Need help with merging mods and Smartmerger... + some other

Post » Mon May 07, 2012 7:55 pm

Hi everyone, first and foremost, I am a complete new player to the CS (have played the game several times in the past but only "vanilla").

But since now I have a more powerful PC, I wanted to play Morrowind once more, but this time with mods (both graphic enhancers and content adding mods).
Now I have the problem that I have downloaded a lot of mods (around 300-400), but most of them seem rather small (adding 1-2 weapons/armor/items) and I read it was possible to merge certain mods (as long as they don't add lots of quests, new dialog and scripts) to be able to play more than the initial 250 max.

From what I've read so far, Smartmerger is supposed to be a better option over the original CS... but I'm a bit confused about it, mainly about the commands and which ones to choose, since I'm not sure what exactly they do, since I've never used CS or mods before.

(I have Smartmerger on my desktop and after copying the .esm and .esp files in it's folder it seems to work now):

--reference: is this basically the list of .esm files the other mods depend on (morrowind/tribunal/bloodmoon.esm + possibly other mods that are required to play the later merged plug-ins, but are not supposed to be merged along with them)? Is it fine to merge plug-ins that require different masters (ex: one needing only morrowind and one needing all expansions, as long as all of the masters are under --reference)

--exclude_unchanged: Does this one create only a merged_objects.esp that still requires all the other .esp or does it merge all the .esp, but with the addtional effect of merged objects?


Here is my load order (this is not the full list, since I haven't installed most mods yet, since I'm doing them in several steps) and additional infos on the mods I want to add:

Masters for Alpha0000.ess:001  Morrowind.esm002  Tribunal.esm003  Bloodmoon.esm004  Morrowind Patch v1.6.5-BETA.esm005  Better Heads.esm006  Better Heads Tribunal addon.esm007  Better Heads Bloodmoon addon.esm008  GDR_MasterFile.esm009  TR_Data.esm010  TR_Map1.esm011  TR_Map2.esm012  Birthsigns.esp013  Better Bodies.esp014  Seraphs - Water.esp015  Azurian.Race-Comp-v3.2.esp016  Westly Presents-Sarek.esp017  Westly Presents-Golden Saint.esp018  Westly Presents-Altaran.esp019  Westly Presents-M'harjaan.esp020  New Khajiit Diversity(BEAST)X.esp021  Westly's Master Headpack X.esp022  Ebonite Race.esp023  Westly Presents_Halflings (nvde).esp024  Westly Presents_Half Races of Tamriel_X.esp025  Westly Presents The V'Kai.esp026  Westly Presents_Tahnuk_Races.esp027  Westly Presents_Half-Troll.esp028  Westly_Presents_Kheran_X.esp029  Drow_Signs_v2.1.esp030  Westly Presents_Exiles of Akavir_N.esp031  New Argonian Bodies - Mature.esp032  New Khajiit Bodies - Mature.esp033  Xenn's Shadowscales.esp034  Westly Presents_Aureals.esp035  Westly Presents-Dremora Markynaz.esp036  Gatanas Markynaz Dremora Companion - Female.esp037  Westly Presents Nuada and Nuala.esp038  Westly_Presents_Tang Mo_People of the Waters.esp039  Oread Race.esp040  Clean Lich Robes addon.esp041  Clean Bags O′Bones.esp042  Aya Brea.esp043  DN-GDRv1.esp

I am trying to merge the following into one single .esp (they all add mainly new race, but a few add items/equipment/NPC's and 2 add birthsigns)

012  Birthsigns.esp014  Seraphs - Water.esp015  Azurian.Race-Comp-v3.2.esp016  Westly Presents-Sarek.esp017  Westly Presents-Golden Saint.esp018  Westly Presents-Altaran.esp019  Westly Presents-M'harjaan.esp020  New Khajiit Diversity(BEAST)X.esp021  Westly's Master Headpack X.esp022  Ebonite Race.esp023  Westly Presents_Halflings (nvde).esp024  Westly Presents_Half Races of Tamriel_X.esp025  Westly Presents The V'Kai.esp026  Westly Presents_Tahnuk_Races.esp027  Westly Presents_Half-Troll.esp028  Westly_Presents_Kheran_X.esp029  Drow_Signs_v2.1.esp030  Westly Presents_Exiles of Akavir_N.esp033  Xenn's Shadowscales.esp034  Westly Presents_Aureals.esp035  Westly Presents-Dremora Markynaz.esp036  Gatanas Markynaz Dremora Companion - Female.esp037  Westly Presents Nuada and Nuala.esp038  Westly_Presents_Tang Mo_People of the Waters.esp039  Oread Race.esp040  Clean Lich Robes addon.esp041  Clean Bags O′Bones.esp042  Aya Brea.esp

Additional info's from read-me's:

