Take a look at this screenshot:

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/7192/screenshot39e.jpg

This is what I see every time I exit Megaton, ever since I passed the part of the MQ where the enclave assault project purity. The vertibirds fly all over the place and drop off big, huge groups like this that kill everything else in the game. Basically my playthrough is FWE+MMM+Wasteland Patrols, and it was a blast until now. I thought maybe there was a way to stop these vertibird landings by beating the MQ, but I'm up to the part where Broken Steel begins and this is still happening. There's no way to actually fight it on my own, even using a Fat Man. The enclave soldiers have 500+ hp each, seem to have high guns skills and perception (they NEVER miss even when at long range, even when crippled sometimes) and huge DR rating, and to top it off there's always 10-12+ of them. It's not that I'm not looking for a challenge but it's kind of ruined the wasteland that I had created with mods.

Is there a mod to reduce or eliminate the vertibird drop-offs? Is there some part of the Broken Steel MQ where these stop, or is my save file basically screwed and I will always run into these guys now as long as I have the FWE/MMM modules affecting these encounters? I'd appreciate any suggestions.

Thanks in advance and here's my load order in case anyone was curious:

Mark addressed this in his Wasteland Patrols for removing / reducing the Enclave.
Else you can do as I did, SHAMELESS PLUG use Enclave Commander-no free ride,

http://www.fallout3n...le.php?id=15462

hire a bunch of Brotherhood (if you have the caps) and clean them out. Set repawn for a week or more using a variable respawn mod.

Having so many enemies spawn is from MMM....it happened to me I.


bigcrazewolf

Re-arrange your load order according to FWE instructions, http://sites.google.com/site/fo3wanderersedition/installation#TOC-Load-Order-Compatibility and make a new merged patch. All the MMM stuff should load after FWE.

Then I would uncheck all the MMM plugins, FOIPs, and merged patch, load the game, make a full save, exit. Then enable all the MMM plugins, FOIPs, and merged patch. Wait in an interior cell with no other actors for eight days to respawn everything.

Controlling the enclave wouldn't do much good. I actually find that anything more than the occasional patrol which is added from Mark's mod breaks immersion, because they're a big dog that eats all the small ones. That defeats the purpose of Wasteland Patrols, which is supposed to create an equally dangerous wasteland.

I stay on top of his mod a lot. I didn't see any instructions he put in there to remove or reduce them, what is the process?



Not sure how to do this. Also, why is it bad if MMM loads before FWE? Shouldn't there be no difference?

>>This is what I see every time I exit Megaton, ever since I passed the part of the MQ where the enclave assault project purity. The vertibirds fly all over the place and drop off big, huge groups like this that kill everything else in the game.<<

The vertibirds from Wasteland Patrols..... Since I installed that mod the vertibirds drop off enclave solders frequently in Springfield near Megaton. There are about EIGHT enclave guys there now. I don't use MMM or FWE in this game.

I just lost 15 BrotherHood of Steel men (and 1500 bottlecaps in hire fees from Enclave Commander no Free Ride) taking out a checkpoint then just discovered that accumulated batch.

>>Senaattori : Had to remove this mod because enclaves just kept coming and coming, no matter where I were. <<

Senaattori goes on to describe LOTS on enclave apparently in his game lots are dropping in.....

Marks comment replies:
http://www.thenexusforums.com/index.php?/topic/189513-markb50k-balance-mod-endorsemants/page__st__60
---------------

>>ok, new version V4 up. REQUIRES FOSE!!!!!!!!

old script did a big if/else, and now i use a cleaner random pick from a formlist to choose the type of patrol. Now you will see much more variety of spawns.
you can edit the formlist in FO3Edit to tweak the chances of the type of spawns you see

:also read up on the new global value 'mbDisableVertibirds' - use this whenever you have any save-crashes or having problems loading after dealing with the vertibirds. sometimes the vertibird script can lose references and errors out. This will disable any vertibirds from my mod that are in your save games memory. after you see the popup message you can safely set the variable back to 0. <<
-------------

Senaattori downloads the updated mod and sees less Enclave.

The way random numbers work is that they are not so random, one can get the same result several times in a row, but I agree, the Enclave can be scaled back especially after a certain point in the game if that path has been taken.

>>you can edit the formlist in FO3Edit to tweak the chances of the type of spawns you see<<

Didn't work.

I loaded up my game in my megaton house, typed 'set mbdisablevertibirds to 1', slept ingame for 3 days (thats my FWE respawn timer) and upon exiting megaton I still go down like Sean Connery in the Untouchables by 4 Enclave veterans, 3 enclave commandos, 3 enclave enforcers, deathclaw, etc.

And yea, im using the latest version.

