Greetings Lore-Khan's,

What I am about to ask of you is rather simple. I enjoy the whole companions mods brought into morrowind, but I always disliked when they detracted from the main story, or went off on thier own slant on things. Now a lot of what I am about to say or suggest is largely based on assumptions, so thats why I am acknowledging this here and now, and am starting a thread on it! So please state your thoughts here, and not call me a dimwit on the Storyboard .

Firstly, I acknowledge that this first part is not canon by a long shot, and I may end up dropping it, or make an alternate esp for it, but there is a new mod out called "Xenn's Shadowscales" claiming to be lore-based, as far as lore based Argonian's born under the sign of the Shadow can be. But the creatures do look cool (Yes, I know.) And there is a comparison pic http://lh3.ggpht.com/_8cygzyeG3BY/SbHca2C6waI/AAAAAAAAATM/mnKyMttouA0/s800/ScreenShot%2026.JPG

Huleeya before, and after.

The idea is to make Huleeya a companion for the Nerevarine after he/she has completed the "Informants in Vivec" quest and joined the Morag Tong. Being that the character of Huleeya is the most interesting to me, a scholarly assassin who lives in bookstores, fiercely proud of his heritage, yet very interested in the very people whom have had so much conflict with his, and knowledgeable of the Nerevarine Prophecies would make an excellent companion.

I also make the argument that the Nerevarine needs a shield-thane like Nerevar had Alandro Sul. The 'witness' or something? Whatever. Thats what you guys are for.

Where you guys come in, is that I want Huleeya to have dialogue, (I plan on having a LOT of this, like, make Julan look like he's mute.) and conversations with the player, about how this reminds him of the story he read, what the meaning of this event is, really bring lore into a mod like never before.

I want to run everything through the lore-khan community for canonical accuracy, even though I want to make Huleeya a Shadowscale because I think it's cool.

If you would be interested in this, please let me know!

Thanks for reading!

So what exactly is it that you need us for?

I assume Scribe is going to post things and ask for input on whether it's true to the lore. Either than or he's asking for volunteers to do that through personal messages (or something like that). :shrug:

Anyways, good luck on the mod.

Sounds like a good idea.

Anyway good luck with the mod, if you need any help/suggestions and stuff give me a call.

Ah forgive me for not being clearer. Yes, I intend to post conversations and ask questions on how accurate the lore and stories are, especially with the Ashlanders, as that seems to be Huleeya's particular area of interest.

Example: Huleeya and the PC walk into the Ghostgate, and they both see a Buoyant Armiger, Huleeya says something along the lines of: "My Dunmeri isnt perfecti, but one may assume that 'Buoyant Armiger' means "Vivec's Boy Toy."

Sounds like a plan.

I love the "Vivec's Boy Toy" part. Ha ha.

All right, my first lore-accuracy question has come up, as folks seem to be driven to make his new look the 'Shadowscale' Argonian part of his background somehow. In the OB convoluted lore, where Shadowscales, Argonians born under the sign of the shadow, are presented to the Dark Brotherhood at birth, and trained in the arts of stealth and assassination, then serve the "Royal Kingdom of Argonia" (What?!) as spies and assassins, then they may join the brotherhood after a certain age if they survive long enough.

Contradictions: Huleeya is a Morrowind native presumably, as his parents were bound in slavery, and he is an Imperial Citizen

Huleeya is a member of the Morag Tong, and has a dislike of the Brotherhood, warning the PC not too confuse the honorable tong with that league of murderers-for-hire.

Huleeya has likely never met a Dark Brother, and likely has not been to Argonia.

There is nothing for, nor against, a Shadowscale being a dark color based on phases of the moons, though stating that this 'would' happen is rewriting lore, and basically monkeytruth.

Perhaps I should just drop the title "Shadowscale" and go with the new look without the title?

Thoughts?

It's a real big marsh out there. Some (most) Shadowscales don't join the Dark Brotherhood and I'm sure some of them are black. Oblivion's Argonians could be facegenned into many different color schemes.

Ah, thats what I'm looking for. Then that leads to the next question.

Does simply being born under the shadow and being argonian make a shadowscale? Or is the DB training, and the whole serving the royal kingdom what imbues the title?