Gatanas Markynaz Dremora Companion - Female.espAdds a companion (Gatanas) outside the Moonmoth Legion Fort near Balmoraand requires Westly Presents-Dremora Markynaz.espAzurian Race - CompAdds companion Liona to the bar in Eight Plates in Balmora.The Definitive Birthsigns PackChanges book "The Firmament" and unique starting equipment for several birthsigns received from the Guard Captain when you asked about .Westly Presents TESIV Inspired Golden Saints-Adds a new Leveled list to the Golden Saint creatures so that theydrop parts of the new armours added by this mod.-Adds a specific/unique creature model for the Golden Saint "Staada";Staada will now also drop specialised Aureal gear.Westly Presents HalflingsAdds trader to Vivec, Foreign Quarter Upper WaistworksWestly Presents The KheranAdds several sets of light armour as wellas spells for sale that will allow non-Kheran races to transform intoa "Mer" mer when they choose.Adds NPC in the Foreign Quarter Plaza in Vivec, and new goods to several trader (not mentioned which)Bags O'BonesAdds robes to Samarys ancestral tombAya BreaAdds outfit to a locked chest in the Census And Excise Office.Khajiit Diversity RevampedAdds several NPC'sWestly Presents- Better Body Golden Saint Race and ArmourAdds the Golden Saint Armour sold by Staara in theShrine of SheogorathWestly Presents Mang'Chu, The People of the WatersAdds Armour sets to Hodlismod the Armorer in Caldera.Westly Presents The V'KaiAdds items somwhere in Addamasartus,Nuada & Nuala Elves of the UnseenAdds armour in an ornamental urn in Ghostgate,Tower of DawnExiles of AkavirAdds trader to "Vivec, The Flowers of Gold", in the Redoran Canton in Vivec.

Are there some of them I should exclude from the list?
(Doubt these won't work:

036 Gatanas Markynaz Dremora Companion - Female.esp
015 Azurian.Race-Comp-v3.2.esp
Both add companions

035 Westly Presents-Dremora Markynaz.esp
Is required by Gatanas Markynaz Dremora Companion - Female.esp
Or might they still work if merged? Are there others to exclude)

With these additional infos provided which would be the best sttings to merge them in Smartmerger?

Will Smartmerger by default merge both objects/levelled list from .esp's? Since I intend to merge later several armor/weapon/item and creature mods that add levelled lists and merged_objects , both for the mods that end merged together + than another time between the resulting merged mods, but this times creating an additional Levelled list with Mash and Merged_objects.esp with Smartmerger... sounds probaly confusing so this example might show a bit better what I'm trying to say:

Ex: Complete Races Mod.esp (compilation of all the new races mods merged into 1 .esp)
Complete Armour/Weapons Mod.esp (same as above, but with weapons/armor)
Complete Creatures Mod.esp (same, but with creatures)
Complete Houses Mod.esp (same again)
Merged_Objects.esp + Leveled List for all files I'm gonna use (except those that mention not to do this...)




Four other questions, this time not about Smartmerger:

1. One of the mods, "022 Ebonite Race.esp", in this case, has the "evil" GMTS and I want to clean it, which tool should I use (a.k.a which is the most idiot safe to use since like I mentioned before, I'm a complete new player when it comes to CS) since I've read that if used wrong Testool can actually cause the mod to break?
And should I always clean mods with tools even if they are already marked as clean in the name (unless the read-me says not to clean, of course)? (And should I clean again the files that I will merge above once I'm finished or should they be clean if the original files were?)

2. Since I never used CS before, I wanted to ask if it is normal to get such a list of warning when opening only the 3 original .esm in the CS?