>4 Enclave veterans, 3 enclave commandos, 3 enclave enforcers, deathclaw, etc.<

HOLY CRAP

>>you can edit the formlist in FO3Edit to tweak the chances of the type of spawns you see<<

Did that help? remove the Enclave entirely from it if needed, but there are usually numbers representing the percentages for what appears. I did not look at the file myself in the GECK or FO3edit so I'm not sure what the title of the form is exactly (not at my FO3 computer right now).

EDIT
Mark wrote
- TO EDIT what kinds of spawns, just edit FLST 'mbConflictOrderedList' in FO3Edit or GECK. You can put multiple copies of the same entry in the Form List if you want it more likely a particular type of spawn is picked

I remember Mark suggesting that. The problem is though, when I tinkered with FO3edit I couldn't figure out how to use it or modify the .esp. I looked for a guide but couldn't find one. I'm not a modder so tools like that are completely alien to me.

In any case, can we be sure that the encounters are really caused by Wasteland Patrols? How do we know that?

Another test: I straight up disabled Mark's mod in the FOMM. I went to the megaton house, slept 3 days, came out of megaton, and the same [censored] happened. Even with the mod off.

This is pissing me off. I feel like now I either have to start over (from a 88 hour playthrough not even finished yet) or lame through all the enclave armies through long-range incinerator spam, hoping to see something else besides them.

This is really ODD.

I checked an earlier save about two levels old and the Enclave checkpoint northwest of the Super Duper Mart has only one firestorm soldier there. Later on there is 6 or so Enclave people.

Disabling Marks Wasteland Patrol Mod should remove HIS Enclave. I do not use MMM or FWE in this game so I do not know what could be generating all these guys other than Marks mod. I have not disabled Marks yet except in cases where I get the save game crash.

His vertibirds usually hang around and try to follow up with an attack. The Fallout non mod variants just drop off two guys and take off. The one place vertibirds show up regularly is across the from the library, but I never see an infestation there.

I would think it odd indeed Fallout itself is generating all these Enclave but it could be what is happening.

Wait, are you saying all these 'classes' of Enclave soldiers like the 'Veteran' 'Commando' 'Firestarter' 'Enforcer' etc are from Mark's mod? I thought it was from MMM or FWE. I thought the only enclave added from his mod were those named 'Enclave Patrol.'

I'm just doubtful of this, because if it was his mod causing that, then why don't they disappear after disabling his mod?

Also another test:

I loaded my game, typed 'set mbdisablevertibirds to 1' and slept 3 days. I then fast-traveled to Vault 101. I took out the enclave in springvale and then worked my way up to the group over at megaton (many of these I had to use the 'kill' console command otherwise I would've died in 3 shots even with 50 DR). During this time I recieved messages saying 'vertibird was blocked, if you want to change this, set the value to 0.' I went back to my megaton house, slept 3 days, walked out of Megaton, and all of the Enclave had respawned.

I really don't know what the issue causing this is. It's definitely a bug of some sort and unfortunately, I have no older save to revert to prior to the project purity raid. I'm going to have to start all over. Warning to all of you using this mod, do NOT do the MQ. And by the way, once you go past level 20, these enclave soldiers get impossible to kill - enforcers have 800 HP plus the damage resistance of both power armor and innate mutant DR. Even a Fat Man strike won't kill a whole group of them sometimes.

edit: I know what you mean about the numbers you just mentioned. When they first started showing up, it was groups of like 3, or 5 max. Then it became whole platoons.

btw, this was my shaved down load order when I did it. Thoughts?:

There IS that increased respawns mod.
Mart's Mutant Mod - Increased Spawns.esp
Maybe get rid of that?

>>Wait, are you saying all these 'classes' of Enclave soldiers like the 'Veteran' 'Commando' 'Firestarter' 'Enforcer' etc are from Mark's mod?>>

I don't know about THAT, with Marks mod disabled, HIS stuff should be gone. I'll have to look in the Geck for Marks pet names if any.
In my game, I just use the mod Enclave Commander-no free ride,

http://www.fallout3n...le.php?id=15462

hire a bunch of Brotherhood (if you have the caps) and clean them out.
With the original Enclave Commander mod, it was too much of a cheat, hire guys without consequences.
This way I pay 500 caps for each group of 5 soldiers, hiring only the Brotherhood to stay LORE since i'm doing their quests and it wold seem logical they would send help on Enclave infestations (for a resonable fee to help them adjust "mission priorities").

The mod seems to run very stable now with the fixes. Before it Enclave Commander CTD'd, almost on every firefight when someone died, but I just had 15 guys help clear out a 7 or 8 Enclave man checkpoint and NO CTD!!! What a fight! They all died, but it was a grand battle with heroes on every side!

Of course this requires lots of caps (I have 6000 but now 4000+) so it bites into that batch (WHAT else to spend them on).