Shadowscales, as far as I understand, are any Argonians born under the sign of the Shadow. But it depends on culture whether or not they are sent away for training. In the remote areas, there are probably a lot more of them trained than there are in urban Black Marsh, and only the trained ones are Shadowscale in anything but name.

As I would say the "Shadowscales" are any Argonian born under the Shadow, but as Gallowglass said: they're not "Shadowscales" as in the fearsome Argonian assassin/spy league.

Excellent! Thanks all for the input. Ill implement this into the mod, and I added a disclaimer to the WIP thread as the "Shadowscale' part of the title came from Xenn's mod really, but I do plan on adding a script that will have him become invisible while in sneak mode, so I'll likely have that as a topic under his abilities.

"I am born under the sign of the Shadow, so I can make myself invisible, no I am not a Shadowscale."

:Shadowscale:
"Any Argonian born under the sign of the Shadow is called a Shadowscale, but as I understand it, it has a deeper implication in Black Marsh. Where hatchlings are taken to the Dark Brotherhood and trained in the arts of stealth and assassination. I confess I do not know much more then that, as I have never been to Argonia, nor would I ever serve the Dark Brotherhood. That I am a shadowscale and an agent in the Morag Tong is merely a coincidence."

All right, next question.

Rather than make Huleeya a wlkaing 'Lore-for-Dummies' machine, Naajaw recently pointed out that we know more then NPC's, and if we write things like "I once heard a conversation of how Akatosh and Lorkhan are one in the same, as one is Time, and one is Space, and space and time are inseperable..." that would not fit the character of Huleeya at all.

So how much is too much? What would Huleeya know? What wouldn't he know?

Discuss! (And, thanks in advance!)

no offense or anything, but you might want to check up on the grammar in the posted dialog. there are some awkward sentences going on.

as for the question at hand, i would roleplay the character and build his background. so far we know that he is a morrowind native and a member of the MT, so his view of mythos would probably be tainted by all this. he would probably have more of a dunmer outlook on the daedra/aedra and creation, since he is surrounded by his culture. since he is an assassin i would not expect him to know much about mythology or metaphysics, i would keep his knowlege to more practical matters.

I don't know. You are writing her.

It isn't so much that she wouldn't know about space and time, but that she'd talk about it differently when she does. So you have to make up a religious perspective for Argonians.

"Root to root, but then ...."

"...then the egg cracked and it began...".

"...feathers in the trees, we are blessed".


But I don't think you should have her mention Shadow scales until the player has heard about them and then only when he asks. Otherwise you are talking to the player, not his character.

I'll check my grammar, when you check your capitalization. (Kidding! Relax!)

Thanks for the input. You make a strong case for Huleeya's outlook which is one of the things that appeals to me with him, a Morrowind Argonian Native, the son of slaves.

Considering that he's Morag Tong, it's probably safe to say that he at least looks favorably on Mephala, possibly even worshiping her (discretely, of course). This could then tie back in to his second-generation free Argonian history and he rejects the Tribunal church because it is the church of the Dark Elven Masters.

If you do play up his bitterness at his would-be masters, then he would also get a certain satisfaction from killing House Members; a way of striking at them in a sanctioned manner.

I'd have to comb Huleeya's unique dialogue and given circumstances again to offer you any more potential insights.

Sound advice. And I like those quotes...a lot. May I use them? Assuming Root to Root means Anuiel-Sithis / Lorkhan-Akatosh? And what does 'feathers in the trees, we are blessed." mean exactly?

Crack!@ That's good stuff...more based towards the personality side, but I've been having trouble in that area anyways.

Just thought you might like to view http://imperial-library.info/fsg/brendanarticle1.shtml from the 'thread next door' on argonians - it dispells some myths at any rate. And might help when you are reading newer material.

It means, don't think like that.

You have to fill them out and give them meaning, but you can't use any of those words you just used or think in those terms. Think about feathered tree gods, lizards and eggs. You have to think like an Argonian. Imagine what it would be like to believe you belong to the trees.

If you want to be lore correct, you have to make it so awesome that a vague similarity to the already established pattern is enough to convince everybody your vision is right and correct. So if you can reuse already established material, all the better. Just don't simply copy it.

I hadn't planned on it, mostly there may be some quotes during dialogue.