Following string is different for topic "someone in particular" info 2963712435680719868-"What do you mean you're looking for me? I don't know you, do I? You say you have a note from Ernil?"Previous string is different for topic "someone in particular" info 646119943318678334-"Oh yeah, sure. Heard ya the f-f-first time."Following string is different for topic "someone in particular" info 26077673137419609-"Almalexia, our Lady of Mercy, dwells in her Temple. Her steward, Fedris Hler, and the Lord Archcanon, Gavas Drin, also reside in the Temple. King Hlaalu Helseth and his mother, Queen Barenziah, live in the Royal Palace. Tienius Delitian is Captain of the Royal Guard. It's a big city. If there's someone else you want, ask around."Previous string is different for topic "someone in particular" info 273938299215761706-"I mind my own business. Why don't you mind yours, outlander?"Following string is different for topic "Boots of the Apostle" info 14011281241423210826-"The place-name reference in the Oracle's prophecy is obvious. An ancient Dunmer stronghold called Berandas lies south of the village of Gnisis in the West Gash region. I would also not be surprised to find that the reference to "wings of twilight" designates the guardians of the treasure you seek. Winged twilights are Daedric servants of the Daedra Lord Azura, one of the Anticipations worshiped in the Tribunal Temple."Following string is different for topic "Dark Brotherhood" info 6845170651501226134-"We are still at war with the Dark Brotherhood. Do not forget that."Previous string is different for topic "Dark Brotherhood" info 7790121922046710132-"Oh yeah, sure. Heard ya the f-f-first time."Following string is different for topic "Dark Brotherhood" info 1153953981787613029-"Scum, all of them. If they're after you, friend, you'd better find yourself some help. Or write a will. Or both."Previous string is different for topic "Dark Brotherhood" info 98651948238611929-"So Tsrazami was an agent of the Dark Brotherhood. Alas, she left Vvardenfell or is dead. Perhaps we can find another contact."Following string is different for topic "travel together" info 1627714415913516768-"Habasi hears you broke our agreement. Habasi does not want to speak with you now."Previous string is different for topic "travel together" info 10200169763196329114-"Really? Excellent! I mean...I wouldn't want to get in the way. You understand. I'll guard your back from here."Following string is different for topic "travel together" info 2091021750732311715-"Do you want me to stay with you? I'd be willing to wait here. I m-mean, it's up to you."Previous string is different for topic "travel together" info 3230111137262605603-"It was quite a journey, wasn't it?"Following string is different for topic "specific place" info 749914731240121175-"Pelagiad is the next town up the road. Cross the bridge out of town and just stay on the road. From Pelagiad, take the road north to Balmora and Caldera, or east to Ebonheart and Vivec. If you have the cash, and are in a hurry, or afraid of getting lost, take the silt strider to Balmora or Vivec. Speak to Darvame Hleran at the silt strider landing, across the bridge and south along the shore. And if you plan to travel widely, get a copy of 'Guide to Vvardenfell' from Arrille. It's got maps."Previous string is different for topic "specific place" info 1699211592376221704-"You're in the Plaza Brindisi Dorom now. North is the Royal Palace. To the northwest is Godsreach, to the northeast is the Great Bazaar. The Temple Courtyard is north of the Royal Palace, either through the Palace or from Godsreach or the Great Bazaar."Following string is different for topic "specific place" info 11745292531195823123-"You're in Godsreach now. South is Plaza Brindisi Dorom. North is the Temple Courtyard and Almalexia's Temple. To the east are the Royal Palace and the Great Bazaar, but you can't get there from here -- go through the Temple or Plaza first."Previous string is different for topic "specific place" info 6643274893123421616-"I'm not here to give you directions, outlander. Go ask your friends."Following string is different for topic "Apelles Matius" info 2054126209125913879-"Who?"Previous string is different for topic "Apelles Matius" info 105892696311744307-"I am he. What can I do for you?"Following string is different for topic "little advice" info 2094220342252388225-"No one will ever grow rich hunting. But it is a pure pleasure for itself. Take your time. Sneak up on your prey. Surprise it with a swift, silent arrow. There is no greater pleasure than to drop a cliff racer with a single arrow."Previous string is different for topic "little advice" info 5178505957589111-"Oh yeah, sure. Heard ya the f-f-first time."Following string is different for topic "little advice" info 4800225642531726815-"If you're looking for some action, try poking around in the sewers, Be careful. Others with similar ideas also spend their spare time down there. But you look like you can take care of yourself."Previous string is different for topic "little advice" info 157403399120459055-"Go around trouble. Leave it behind you. Then return, later, when you can give trouble a big surprise."Following string is different for topic "little secret" info 1656921162306334539-"Smuggling raw glass is a crime. All raw glass belongs to the Emperor, so it's the crime of treason, and punished by death. But... there's so much money to be made selling black market raw glass that it's a rare merchant who'll refuse to buy a piece from you. Of course, if the mine guards catch you stealing raw glass, they just kill you. Which is why we don't steal raw glass."Previous string is different for topic "little secret" info 25693272922242731603-"Oh yeah, sure. Heard ya the f-f-first time."Following string is different for topic "little secret" info 251731914716407914-"I've heard that a fellow named Dovor Oren has deep pockets. He is looking for weapons and armor -- special items -- and he pays well. I can't tell you where to find him. Just keep your eyes out for him and his associates."Previous string is different for topic "little secret" info 3059715983399729955-"Smuggling raw glass is a crime. All raw glass belongs to the Emperor, so it's the crime of treason, and punished by death. But... there's so much money to be made selling black market raw glass that it's a rare merchant who'll refuse to buy a piece from you. Of course, if the mine guards catch you stealing raw glass, they just kill you. Which is why we don't steal raw glass."Following string is different for topic "latest rumors" info 16325102782849326701-"The skies are clear all over Morrowind? Even on Red Mountain? I cannot believe it."Previous string is different for topic "latest rumors" info 128279104427445-"Oh yeah, sure. Heard ya the f-f-first time."Following string is different for topic "latest rumors" info 735826820143959524-"The wild rats have been a real problem in Mournhold lately."Previous string is different for topic "latest rumors" info 2606929671165928504-"So. You are Nerevarine. When will you go to Red Mountain to face the Devil Dagoth Ur?"Following string is different for topic "Greeting 0" info 12105171323147159-"You've committed a crime, vampire. Were you not an abomination, I might let you live. Prepare to die!"Following string is different for topic "Greeting 1" info 1588813549227325295-"All is silence. The road is straight, without turning, in darkness. Now let there be an end to all things."Previous string is different for topic "Greeting 1" info 19137490125553988-"Ah, %PCName. Friend of the Temple, and healer of Mournhold. What can I do for you?"Following string is different for topic "Greeting 1" info 2736297202775214789-"No...tell my liege...I have...failed h...."Previous string is different for topic "Greeting 1" info 2720923242218723111-"Look, I don't know what's going on in this place. Monsters bursting up from the ground, guards running around everywhere...this is lunacy. You'll notice I'm not blaming this on any witch. And it's still too hot around here."Following string is different for topic "Greeting 1" info 2541048941629420333-"I can't believe these ashstorms! I've heard of them on the island, but not here in Mournhold! Why does this keep happening?"Previous string is different for topic "Greeting 1" info 14849203321598615886-"Well. Someone finally found me. Your bad luck, really."Following string is different for topic "Greeting 1" info 190592792723126084-"What are you doing here? Those bastards kicked me out of the Legion...and for what? Idiots, all of them. I'm surprised the fools even knew it was gone. But it's mine now. And that's how it will stay. And you will tell no one!"Following string is different for topic "Greeting 5" info 21101133601380211667-"Report on the land deed."Following string is different for topic "Nerevarine" info 31868303082881712450-"Nerevarine? Is that a new play? I like plays."Previous string is different for topic "Nerevarine" info 19742144401495913234-"Wha?"Following string is different for topic "Nerevarine" info 18643190142627330170-"I know a little about the prophecies. I know about you and the Temple. Some people in the West set great store in signs and portents, but for thousands of years we Dunmer have had the luxury of being able to speak directly to our gods. We have no need of prophets, and distrust anyone who claims to speak for the gods."Previous string is different for topic "Nerevarine" info 2121218601181417485-"You were right, %PCName. I am not much of a hero, but I can only try to do my duty to the tribe. And now that the Devil is dead, and the Blight is gone, perhaps there will be time enough and peace enough for me to learn what I must learn to be a leader... like my father."Following string is different for topic "Almalexia" info 2340447542946020638-"Almalexia is Healing Mother, the source of compassion and sympathy, and protector of the poor and weak."Previous string is different for topic "Almalexia" info 253227646864125858-"The goddess over in the Temple. She's surrounded by her Hands. Tough fighters from what I hear."Following string is different for topic "Almalexia" info 1629530673227419863-"Almalexia is one of the gods worshipped by the Dunmer in the Tribunal Temple."Previous string is different for topic "Almalexia" info 1766720843232323511-"Almalexia is Healing Mother, the source of compassion and sympathy, and protector of the poor and weak."Following string is different for topic "Services" info 9706194263037723833-"I sell potions and spells, charms and marvels. And I can teach some of what I know, if you can pay."Previous string is different for topic "Services" info 30825219281734727358-"Oh yeah, sure. Heard ya the f-f-first time."Following string is different for topic "Services" info 25770154614365306-"You'll find the smith Bols Indalen at Craftmen's Hall in Godsreach, along with several other fine craftsmen. There's a healer and an Imperial altar in the Royal Palace. Go to the Temple for Temple services. Otherwise, most trainers, crafters, and merchants are in the Great Bazaar."Previous string is different for topic "Services" info 1814954861644214188-"We have our own Blades Trainers, of course. And there're many public services available in Balmora. Members get better prices from Guild Services. The Balmora Fighters Guild and Balmora Mages Guild are across the river. You'll find contacts for the Balmora Thieves Guild in the South Wall up the street. And there's an Imperial Cult shrine at nearby Moonmoth Legion Fort."Following string is different for topic "Attack" info 487276111250324150-"Arrgh!"Previous string is different for topic "Attack" info 321254531168523746-"(null)"Following string is different for topic "Attack" info 321254531168523746-"(null)"Previous string is different for topic "Attack" info 13500177932814824645-"Rarrh!"Following string is different for topic "Hello" info 1097260391359021977-"(null)"Previous string is different for topic "Hello" info 291042261518712192-"(null)"Following string is different for topic "Hello" info 32671263572417426268-"If you insist..."Previous string is different for topic "Hello" info 29416250231050910157-"(null)"Following string is different for topic "Idle" info 2753017911425526969-"Now... if I could just figure a scheme of classifying manifolds for TRI-PLY-connected surfaces... or even MORE complex surfaces..."Previous string is different for topic "Idle" info 16462055017136588-"(null)"Following string is different for topic "Idle" info 548912703529910651-"He should be here by now..."Previous string is different for topic "Idle" info 2839423402756528244-"(null)"Following string is different for topic "Beds" info 1594025613149529658-"Very well. Go down the stairs, and use the first room on your right. It's yours for the next day."Previous string is different for topic "Beds" info 2467420241504626206-"Very well, the bed is yours for the day. You'll find the room on the bottom floor, at the North end of the bar."Following string is different for topic "Beds" info 2467420241504626206-"Very well, the bed is yours for the day. You'll find the room on the bottom floor, at the North end of the bar."Previous string is different for topic "Beds" info 21432111501574114700-"It's all yours for the day. Down the stairs to the right."Following string is different for topic "Hit" info 299702217312473358-"Unngh!"Previous string is different for topic "Hit" info 1352870573219920531-"(null)"Following string is different for topic "Hit" info 1352870573219920531-"(null)"Previous string is different for topic "Hit" info 15912223092960525234-"Raragh!"Duplicate "teleport_enabler" (3875,3956,13945) in cell Dagoth Ur, Facility Cavern from file Bloodmoon.esm removed.1 duplicate references were removed.

