin. (World Eater)
Altmer/Aldmer contribution: Auri-El (King of the Aldmer)
The Cyrodiilic Akatosh, as found in the Eight Divines Pantheon, does not emerge unchanged from either the previous Nordic nor Merish pantheons, though appears to be much more closely aligned with the Altmeri/Aldmeri Auri-El.

Dibella (Goddess of Beauty)
This divine appears to be entirely a Nordic contribution.

Arkay (God of the Cycle of Life and Death).
Possible Nordic contribution: Orkey (Old Knocker).
Despite the popularity of this divine, tracing the origin of Arkay is problematic. Arkay may be derived from the Nordic Orkey, but Nordic legends associate Orkey with the Aldmer, who have no apparent correlative deity (except, perhaps, Phynaster). That Arkay is thought to be the son of Akatosh (the Cyrodiilic version of the Time God), suggests the modern version is precisely that, modern.


Zenithar (God of Work and Commerce; Trader God)
Of uncertain contribution. The closest precursor appears to be the Bosmeri Z'en (God of Toil), which may be related to an Aldmeri god, though there is no equivalent in the modern Altmeri pantheon.

Mara (Goddess of Love)
This divine exists in both the Nordic and Altmeri pantheons. This fact, along with her association of Nir of the Anuad, suggest this deity has a long history. She is associated with the Big Moon, Jode/Masser (Mara's Tear).

Stendarr (God of Mercy)
Nordic contribution: Stuhn (God of Ransom).
Early Altmeri legend have Stendarr as an apologist of Men, whereas Nordic legends portray Stuhn as a warrior who fought against the Altmeri gods. At some point this warlike god was softened into its more comforting modern form, a transformation which likely facilitated the synthesis of the two pantheons. The modern version is recognized in both the Eight Divines and the Altmeri pantheons. He is associated with the Little Moon Jone/Secunda (Stendarr's Sorrow).

Kynareth (Goddess of Air)
Nordic contribution: Kyne (Kiss At the End)
This divine appears to be a softened adaptation of the Nordic precursor.

Julianos (God of Wisdom and Logic)
Nordic contribution: Jhunal (Rune God)
This divine appears to be a modified version of a Nordic precursor. Interestingly, he is absent from modern Skyrim mythology.

And for completion, I'll include Lorkhan as well.

Shezarr/Lorkhan
Nordic contribution: Shezarr (God of Man) and Shor (God of the Underworld).
Altmer/Aldmer contribution: Lorkhan (This Missing God)
As Shor, this Nordic god waged war for the Nords against their Aldmeri enemies, who is defeated through the conspiratorial treachery of foreign (Almderi) gods. Similarly, as Shezarr this god was seen as the spirit behind human undertaking, especially against the Aldmer. As Lorkhan, this Altmeri/Aldmeri god is known as the one who convinced or tricked the Original Spirits to create the Mundus. Today, the Merish Lorkhan is the most prevalent.

DNA created life. does it have divine power?

What is Sithis?

Forget all the Dark Brotherhood rubbish.

Sithis is known by many names, like all the other deities. But unlike the other deities, it is hard to understand what Sithis is if you don't understand his role and counterpart.

Anu, Anuiel, etc. Is the infinite source that provides eternal infinite infinity to the Aurbis (The Universe) If there were only Anu, Nords would be infinite feet tall. Anu is the Infinity Sign.

Sithis on the other hand exists as a minus sign. Because Sithis is constantly subtracting, Nords are six feet tall. Indeed, the Mundus (The World) Is the arena or playground, or dance hall, depending on your point of view, in which Anu and Sithis constantly duel it out/play/dance.

Nirn, the name of the Plane[t] on which the Continent of Tamriel is, means ARENA in the ehlnofex, the language of the Et'ada, the spirits/gods that are called Aedra and Daedra.

If you were truly omniscient, chances are your infinite and constant knowledge of everything would overload your consciousness and make thinking impossible. In order to self reflect, you would need to limit yourself and your understanding.

In this, Sithis can be seen as Anu's attempt to make sense of itself, by breaking into two.

