Steam worked with the Modders to make xxSE and other modding tools work for Oblivion and Fallout 3. It is not of questionable legality as it is a modding tool for the game and we all know that Bethesda likes people to mod their games. If there was any doubt about that, we would be closing all threads that talk about these tools in the Mods section like we do when mods that are illegal (usually content from other games is used on those) Whether or not we will need Script Extensions remains to be seen.

As some folks know, I am no fan of Steam. However I do not hate Steam either. It is a competent digital distribution tool for games and updates. As far as Anti Piracy goes, I abhor DRM, and Disk Checks bug me as I hate swapping disks to play different games. Steam at least is the least obtrusive DRM scheme that I have come across. I would say that it even gets the game started up faster as it takes so long for the Optical drives to wake up, spool up, read the disk, then let the game launch.

So, I will accept Steam if that is the path they follow, and I will accept a Disk check if that is the path that they follow.

Just want to mention, but for some reason my DLC would not work correctly unless i was connected to X Live on Oblivion. Id imagine that wont be the case for Skyrim though.

I really doubt it.

why is this topic still getting replies? xD a simple no will do, and maybe for a patch and maybe for some mods, see? thats all, thank you

It wasn't for some reason. GFWL stored the DLC in a different location from the normal game files and needed to be active to find them. Moving them was simple to do, though.

I bought Morrowind Goty, Oblivion and its expansions that were worthwhile and Daggerfall while it still had a price tag, I plan on Buying Skyrim, these games don't require Piracy, i didnt even know, as ignorant as that may be that these games were pirated i "figured" these are the type of games you buy and stick with. I hope no fast ones are pulled in regards to requiring a constant connection to the internet, what about Consoles not connected 24/7? I play on PC so im not all to iffy about the constant connection, my comp other than when its off is nearly always connected, but what about the Console users? in fact, are there any Games that require constant access to the internet on the console?

Only ones played online. Consoles have the strictest anti-piracy functions available in a gaming machine. Far more restrictive than can ever be done on a PC. They don't need online activation or similar DRM because DRM is built into their very structure.

That said, no one has seriously suggested that Skyrim would ever require an always-on internet connection. It's the activation/decryption/initial patch that can be troublesome for some people. And the worry that Steam would glitch and their "off-line" mode would cancel out requiring them to go on-line in order to go off-line.

First, Question: Why the Hell wouldn't you have internet on your computer for Skyrim???

Second, Answer to your question: Even if they "require" internet, I'm sure there will be a call-to-activate option for those without internet.

Dear lord I hope its not a mandatory steam game. (Although I use steam all the time...I hate being forced to use it)

First answer: Because they may not have internet, or fast internet in their house?

Second answer counterpoint: They don't for Fallout: New Vegas.

Answer to your question:



Fallout New Vegas requires Steam. I realize Steam has settings that ostensibly allow you to set it into "don't call home mode," but I don't use it so I don't know how well it works. I don't want to have to use it to find out that it doesn't work as well as it should. I hear too many guys saying it is a hassle and it doesn't work as well as it should. I don't buy games to be hassled; I buy games to have fun.

I especially don't buy games to be forced to be hassled. There are too many games that do not require such hassles to be buying ones that do.

Those are just part of the reasons that we should _all_ (yes, you Steamophiles too) be concerned about the prospect of Skyrim requiring Steam or any other internet based gamer monitoring system.

If Steam is only one of the available options for validation/activation/distribution (as opposed to the only option), you Steamophiles lose nothing. You can get it on Steam and enjoy your Steam. However, we Steamophobes either have to compromise our preferences/principles, or not play Skyrim.

According to the polls, there are as many as 20 to 40% of us on this site who belong in that "would prefer not to have to use Steam" group. Even if it was 4% instead of 40% alienating that many fans is not good for a game; it is not good for the publisher, the developer, the hobby, we gamers or our culture. We are all in this together, and we want to promote our shared interests so that Skyrim turns out to be an even bigger, longer lasting and wondrous cultural phenomenon than the preceding TES editions that we can all blissfully participate in for years to come.

Alienating 20 to 40% of us by forcing us to buy it and use it in a fashion we disapprove of is not getting off to a good start.

That is why this thread is still getting responses. We want a clear confirmation from Bethesda that either:
1. Steam will be only one option. DVD's bought from the Beth online store will use a simple serial key, or
2. Steam will be the only way to activate/validate the game.

Number (1) is smart. It doesn't alienate anyone. Number (2) is foolish, it alienates a chunk of us. I expect these sorts of threads will be getting a lot of action until it is clear one way or another.

the only reason a 'patch' would be that big is if it has textures, models or sound files. So unless they're missing from the game by accident.. I think you're safe.

New vegas had big patches which would have taken ages on a dialup (as well as tying up a phone line). Most of it was for quest fixing.

Steam is the bigger evil cause like some other persons here I don't have acces to the internet on my gaming pc!

they wont do this, the box will look way too awesome. and gamesas know it hehe

I don't understand what you're all complaining about... If steam is required to activate the game, that means you will need internet for a couple of minutes, then you can turn on Offline mod, and never ever turn it online again. (Except when updating Skyrim, in which internet connection would be required regardless of Steam-requirements.)