Just left the CS afterward without saving... Are the error messages normal?

Incase it's related, I did install the patches and programs like this after installing MW:

1. Tribunal, 2. Tribunal Patch, 3. Bloodmoon, 4. Bloodmoon PatchThen installed in order:- Morrowind Code Patch by Hrnchamd- Timeslip’s .exe Optimizer on Morrowind.exe- the 4gb Patch Morrowind.exe- and Morrowind Patch Project

3. I got the following messages in the Warnings.txt:

Not able to find Foot part in _AYABOOTS_ARK.Not able to find Foot part in _AYABOOTS_ARK.Not able to find Foot part in _AYABOOTS_ARK.Not able to find Foot part in _AYABOOTS_ARK.Not able to find Foot part in _AYABOOTS_ARK.Texture "Textures\Tx_BC_moss.tga" count 3.Texture "Textures\_land_default.tga" count 3.Texture "Textures\menu_thick_border_bottom_right_corner.dds" count 2.

Are they somthing to be worried about or are they not that important as since they don't seem to cause CTD's?

4. Finally, I wanted to ask if there is a tutorial to explain how to just modify the base stats of one of the races... I wanted to change the Azurian Race's base stats since it's quite overpowered, is this something safe for a new player to do or should I better not do it (since the mod which adds this race adds a companion of said race too)


Sorry for asking so much questions (and posting such huge walls of texts) but it's the first time after years that I'm playing Morrowind and wanted to do it with mods this time since my new computer can finally handle them.