Else start over ( I would not personally do that)
or go TGM only at those Enclave infestations (Lore, thou has slain me)

That's only a short term solution.

These squads are all over the wasteland, not just in front of megaton. It almost seems like there isn't a place on the wasteland where there isn't a group of 8+ of them. And even if I do wipe them out with BoS soldiers, as fun as that sounds, I don't want to be doing every time there's a 3-day respawn.

I'm eventually going to start over but guh, not for a long time. Really bummed out about this.

edit: I just found something out. The Super Mutants and Deathclaws who have been brainwashed by the Enclave and turned into their servants are actually from MMM. If you look at the 28 august images on images section on the MMM link, you'll see them:

http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3211#fileanchor

So, I am not sure if MMM is causing the problem here with these enclave spawns constantly showing up but we can be sure that at least half of the spawns are created by MMM.

edit x2:

I just found out what is causing some of the problems.

I disabled mark's mod. No difference at all.

I disabled MMM only, then the Deathclaws and the Mutants went away but the Enclave 'Trooper' and 'Veteran' etc class-based actors were still there tearing me to pieces.

I then disabled both MMM and FWE, and the enclave squad was still there, only this time there were no deathclaws, no super mutants, and also each and every enclave squad member was named 'Enclave Soldier,' and they had no more than 150-250 HP each and their damage was considerably less.

So, we can gather from this that it's MMM that causes the Deathclaws and Super Mutant enclave actors, and it's FWE that adds classes to the Enclave much like it does to the Super Mutant 'gunners' 'breakers' etc and the raider 'Fallen Brother' 'Medicine Man' actors. The problem with this though is that the FWE team not only does not list this as one of their mod's changes, it's not modular either. It can't be disabled without the FWE Main File being disabled. As for why these Enclave soldiers are always spawning at these same locations no matter what, I don't know. All I know is that I had MMM, FWE, and Wasteland Patrols ALL disabled and they still kept appearing. It seems that one of the mods makes a change that can't be reversed vis a vis the enclave after the waters of life, even if you disable their mod.

They've already announced that they consider FWE in a 'finished state,' so either they would have to go back and make a change somehow or I'd have to start a new game here.

You can make the spawns longer if you want with a variable spawn mod to get through the game and do all the added content. I just updated Enclave Commander No Free Ride to make it more "lore imbedded." To test I have been cleaning out the Enclave checkpoint and Springfield infestation again and again and no ctds with extended battles.

I'm glad you found this out. I have been having trouble running MMM because of a consistent CTD in an area, so I just left it off. I may revisit it after going through it with FOMM to make conflicts green as much as possible with the mod load before I lay it on. Your situation does give me pause, however.

The main things to remember are these:

-MMM adds the deathclaws and mutants to the enclave.
-FWE adds NPC classes with outrageous skill/hp/DR.
-Wasteland Patrols is what puts them in locations they shouldn't be in the very first place, whereas normally MMM/FWE changes would only be visible at the enclave outposts around the wasteland and the storyline mode.

Regarding Wasteland Patrols, I think this is the problem with the vertibirds; gamesas must have made it so anywhere where a vertibird would land, there would always be enclave there. But they limited these locations to specific areas (such as the spawn point outside Arlington Library) without expanding them, so it never became a problem. Mark's Wasteland Patrols mod takes the same script used for that small amount of locations and applies it to a large number of locations, based on two parameters:

A.) a chance to spawn one if an eyebot is destroyed.
B.) random patrol spawns that spawn enclaves instead of other patrol types (which are ALL over the wasteland).
C.) chance to spawn if enclave targets have been killed or under attack.

Once the vertibird lands, that becomes permanent real estate for the Enclave as far as spawn points are concerned. Perfect example: Wheaton Armory. There are enclave spawns on both entrances to the compound. The way this happened was I wiped out a nearby enclave camp (the high tech ones with the crates that are supposed to be there later in the game) and that prompted them to send a bird to me. They landed and didn't notice me and ended up fighting the raiders instead - they mowed through them to the other side of the base, but since there were so many raiders, they managed to take out 2 or 3 of them, prompting another bird landing. You might notice this - huge battles you have where you take out 7-8 enclave actors, with the disablevertbirds thing not enabled, sometimes leads to even MORE landing at your position. Now, if I use the console command to 'kill' every NPC in the area, then wait 3 days for the respawn, the enclave patrols will be right back at Wheaton. Another example is all the enemies right outside Megaton's front gate - that is not a spawn point for any of the mods at all, yet there they are all the time even after you kill all of them.