Or, if you want to find the pattern shared by both the gods and early existence, Sithis is the the rebel who stabbed Anu (AM) by shouting (AM NOT!).

Just note that I am using the name ANU as a name for the indivisible universe. It then breaks into Anuiel and Sithis or Anu and Padomay.

Sithis is just this guy, you know.

If you're going to roleplay, I'd suggest picking one of the books in the game that details the gods and daedra, then assuming that your character was raised in that faith. The other faiths, and the scholarly books? They're wrong, of course.

For example, if you're playing a Khajiit thief, pick up a copy of Words of the Clan Mother ( http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/clanmother.shtml ) and assume it's right and everything else is wrong. If you're playing an extremely well educated Imperial Mage, pick up a copy of Gods and Worship ( http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/clanmother.shtml ) and assume that gods rise and fall, and that humans can't really know them. At any rate, there's tons to read in game; have fun.

Thank you for the replies - I found the link to the Imperial Library especially helpful.

J

Jhunal became Julianos.

Don't forget Talos of the modern pantheon.

Yay, another discussion of Sithis, I love these things - and I'm so proud that nobody has said that Sithis is "nothing" yet...

That's assuming a limited consciousness. One would hope that an omniscient being isn't forced into the constraints of a human-type consciousness...

I'm just waiting for someone to try to connect Sithis with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differance.

And for the sake of completeness...

Malacath is the only Deadric Prince to join the Daedra since the schism that split the et'Ada. Someone correct me if I'm getting my lore wrong, but I believe that Trinimac was some sort of demi-god knight working for Auriel (Akatosh) during the Merethic era. He tried to stop the Velothi migration and got eaten by Beothiah for his trouble. He was corrupted, became Malacath, and all his followers became the Orcs.

Of note, the Daedra don't really consider him to be one of them. However, he has a realm in Oblivion, an invocation date, and a portfolio (ostracism, appropriately). He also commands lesser daedra, the Orgrim. He seems to have all the qualities of a Deadric Prince, though some texts do mention him as being the weakest of the Daedra.

Also, Malacath may be the only example of actual, factual apotheosis on record. Not sure, though, since he may have been a diety back when he was Trinimac. Most texts, however, seem to treat Trinimac as being less than the Aedra or Daedra. (If Trinimac was a full-fledged diety, his association with Akatosh means that he may have been one of the Aedra. In that case, his movement to the Daedric pantheon is interesting for a different reason.)

What about Talos? And Mannimarco (mended or not, he DID)? I think there's a plethora of apotheosis IMHO. What about ALMSIVI? Then there's the smaller "gods" like Baan Dar (spelling?) etc.

As for Malacath I think he sort of filled the role. To me the Daedric princes/spheres represent the "affectors" of the universe. They didn't give parts of themselves to the world but they constantly influence it. So it's not about the origin of the avatar as much as it is about the role of the affector.

Yeah. But from a mortal perspective, What Came First was either too chaotic to be sentient or too orderly to be mobile.

The Altmeri section of The Monomyth mentions a Xen, which I assume to be the same being, though Xen doesn't appear in the Aldmeri pantheon as listed in Varieties of Faith. Make of that what you will; personally I'm undecided as to whether Xen is simply a forgotten useless god to the Altmer or whether Varieties of Faith is not an exhaustive or all-defining source. The Z'en of Valenwood may be Merish or could be an import from the Kothringi - it's hard to tell with Bosmer.

Also I believe that the human aspect of the Divine comes from Tsun, a Nordic god of trials against adversity who 'died defending Shor from foreign gods'. I'm guessing this happens at around the same time Stuhn becomes Stendarr.

Varieties of Faith is definitely not an exhaustive list. It just lists the most popular/important/revered divine beings for each culture. After all, we know that there are shrines to all of the Deadric princes in both Cyrodiil and Vvardenfell, yet all of the Daedra are not listed for Cyrodiil or the Dunmer in Varieties, only the most popular ones. Also, there are a ton of saints and guardian spirits and whatnot that don't make the cut in Varieties.