And thanks to anyone who would be willing to take the time to reply to them (though some of them might probably sound stupid to the people who know something about these tools and how to use them)
User avatar
Jamie Moysey
 
Posts: 3452
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 6:31 am

Post » Mon May 07, 2012 2:25 pm

GMSTs cleaning: I http://abot-morrowind.tk/index.php?option=content&Itemid=10&task=viewpost&id=53&-Morrowind-modding-for-smarties-part-3-tes3lint-tes3cmd-and-TESTool TESTool and tes3cmd.exe clean
And should I always clean mods with tools even if they are already marked as clean in the name (unless the read-me says not to clean, of course)?
if you want the extra-cleaning given by
tes3cmd.exe clean
, yes, else in theory they should have been cleaned by TESTool if properly used. I clean them anyway with both TESTool and tes3cmd.exe, and also remove the cleaned prefix from the mod name.
(And should I clean again the files that I will merge above once I'm finished or should they be clean if the original files were?)
If you merge using the CS "Combine Loaded Plugins" option, you can prevent generating evil GMSTs if you have both Tribunal.esm and Bloodmoon.esm loaded, else you can use something like Wrye/Manauser's http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes3Mod:GMST_Contamination. But the CS generates also dirty cell references, so properly cleaning is always better.
2. Since I never used CS before, I wanted to ask if it is normal to get such a list of warning when opening only the 3 original .esm in the CS?
Yes
Not able to find Foot part in _AYABOOTS_ARK.
I think they should not cause problem, but you can't say exactly until you find _AYABOOTS_ARK in game
Texture "Textures\Tx_BC_moss.tga" count 3.
Texture "Textures\_land_default.tga" count 3.
Texture "Textures\menu_thick_border_bottom_right_corner.dds" count 2.
no problem with these
User avatar
Sophie Payne
 
Posts: 3377
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:49 am

Post » Mon May 07, 2012 7:08 pm

--reference: .. Is it fine to merge plug-ins that require different masters (ex: one needing only morrowind and one needing all expansions, as long as all of the masters are under --reference)

--exclude_unchanged: Does this one create only a merged_objects.esp that still requires all the other .esp or does it merge all the .esp, but with the additional effect of merged objects?

You have a basic understanding of what they do. So Yes, and yes it requires all the plugins. You'd either want to use the single merged mod (all merged), or all the plugins + a merged objects esp. (Called merged objects so it follow's TEStool's implied use).


Are there some of them I should exclude from the list?

Will Smartmerger by default merge both objects/levelled list from .esp's? Since I intend to merge later several armor/weapon/item and creature mods that add levelled lists and merged_objects , both for the mods that end merged together + than another time between the resulting merged mods, but this times creating an additional Levelled list with Mash and Merged_objects.esp with Smartmerger... sounds probably confusing so this example might show a bit better what I'm trying to say:

The only ones that might give you issues really tend to be related to Dialog. That is, LGNPC (or specific ones within the set). Beyond that, I wouldn't see why not. It really depends on the mods in question, of what kind of changes you'd like or want to avoid. There's a lot of older mods that are greatly unbalancing. (Cheap weapons that do huge damage and huge enchantments that almost never break).

SmartMerger merges lists, so unless my understanding on how they work is wrong you don't need to use a separate tool to merge leveled lists. However if you feel safer using another tool to do the leveled lists, that's your choice.
User avatar
Sarah Evason
 
Posts: 3507
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:47 pm

Post » Mon May 07, 2012 8:52 pm

Thanks to both of your for your quick replies :biggrin:

GMSTs cleaning: I http://abot-morrowind.tk/index.php?option=content&Itemid=10&task=viewpost&id=53&-Morrowind-modding-for-smarties-part-3-tes3lint-tes3cmd-and-TESTool TESTool and tes3cmd.exe clean
if you want the extra-cleaning given by
tes3cmd.exe clean
, yes, else in theory they should have been cleaned by TESTool if properly used. I clean them anyway with both TESTool and tes3cmd.exe, and also remove the cleaned prefix from the mod name.

Does tes3cmd.exe do additional things than testool?
Didn't use it yet, gonna read the guide on it and on Perl first to understand it a bit better and avoid doing something stupid (tes3lint seems a bit too complicated yet, and since I don't know much about the CS by itself, I guess I'll better avoid using it yet)

So far I did only clean the mods with testool:

