You just need an unbiased set of questions regarding whether people will find Steamworks DRM exclusivity (activation over Steam being required) enough reason for not buying the game. Maybe a question as to whether they think options would harm their purchasing in any way.

Make it as clinical as possible. If you could get Bethblog, DarkOne at the Nexus and the UESP wiki to promote it, you'd probably get as representative a reply as you possibly can get online.

Then you could officially present that information to Bethesda, because in the end it is their decision and I doubt they've made the final decision just yet.

I suspect I understand what you are getting at, though I'd love to hear you elaborate. Assuming you mean that: increasing networking is the unquestionable trend, and digitial distribution will become increasingly prevalent, while physical distribution will decline . . . sure, that may be correct (with some exceptions).

However, it is not 10 years from now right now. The simple fact is that, not everywhere on the globe has the excellent telecoms infrastructure of nations like South Korea, or certain patches of the U.S., Japan, and Western Europe. I haven't kept up on what is happening in China, but I would be surprised if even half of prospective Chinese customers have access to dialup, much less broadband. Most Chinese MMO players make use of internet game cafes IIRC.

The point being: a business model that presumes the future too soon is potentially going to be missing out on sales by presuming that a lot more folks have high fidelity digital access when in fact they don't. What might be the pattern in 10 years is not a sound basis to decide on an exlusive digitial distribution and online-activation/validation system for a game that will be released later this year.

I don't see why you would.

Thanks showler. Excellent suggestions I'll run the items by you first (if you don't mind), and maybe enlist your aid in contacting those folks you mention. I'll do it. I'd be happy to get feedback on it from anyone before it goes up. Probably by tomorrow evening, maybe Saturday I'll get a draft survey done.

I have nothing against games that use Steam....it is both good for the customers and developers.....the only people that dont like it are people that started PC gaming before the internet took over completely (aka before early 2000's). I didnt like Steam when i first started using it, but I've found it ot be a very useful tool when playing games now.

It allows companies to update thier games and make sure customers are up to date, provides another branch of distribution that costs significatly less to produce the game (if your into the downloading thing, Im not, prefer hardcopy) and has a DRM system that is semi-effective and mostly accepted by consumers.


Frankly, bethesda would be stupid not to use Steam, a online activation shouldnt be a problem for 95% of its PC customers, and they arent going to throw away all the benifits of using steam to accomadate the other 5%. And the only downsides to using steam really are the forced updating and online activation.

No matter what people say, if you are here following these threads you will end up getting a copy of Skyrims, if you love the series, a silly thing like Steam wont stop you buying it eventually....no matter what you say now. For example, this picture just proves my point:
http://www.ubercharged.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/1258035395841.jpg


But at this point we dont know what DRM they will use....though considering the current trebdm if gamesas was to make their own it too wold have some sort of online registration when installing.

Have a look at the polls linked in my signature. The short one I did "What if Skyrim Requires Steam?" with 424 respondents indicates that ~23% of respondents _will not buy it_ if it requires Steam, and another ~22% expressed a preference not to have to use Steam, though they are likely to buy it anyway.

In sum, your speculative reference to "5%" minority is not born out by that poll.

If we look at the pattern of responses to question 3 in the other poll by SteveDog "Skyrim, Steam, and You:" Item 3 "How would you like to see it implemented in Skyrim?"



In terms of preferences expressed by the 484 respondents to that poll, about 11% say they prefer it to be availalble only via Steamworks, about 16% say they prefer it to be available only via non Steamworks. The remaining ~73% say they would prefer Steam to be optional in one way or another, either by upgrading or by Non Steamworks versions sold everywhere else except through Steam.

These two polls with slightly differently phrased items indicate a pattern: a non-trival segment of respondents ranging from 40% to 73% say that they would prefer for Steamworks to be optional.

Taken together with the data in the shorter poll indicating that ~23% will not buy the game if it requires Steam, the data readily at hand suggest that a speculative dismissal of the "other 5%" may be highly in error.

Moreover, why do you imagine that they would have to



A Steamworks validated version of Mount&Blade Warband is available via Steam. A non Steamworks version of the same game is also available via Gamersgate store.

I personally bought the latter, and have enjoyed it a lot and not had to make any use of Steam or other online DRM. Other guys who prefer Steam evidently bought the Steam version of Warband, and are enjoying that form of distribution.

In sum, I do not believe Bethesda would have to "throw away the benefits of using Steam" to accomodate the 40 to 73% who would prefer to have other options.