So, basically, Anu and Sithis are the equivalent of yin yang or a sort of karma?

One takes, one gives and vice versa to maintain balance?

I'd be really, really careful about using terms like that. Yin, yang, and karma are all unfortunately mis-used, a lot.

Like, Karma in Hindusim is not the same thing as Karma in Jainism is not the same thing as Karma in Buddhism.

Putting that aside...

Sithis is the active component of static substance, from which follows differentiation, change, etc.




To make the list more robust I would have to consult other sources, like the Monomyth. Thanks for bringing Xen to my attention. It may well be that Xen is the same as Z'en. Unfortunately, because Varieties doesn't mention Xen, and Monomyth doesn't say anything specific about Xen, I have no way of connecting Xen to Zen other than the obvious phonetic similiarity. Regarding Tsun, Varieties doesn't explicitly mention him being a precursor for any of the divines (unless I missed it). If you have a source that indicates otherwise I'd be happy to look at it.

The Nine Divines are not the only Aedra. The Earth Bones are also Aedra, and get here and there worshippped (Jeffre by the Bosmer, for example), and in the end, Men and Mer are descanted from those Aedra who could not retain divine power (using the Merish take on it, but I think it fits).


Ohhh, that fits, if I have understood the wiki explanation correctly.


Meridia?


Actually, there was nothing demi- about him. It has been said he was more revered than Auriel himself at some places.


Its no apothesis in the classic sense of the word, since he indeed already was a deity - indeed, he didnt ascend, but descend. But TES is choke-full of apotheosis! Just ask Tiber Septim. Of course, they dont always work as planned. For that, ask the Selectives.


Yes and No. Anu and Padomay are the two main forces of the TES universe, and indeed the entire TES universe is just their interplay on various levels (Myth Echos). Theres even a sort of Karma in the Lunar Currency, but that is where things get obscure...

But that doesnt mean theyre Yin and Yang as IRL or as Karma IRL. For example I dont think Anu and Padomay have ever been descriebd as giving and taking forces...

And for the record, as a nitpick on terminology, on the various levels its Anu/Padomay, Anuel/Sithis, Auriel(Akatosh)/Lorkhan, Aedra/Daedra.

Anu is 1 and Padomay is 0 (yes I mean from computer science)

Sithis is best personified by his subgradient, Lorkhan. That's about as close to an "individual" bearing the title of Sithis as there is. He is one of the two primal forces that are in and of everything. The 1 and 0 are a perfect metaphor for this, actually.

Looking at this exerpt from the Monomyth you could almost describe Sithis as being the Catalyst of Change:



You hear that Sithis is the Void? where does that come from? Apparently from a desire to pose Anuiel and Sithis as polar opposites - see above, so it is interesting to note that if Anuiel is the substance of the Aurbis (as has already been posited) and the Everlasting Ineffable Light then Anuiel is more Voidlike than Sithis. After all Sithis is not a place or area, Sithis is an action - a motive force.

Personally I perceive Anuiel as the Unchanging - a very different proposition from Order - and Sithis as the messenger of change. Basically through stimulus and so change Sithis stimulates Anuiel into an ordered progression. On that basis Sithis is the creator of Ordered Change and Evolution (that's why the mer are afraid of him - they do not want change, they want to live longer, unchanging).


The other side of things is that Anuiel is likened to light which is a very fast waveform and potentially very dangerous because it is so highly active and excited.

You refer to the Yokudan 'folk tales'? The Hum? Sounds like the Dwemer eh? A Hum is either a noise or a smell (let's ignore the Giant Sock anologies and stay with the Noise idea for the moment). But a Noise is not a Void. It is something else that cannot exist in a true Void as there is nothing there for it to excite. You might call it a long-period, low-level waveform that travels where there is substance to transmit it.

Taking up the smell challenge (and please note Trinimac) you might say that Sithis built up inside Anuiel, who got his finger out and farted and the fart was Sithis. This excited Anuiel and he got up off his duff and started doing things.

But the real bottom line is that just as human beings are beings of the World and they are not the World, so Anuiel and Sithis are beings OF the Void

Enjoy