File: Birthsigns.esp==============================  deleted SKIL  25  deleted SPEL lady's grace  deleted SPEL star-curse  deleted SPEL lady's favor  deleted SPEL trollkin ability  deleted SPEL warywrd ability  deleted WEAP glass dagger  deleted CLOT common_amulet_01  deleted ARMO heavy_leather_boots  deleted BOOK bk_lustyargonianmaid  CELL Seyda Neen, Census and Excise Office	deleted AMBI	deleted CELL Seyda Neen, Census and Excise Office	 ; empty cell  deleted INFO 19208178212016431195			 ; Greeting 2  deleted DIAL Greeting 2							   ; empty dialog==============================Saved: Birthsigns.espFile: Clean Lich Robes addon.esp==============================  CELL Samarys Ancestral Tomb==============================File: Ebonite Race.esp==============================  deleted GMST sTeleportDisabled  deleted GMST sLevitateDisabled  deleted GMST sWerewolfRefusal  deleted GMST sWerewolfPopup  deleted GMST sWerewolfRestMessage  deleted GMST sWerewolfAlarmMessage  deleted GMST sMaxSale  deleted GMST sDeleteNote  deleted GMST sEditNote  deleted GMST sProfitValue  deleted GMST sCompanionShare  deleted GMST sCompanionWarningMessage  deleted GMST sCompanionWarningButtonOne  deleted GMST sCompanionWarningButtonTwo  deleted GMST fWereWolfRunMult  deleted GMST fWereWolfSilverWeaponDamageMult  deleted GMST iWereWolfBounty  deleted GMST fWereWolfStrength  deleted GMST fWereWolfAgility  deleted GMST fWereWolfEndurance  deleted GMST fWereWolfSpeed  deleted GMST fWereWolfHandtoHand  deleted GMST fWereWolfUnarmored  deleted GMST iWereWolfLevelToAttack  deleted GMST iWereWolfFightMod  deleted GMST iWereWolfFleeMod  deleted GMST fWereWolfAthletics  deleted GMST fWereWolfAcrobatics  deleted GMST fWereWolfHealth  deleted GMST fWereWolfFatigue  deleted GMST fWereWolfMagicka  deleted GMST fWereWolfIntellegence  deleted GMST fWereWolfWillPower  deleted GMST fWereWolfPersonality  deleted GMST fWereWolfLuck  deleted GMST fWereWolfBlock  deleted GMST fWereWolfArmorer  deleted GMST fWereWolfMediumArmor  deleted GMST fWereWolfHeavyArmor  deleted GMST fWereWolfBluntWeapon  deleted GMST fWereWolfLongBlade  deleted GMST fWereWolfAxe  deleted GMST fWereWolfSpear  deleted GMST fWereWolfDestruction  deleted GMST fWereWolfAlteration  deleted GMST fWereWolfIllusion  deleted GMST fWereWolfConjuration  deleted GMST fWereWolfMysticism  deleted GMST fWereWolfRestoration  deleted GMST fWereWolfEnchant  deleted GMST fWereWolfAlchemy  deleted GMST fWereWolfSecurity  deleted GMST fWereWolfSneak  deleted GMST fWereWolfLightArmor  deleted GMST fWereWolfShortBlade  deleted GMST fWereWolfMarksman  deleted GMST fWereWolfMerchantile  deleted GMST fWereWolfSpeechcraft  deleted GMST fCombatDistanceWerewolfMod  deleted GMST fFleeDistance  deleted GMST sEffectSummonFabricant  deleted GMST sEffectSummonCreature01  deleted GMST sEffectSummonCreature02  deleted GMST sEffectSummonCreature03  deleted GMST sEffectSummonCreature04  deleted GMST sEffectSummonCreature05  deleted GMST sMagicFabricantID  deleted GMST sMagicCreature01ID  deleted GMST sMagicCreature02ID  deleted GMST sMagicCreature03ID  deleted GMST sMagicCreature04ID  deleted GMST sMagicCreature05ID  CELL  -2  -2, Balmora	deleted CELL  -2  -2, Balmora						 ; empty cell  CELL  -4  -2, Balmora	deleted CELL  -4  -2, Balmora						 ; empty cell==============================Saved: Ebonite Race.espFile: Gatanas Markynaz Dremora Companion - Female.esp==============================  CELL  -1  -3, Moonmoth Legion Fort  CELL  -2  -2, Balmora	deleted CELL  -2  -2, Balmora						 ; empty cell  deleted INFO 16043312532573123088			 ; Greeting 0  deleted INFO 28827273581366114744			 ; Hello  deleted INFO 299702217312473358			   ; Hit==============================Saved: Gatanas Markynaz Dremora Companion - Female.espFile: Westly Presents Nuada and Nuala.esp==============================  CELL Ghostgate, Tower of Dawn	deleted FRMR 270820, chest_small_01_gold_25	deleted FRMR 341077, chest_01_v_potion_ap_01==============================Saved: Westly Presents Nuada and Nuala.espFile: Westly Presents_Aureals.esp==============================  CELL   9  16, Grazelands Region  CELL   8  20, Sheogorad  CELL   4  20, Sheogorad  CELL   4  19, Sheogorad	deleted CELL   4  19, Sheogorad					   ; empty cell  CELL  -2  21, Sheogorad	deleted CELL  -2  21, Sheogorad					   ; empty cell  CELL  -2  20, Sheogorad==============================Saved: Westly Presents_Aureals.espFile: Westly Presents-Dremora Markynaz.esp==============================  CELL Secret of the Kyn==============================Saved: Westly Presents-Dremora Markynaz.espFile: Westly Presents-Golden Saint.esp==============================  CELL Ihinipalit, Shrine	deleted FRMR 149430, gulitte cienne==============================Saved: Westly Presents-Golden Saint.esp

shortened it a bit (mainly removed the already clean mods from list and the multiple "deleted WGHT + deleted AMBI" since they are supposed to be identical and apparently can be savely deleted without any conflict)

But I have a few questions (to avoid future misunderstandings):

1. When it says only
" CELL Samarys Ancestral Tomb"
or
" CELL Secret of the Kyn"
in the log, does it mean it deleted the whole interior cells? (since atleast in case of the 2nd entry here, it is needed for another mod that has a dependany on this one for a quest (from what I understand from the original read-me of the concerned mod)

2. As far as I understood, this one doesn't delete the cell itself but only the object "FRMR 149430, gulitte cienne" from this place which is identic to the masters but got marked as edited, but infact is still the same?
CELL Ihinipalit, Shrine
deleted FRMR 149430, gulitte cienne

3. Does this basically mean it just remove the marked edits for this specific interior from the mod, since it's actually the same as ingame?
CELL Seyda Neen, Census and Excise Office
deleted AMBI
deleted CELL Seyda Neen, Census and Excise Office ; empty cell

4. Is this basically the same as above, just for exterior cells
CELL 9 16, Grazelands Region
CELL 8 20, Sheogorad
CELL 4 20, Sheogorad

5. Are there any other things in this list for which I should watch out?

Sorry again if some of these questions sound stupid, but since I'm not experienced with modding, I prefer to make sure to avoid stupid errors that could end up breaking the game...