Beth should make their own version of steam and call it Hot air.

I have no idea what Steam is but I ain't buying it... nor downloading it... hell, if I know nothing it'll do that I need done... why would I want it? How does it help me having something I have no idea what is and will only fill space on my computer...

What it does is make games that use Steamworks DRM run.

So if Skyrim is using Steamworks DRM, you either install it or don't play the game.

So, that's something it'll do that you need done. If you want to play the game.

All, of course, dependent on the decision Bethesda eventually makes and announces.

Pool result is dubious at best. Bethesda knows it's job and even got a game out. If requiring Steamworks to even run the game was such a HUGE hit on sales, they'd have spotted that already with Fallout New Vegas.

Truth is, a huge amount of buyers do not care so MUCH they won't even bother to click your meaningless pool and those are the vast majority of clients that will buy the game.

Its the old 10% rule.. only 10% read the boards.. of that only 10% ever post. Of those only 10% will click on the poll.. Most of those will be angry people as happy people and people who dont care wont click the poll most times.

sao all it shows is they have about 400 angry people... out of the millions who will buy the game thats rather good.

I have a feeling that if publishers found out that the DRM was hurting their sales more than they helped, they would've stopped using them.


And again. I'm sure there are people way more knowledgeable in ZeniMax in the gaming industry than you who knows what's best for Bethesda economically. I understand your wish to not have Steam, and that's fine, but if you're going to claim that it'll affect their sales and use that as an argument against Steam, you need to back that up.


A Forum Poll is a horrible measurement as I guess you know as well. So I don't understand why you present the information as valid in any real way?

I don't really care about either so if they released both Steam and non-Steam versions that'd probably be the best thing. I don't expect them to though and I won't blame them.

Here it is on Survey Monkey https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/KGQSLKP

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/KGQSLKP

Please distribute the link everywhere!

ADDIT*2: Note, the survey logs IP addresses, so it will be more difficult for a would-be 'saboteur' to bias results by responding multiple times.

If you see any typos or bad phrasology that you suggest changing, let me know asap. IIRC I can still edit it, though obviously I don't want to make drastic changes once it starts getting responses. Yep, the hyperlink doesn't even work for me now that I've responded to it once.

ADDIT: @ the most recent rebutters: Why exactly is a forum poll, horrible, meaningless or unrepresentative?

Yeah, I have serious doubts 40% of the people interested in buying TES V won't buy it if it's Steam Exclusive...
It's a rather small group of people not wanting to buy it if it is Steam Exclusive, and I think many votes that they won't buy it because they think it makes a difference, and that gamesas may change their tactics...

Well it is worth noting: in SteveDog's survey, in response to question 1 IIRC, only about 9 or 10% said they "would not buy it if it required Steam."

In my survey, ~23% said they would not buy it if it required Steam, and another ~21% said they would prefer if there were non-Steam options, but they might buy it anyway.

What I'm claiming is not that 40 to 70% of prospective customers might not buy it. The data in those two polls do not show that.

What I'm saying the data in those two polls suggest is that 40 to 70% of prospective customers would prefer not to be required to use Steam. Synthesizing the results from those two surveys, and assuming it generalizes to the market at large, one could argue that something like 8 to 23% of prospective customers are at risk of not buying it if it requires Steam. As noted, there are limitations to a forum poll, but now we have a Survey Monkey survey too. We can see in a few days how the survey monkey results compare. As long as that link to the Survey Monkey survey makes it around to lots of forums, and message boards

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/KGQSLKP

we should get a much bigger and presumably more representative sample. It certainly won't be the final word on the question, but at this stage, Bethesda is presumably faced with making decisions on these matters fairly soon, so I figure some data of a limited scope is better than none at all.

You've got an overlap in the second question:

I will buy Skyrim whether it requires Steam or not.
I would prefer to have a non-Steam option for authenticating and playing Skyrim (e.g., gamesas online store with a unique product CD key). But I might buy it if it requires Steam anyway.

The first indicates no preference at all, the second indicates a preference for having a non-steam version.

You'll end up splitting a lot of votes since both the first and second apply to people like me, but not perfectly.

I would prefer there be a non-Steam option, but I will buy regardless.

I would suggest something more like: I will only buy Skyrim if it is only available as a Steam-required version.
I would prefer to have a non-Steam option for authenticating and playing Skyrim (e.g., gamesas online store with a unique product CD key). But I might buy it if it requires Steam anyway.
I will not buy Skyrim if it requires Steam authentication.