You actually can play Fallout 3 beyond waters of life and level 20, using all 3 mods without ruining your game, PROVIDED THAT YOU disable vertibirds from the get go. My problem here was that I didn't do that until the vertibird landing points became spawns already. I came to this conclusion because I have been playing through my current save file anyways, and with the mbdisablevertibirds command, there are entire swaths of the wasteland where there's not much enclave, and I frequently get the message that a vertibird was blocked from landing because of the disable function. So your game isn't ruined or anything unless you waited too long to put that command in.

I hope more people take heed to this issue.

Your message is very enlightening. Now it makes sense why these guys are piling up and the spawn point becomes Enclave property even though the mod is cleared away.


I think i'll just Geck and RIP out the Enclave since they seem to currently have a high presence.

Edit the script as follows

---------------------------------------------

scn mbVertibirdPatrolScript

Begin gameMode

if mbDisableVertibirds == 0
; showMessage mbDisableVertibirdsMsg
disable
markfordelete
endif

Will remove the message AND disable the vertibirds.

-------------------------------------------------------

in the spawn script you migh consider something like this in this case substituting bandits for the Enclave
scn mbNPCSpawnScript

elseif GetInFaction EnclaveFaction == 1
; set rPatrol to mbLvlEnclaveRandom
set rPatrol to mbLvlBanditRandom

I've never used the GECK before, could you explain more in detail how to change the enclaves to some other actor type, or to literally remove their entire faction?


It would be one possible solution to this. I can't think of anything else that would work at this point.

>>I've never used the GECK before<<

Of course RUN the Geck and then open Marks mod. Look around a bit to see what files are there. xxxx* (apostrophe) is the ones he changed. If you open a file in FOMM TesSnip you will see ONLY the files changed, useful in this regard but not really an editing tool to change stuff like the GECK.

Then look for the file mbNPCSpawnScript (this is a script). There you might consider something like this in this case substituting bandits for the Enclave

scn mbNPCSpawnScript

elseif GetInFaction EnclaveFaction == 1
; set rPatrol to mbLvlEnclaveRandom spawns Enclave patrol but I commented it out
set rPatrol to mbLvlBanditRandom ; this is what will spawn instead. ; = means the line will not run in the script

What I've done is just edited a line to spawn bandits in place of the Enclave when an Enclave patrol is asked for, I could as easily put his mbLvWastelanders in there instead (less hostile I imagine) the apostrophe (commenting) prevents the line after it from running.

The GECK takes a bit of getting used to, but is very useful in either a tweak of something you don't like to creating entire mods on your own--the game within a game

For more information, open the GECK and go to the help files and they will give you step by step. You can skip parts you are not interested.

I open the GECK, go under 'file -> data' and then check both Fallout3.esm and mark's mod. Then it gives me a message saying 'you have not set an active file. Do you wish to continue?' I press yes and then it auto-checks all my DLCs and says "Multiple Master files selected for load. Load Operation Aborted."

I remember this problem happened before, that was why I never tinkered with it before this thread. Highlighting Fallout3.esm and clicking 'Set as active file' doesn't seem to do anything.

edit: Making them wastelanders is such a great idea, I never thought of that.

>>you have not set an active file. Do you wish to continue?' I . <<

Make sure marks mod IS the active file, click on it and you should see it toggle between "plug in" and a"ctive file" then click OK and it should load without the error.

Also, insure it is not masterupdated as the Geck cannot edit esms or master updated files (must say "plug in " then you can make it active)

UPDATE

If this is causing problems for you, what I can do is edit Marks file myself, (wastelanders you want) and upload it and let you know where to download it from. Give me a few days and I will report back here when it is done. I already have an edited file, but they are bandits, but they might still prove to be a problem.

I tried loading Mark's mod alone and got the same message. The reason is because mark's mod can't be the active file without Fallout3.esm and DLC .esm's loading with it.

>>without Fallout3.esm and DLC .esm's loading with it. <<

Yes, they will load with the mod because they are masters of that mod. This means marks mod is dependent of content in them

Insure you open the Geck first and then go to open the file. Also insure your Geck is updated (1.5), I think I read about early versions of the Geck could not have more than one master (esm) loading with the mod at the same time.

Once you get into modding, it will be a game within a game. Iv'e spent more time altering mods in the Geck (and its Morrowind equivalent) than playing the actual game. Some of the things about mods will irritate you and all they need is a quick fix and you will OWN the power to do it!!!

http://geck.gamesas.com/index.php/Main_Page

Check out the tutorial, though you may not wish to make a vault, the things it has you do gets you familair with the GECK and the updated GECK link is there too. I found parts of the GECK tutitoral useful this past weekend in learning how to add dialogue to the Vertibird pilot in Enclave Commander - no free ride(new update already uploaded) and get him to sell stuff via conversation, for example.

My current version is 1.5.0.19, still having the same problem with 'multiple masters' being loaded.