If you merge using the CS "Combine Loaded Plugins" option, you can prevent generating evil GMSTs if you have both Tribunal.esm and Bloodmoon.esm loaded, else you can use something like Wrye/Manauser's http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes3Mod:GMST_Contamination. But the CS generates also dirty cell references, so properly cleaning is always better.

I was intending to merge them in Smartmerger (since it doesn't overwrite different new objects added to the same NPC/Container and only keeps the last change, but is supposed to let you keep all the new changes from different mods when merging), does adding Morrowind/Tribunal/Bloodmoon.esm together as masters (with "--reference") has the same effect?

I think they should not cause problem, but you can't say exactly until you find _AYABOOTS_ARK in game

_AYABOOTS_ARK seems to be related to the Desert Boots added by the Aya Brea mod, and the warning appears only when I picked them up and equipped them, but they seem to display right in the game and don't seem to cause problems so far.

You have a basic understanding of what they do. So Yes, and yes it requires all the plugins. You'd either want to use the single merged mod (all merged), or all the plugins + a merged objects esp. (Called merged objects so it follow's TEStool's implied use).

So basically if I simply want to merge them all into one file, keep all added items/weapons/creatures/etc (without having some possibly overwritten by newer mods), but choose which changes to keep incase several mods change the same item, this command line should work best for the above mentioned list, right?

SmartMerger.exe --dup_id_check "Morrowind.esm" "Tribunal.esm" "Bloodmoon.esm" --reference --choice All "Birthsigns.esp" "Drow_Signs_v2.1.esp" "Aya Brea.esp" "Clean Bags O′Bones.esp" "Clean Lich Robes addon.esp" "Ebonite Race.esp" "Gatanas Markynaz Dremora Companion - Female.esp" "Ice Siren.esp" "New Khajiit Diversity(BEAST)X.esp" "Oread Race.esp" "Westly Presents Nuada and Nuala.esp" "Westly Presents The V'Kai.esp" "Westly Presents-Altaran.esp" "Westly Presents-Dremora Markynaz.esp" "Westly Presents-Golden Saint.esp" "Westly Presents-M'harjaan.esp" "Westly Presents-Sarek.esp" "Westly Presents_Aureals.esp" "Westly Presents_Exiles of Akavir_N.esp" "Westly Presents_Half-Troll.esp" "Westly Presents_Halflings (nvde).esp" "Westly Presents_Tahnuk_Races.esp" "Westly's Master Headpack X.esp" "Westly_Presents_Tang Mo_People of the Waters.esp" "Xenn's Shadowscales.esp" --plugin "Combined Races.esp"

While ""--exclude_unchanged" is basically to only create merged_list.esp.

The only ones that might give you issues really tend to be related to Dialog. That is, LGNPC (or specific ones within the set). Beyond that, I wouldn't see why not.

So it's possible to merge mods that either add companions and/or have an dependancy on each other like these two:
035 Westly Presents-Dremora Markynaz.esp
036 Gatanas Markynaz Dremora Companion - Female.esp
And they would still work perfectly fine?

And while I intend to use the LGNPC mods, I guess I prefer to avoid merging them so far since I've read several times that this might cause CTD later in the game and other unwanted bugs, guess I'll rather wait till it can be done savely or the mod creators release a whole compilation file, though this will probably not be for tomorrow (just saying, not complaining or anything, not that someone misunderstands...)

It really depends on the mods in question, of what kind of changes you'd like or want to avoid. There's a lot of older mods that are greatly unbalancing. (Cheap weapons that do huge damage and huge enchantments that almost never break).

Yes, I'd prefer to avoid mods with overpowered weapons/armour or that add cheat items, but sometimes the description isn't very specific about their actual stats.

SmartMerger merges lists, so unless my understanding on how they work is wrong you don't need to use a separate tool to merge leveled lists. However if you feel safer using another tool to do the leveled lists, that's your choice.

I actually ment creating a levelled list and merged_objects.esp after merging all mods depending on the content they add (except those real big mods or those that are still work-in-progress or regularly updated), since for example some of the races mods add items to existing merchants and new creatures/loot to the leveled list.
Not meaning to say the tool was bad or anything, just meant to add both lists for all the resulting mods to avoid any conflict...


Thanks again to both of you for taking the time to reply to my questions.
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мistrєss
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 10:49 pm

So basically if I simply want to merge them all into one file, keep all added items/weapons/creatures/etc (without having some possibly overwritten by newer mods), but choose which changes to keep incase several mods change the same item, this command line should work best for the above mentioned list, right?


SmartMerger.exe --dup_id_check "Morrowind.esm" "Tribunal.esm" "Bloodmoon.esm" --reference --choice All "Birthsigns.esp" "Drow_Signs_v2.1.esp" "Aya Brea.esp" ...

You can do that. the --dup_id_check won't do you much, unless there's actually a ID clash. If there is a clash, It will tell you. (Although without the flag it won't try to fix it). There's something like 200+ INFO in the dialog entries that aren't unique, in the original masters. Quite curious when I found it the first time (later I think abot confirmed it.)

The only real downside with the --choice option, is that it doesn't save any of your choices for later unless you save them as a file. I have planned to add 'priorities' to files(and records and fields) allowing you to prefer certain changes over others. But that won't be until the new version is re-written.

So it's possible to merge mods that either add companions and/or have an dependency on each other like these two:
...
And they would still work perfectly fine?