The wording of the first one is weird, but it needs more differentiation from the second one. Something to indicate whether there are people who would only buy it if it was tied to Steam (though hopefully there wouldn't be). And more emphasis on the fact that you are only discussing activation and DRM, not methods of purchasing the game.

8-23% customers who won't buy it if it's Steam-Only? I think that is a little exaggeration, but we'll see.
I honestly think that economical, it's best for them to use Steam, as that lowers the amount of Pirated Copies. (more hassle to pirate it, and we all know pirates are some of the laziest people on planet earth...^^)

Hmmm. Interesting thoughts Showler. However, here is my take on it. First question divides respondents in half:
Interested in Buying for PC Yes
Interested in Buying for PC No (not relevant to survey, do not answer second question)

The three responses for question two divide those who said Yes into initially two clumps:
Are likely to buy (responses 1 and 2)
Are not likely to buy (response 3)

But also allows idenficiation of two other clumps
No preference against using Steam (response 1)
Prefer not to use Steam (responses 2 and 3)

"I will only buy Skyrim if it is only available as a Steam-required version" is presumably a lot more exclusive of a preference than "I will buy it whether it requires Steam or not," so I think including that explicitly would actually require a fourth response so that it would look like:
(1) I will only buy Skyrim if it is only available as a Steam-required version
(2) I will buy Skyrim whether it requires Steam or not.
(3) I would prefer to have a non-Steam option for authenticating and playing Skyrim (e.g., gamesas online store with a unique product CD key). But I might buy it if it requires Steam anyway.
(4) I will not buy it if it requires Steam.

It just doesn't seem sufficiently interesting or noteworthy to me to differentiate (1) and (2). The key thing is, they are going to buy it, and are not opposed to Steam. Knowing that some folks will only buy it if it is on Steam doesn't seem as salient to the main question, which is how many would prefer to have non-Steam options and how many say they would not buy it.

Do you guys think that biases it and I should change it to four responses?

is there evidence that it is a hassle for THEM while Steam sure can make it harder on some of US.

Yes, Steam does make it harder for them.
Steam makes it harder for the pirates, than it makes it harder for us to activate our game...

Steam doesn't make it much harder to activate the game really. When you put in your disc, steam opens and you install the game... Of course, you also need a Steam Account, and actually having Steam installed, but that is also no hassle.
I could repeat myself as to why Steam is a great software, but I won't, because people tend to get angry when others repeat themselves..

For me, the problem is that I prefer to use Steam. But I'd prefer for them to release a non-Steam version because I don't want other people to be unable to play.

Answer one guarantees that I will buy the game. Which is true.
Answer two indicates a preference that a non-Steam version be available. Which is true.

If I answer with one, which is most true, it will indicate to Bethesda that the choice to go Steam only is the right one. And that's not actually my preferred option.
If I answer with two, it indicates that my decision to buy is based on their making a non-Steam version. Which isn't actually true for me.

I would think you'd want the people who are perfectly happy with the idea of multiple versions to be able to vote for the choice with multiple versions.

You make excellent points Showler. The one issue from a research methodology perspective that addressing your point bring in is: complicated responses that involve multiple different contingencies.

Forced choice, or limited choice self-report items are a commonly used, and admittedly imperfect method to cope with such complications in a straightforward manner. More open-ended queries such as interviews, focus groups and the like tend to be much better for teasing apart the sorts of subtle differences in attitude or preference you refer to. There is a limit to how much nuance and texture you can meaningfullly capture with a survey, and short, simple surveys are almost universally better and easier to interpret than longer and more complex ones.

I think I'll see if I can adjust the language in response item two, so that instead of saying "maybe I'll buy it" it is "but I'll probably buy it anyway." That would seem to make you feel a bit less torn about responding with item 2?

ADDIT: Okay, I changed response two of question two to be:

it wil come out just on a cd so no. you don′t need to have internet
just gonna put in an awesome smiley bliviongate: bliviongate: :flamethrower:

If it requires Steam validation you will.

Hey guys, check out my sig again. I don't use Survey Monkey that much, and I figured out I can actually post a link to the responses so far. Another good reason to just keep it short and simple.

Please share that link far and wide! We've got sixteen respondents just in the past couple hours. It would be nice to get up around one thousand or so.

I've posted the link in my sig at all the gamer forums I frequent.