I haven't looked over those exact mods in question, but if they add new NPC's but don't mess with anything it should be fine. Most likely Dialog would be the ones to change, probably the invite/disband options. If you're wondering if any clashes at all happen, might use --print_esm_clash, which effectively makes all changes clashes so you can see it all :wink:
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J.P loves
 
Posts: 3487
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:03 am

Post » Mon May 07, 2012 3:47 pm

Does tes3cmd.exe do additional things than testool?
Yes, redundant WHGT (water height) for interior cells.
1. When it says only
" CELL Samarys Ancestral Tomb"
or
" CELL Secret of the Kyn"
in the log, does it mean it deleted the whole interior cells?
No, you see "deleted" near deleted things in the log
it is needed for another mod that has a dependany on this one for a quest (from what I understand from the original read-me of the concerned mod)
testool deletes (if "Restricted cell cleaning" option is OFF) only completely empty cells. If such an empty cell is referenced/used by mod, you can set "Restricted cell cleaning" ON or (better) ensure cell is not empty (e.g. add a static to the cell with CS) so other unneeded empty cells may still be cleaned by TESTool.


Merging N mods, keeping object changes: I currently
- select N mods in TESTool, generate merged_objects.esp
- load N mods, merged_objects.esp in CS, combine loaded plugins as N_merged_combined.esp, clean N_merged_combined.esp with testool/tes3cmd for safety.
Sadly TESTool suffers from a buffer overflow error, so N is limited and you have to iterate.

IMO smartmerger would greatly benefit as mod-user tool from a single button to emulate this (and only/exactly this, without the N restriction of course).
I've not been able to obtain the same N_merged_combined.esp with smartmerger so far, probably logic/parameters settings/ordering is different/I am not (or willing to grow) smart enough.

TEStool Cleaning dialogs: usually deleted starting/ending dialog entries in double-linked dialog lists can be reconstructed on the fly by Morrowind engine, but I think TESTool with "Restricted dialog cleaning" OFF (which is deleting changes to top-bottom entries on dialog double linked list) can screw things with mods that unwillingly change original topics instead of new created topics.
Merging dialogs: I think some historically reported problems with using TESTool merge dialogs derived more from using it also with "Restricted dialog cleaning" OFF, (modders did not realize they changed original topics, people can't remember/report how exactly they used testool/played/what mods they used, so common belief is: don't use testool merge dialogs with my mod, it will screw things) but I may be wrong.
A pity TESTool source is not available, it could be better understood/fixed.

Smartmerge can't (yet) handle commonly used worst scenario cases (e.g. LGNPC series), so no safe "merge all dialog" button for now, but this seems more a mod-user than a mod-maker need, so I still have hopes.
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tannis
 
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Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:21 pm

Post » Tue May 08, 2012 5:45 am

Smartmerger can't (yet) handle commonly used worst scenario cases (e.g.LGNPC series), so no
safe "merge all dialog" button for now, but this seems more a mod-user than a mod-maker need, so I still have hopes.

If you use --no_dialog_merge then it works fine (appending dialog rather than merging); However it not being able to handle these unique hard scenarios is a major annoyance. I suppose I can add an extra loop that finalizes a dialog pathways and then attempt further merging.
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Melissa De Thomasis
 
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Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:52 pm

Post » Mon May 07, 2012 4:57 pm

If you use --no_dialog_merge then it works fine (appending dialog rather than merging);
I have not clear what appended dialog is. It sounds like a copy of original dialog, if so, why not simply strip it? No purpose loading same thing 2 times.
But while I have merged objects concept and advantages clear (and historically working well since TESTool, text buffer limit/scripts apart), I admit I have the entire concept of merged dialog and its advantages not so clear, and never seen it explained/100% working so far.
I was used to see it like a way to solve modders errors/lack of compatibility efforts with dialogue, but the more we delve into it, the more its seems difficult to do automatically. If you have the proper algorithm, go for it, if it is slow, you could try caching like tes3cmd do, but speed is not so important if it works without crashing/looping, I would not care waiting half a day for a properly merged dialog solving quest breakings.
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Leonie Connor
 
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Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:18 pm

Post » Mon May 07, 2012 8:03 pm

I have not clear what appended dialog is. It sounds like a copy of original dialog, if so, why not simply strip it? No purpose loading same thing 2 times.

Unfortunately the CS by default does make you reload certain key parts of any dialog twice, specifically the one before the inserted dialog and the one after. Reason being to update the PNAM/NNAM records (Which is why you get the 'these dialogs differ' warnings).

To strip it if you felt that was the right answer, --no_merge "Dial;Info;*" should do it.


But not to confuse it, dialogs are like any of the other records, it just has less information. Namely it has text, it's link connection (via linked list), requirements in order to get the dialog, and a script (I may be missing something). But helping with compatibilities is likely the biggest reason to merge dialog. I really wish they had a different setup for the dialog structure, perhaps something slightly abstract (these three go together), and let an internal sorter handle the details of order (Most specific to general). The main reason I have not gone with this solution, is it likely would end up making every merge 'the full monty' as SpiffyMan calls it. (I could do this technique on only added items. Hmmm... Perhaps that's the answer)
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Wane Peters
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 6:50 pm

Thanks again to both of you for helping me :laugh:

I've cleaned all plugins and merged almost all of them into a single working file.

The only ones it didn't work were those two that added companions, for which the merged file directly caused a CTD when trying to start a new game,
apparently related to problems with the scripts of those files...

Unable to find referenced object "3azurian_companion" in script ariel_teleport_script.Expression Error Unable to find referenced object "1jw_dae_dremoraprayeract" in script 1jw_dae_prayerscript.

though that isn't really a problem...
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Stay-C
 
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