Everyone who is complaining here seems to have an internet connection.. How else would you be able to post here at all..?

fixed. :whistling:
But really the last one was 15 mb according to neoseeker, that's small by todays standards and would have still takena a fair while on dialup. How long do you consider 'ages'. :biggrin:

Actually, I think Steam has to verify once every two weeks or so, or offline mode will stop working. I wouldn't know, though, since my Steam is only ever disconnected when the servers are down for maintenance.

As for the people saying that Skyrim would lose sales by using Steamworks, you really ought to check out the Steam statistics. During its daily peaks it has 3 million users online, so you can assume that the total number of users who use it on a daily basis is significantly higher. While I don't know how many of those users actually use the store; some statistics now indicate that digital distribution sales has surpassed traditional retail sales on the PC gaming market.

Personally, I never buy a disk if I can get it through digital distribution. Both because of reliance, sustainability and the fact that more money goes to the developer.

Aside from a few short interruptions, such as moving, I've had internet access in one form or another since 1994 and (cable) broadband since 1999. I realize not everyone is that lucky, and there are still places in the rural United States who have fewer or worse internet access options than some 3rd world countries. Still, there are workarounds if you need temporary access to download patches or activate a game.

There was one brief period where I was without internet for a month, and I wanted to play a Steam game that I hadn't installed. So what did I do? I didn't sit in the corner and cry about Steam activation, for one thing. No, I disconnected all the cables from my computer, picked it up, and brought it to a friend's house who DID have internet. Once there, I connected to his network, downloaded the game, and activated it. He didn't mind, I got to have a couple beers with my friend while it downloaded, and I got my game installed and activated.

I suppose there are some people who aren't big and strong like a Nord, so moving a desktop computer might be a bit of a hassle. But the consoles are light and gaming laptops are even lighter.

There might even be some who don't have friends, or don't have friends with internet. Not sure what I could suggest for that, other than maybe making friends? :huh:

Plenty of places have free wifi, though I'll admit hauling a gaming rig or console in there might get a few stares.

Then there's always cell phone tethering, for activation if not downloading. And I've never tried that with a console. But if you don't have internet for cost reasons then you probably don't have a cell phone either, or at least one that supports tethering, so that point is moot I suppose.

Lastly, I've run into a few people who didn't have internet access on a given computer or console simply because it wasn't connected to the network. That's no excuse at all, wifi adapters are dirt cheap, except in the case of the 360. I lived in an apartment for a year where I had a 50' network cable dangling from the back of my 360 and running all the way across the apartment.

I hate saying this, but they will cater to the majority. The majority have fast internet connections with their system of choice hooked up to an internet connection. I'm sorry if you don't have this, but it's the truth.

We have to keep moving along, not everyone will be up to date all the time. I'm a poor-as-[censored] uni student, I have an ADSL connection and a PC to play on. Work harder if you can't afford it, I don't work all that hard and come up with the money to have these things.

I can't freaking stand Steam.

First of all, it just never works for me. When I tried to install New Vegas, it stalled three times in a row; it kept on saying the Steam servers are unavailable. I tried later and went away for a few minutes and came back, it was trying to download the whole freaking howevermanyGB game despite the fact I was using a disc! For goodness' sake, I don't have that kind of bandwidth. Half an hour later after trying all sorts of things it finally worked. Freaking HATE IT.

And more than that, it just doesn't feel right. If I'm paying ACTUAL money, I want an ACTUAL product which will always work in and of itself regardless of the state of somebody else's servers. If I get a new computer years later and want to play it again, it's a complete gamble that Steam is still running and in the same format. When you're buying a "product" that requires remote activation, it doesn't feel complete, it doesn't feel whole, and it doesn't feel the least bit satisfying. You don't have a nice shelf full of games, you have a shelf full of activation codes dependent upon servers which are (for me) on the other side of the planet. Screw that nonsense. It's just so empty, so hollow. If I can't buy a COPY OF THE GAME, they aren't getting my money.

A lot of people love the feel of buying a nice hardcover book. Do you think they'd appreciate it if someday they tried to open it again, and it suddenly said servers unavailable? And all the pages were blank? That's how I feel about games, especially fancy Collector's Editions. The whole cloud computing thing is all very well and good, but there are some things I want to keep real, tangible, and for the purposes of an average human life, permanent. Just how I feel.

I think someone with some time and willingness to expend some effort should put up a survey at a proper survey site. Then talk to DarkOne and the administrators as UESP about posting a message regarding the survey. And hit some fan sites and some generic gaming sites to post links to the survey. Even ask Beth if they'd mention it in the BethBlog.

Doing your best to get a proper survey with proper question and as wide a cross-section of PC gamers as possible would give you the best information to present to Beth for their consideration.

They can't work from simple polls on a dedicated fan site like the forums.

@ guys saying various versions of "get over it" and "there are workarounds, etc.," and "they'll cater to the majority," you are missing the point(s).

Dealing with the online part is a hassle for some. PERIOD. Yes, I'm sure even folks in New Zealand or rural sub-Saharan Africa, or rural South America can figure out ways to get _around_ the required online part. But why should they have to?

There are games that are sold with Steam as ONE OPTION (e.g., Mount&Blade Warband, and others). Those games allow both types of consumers to have it their way. It doesn't matter if the "majority" of prospective buyers will use Steam or prefer it to be available via Steam, it is foolish business practice to needlessly hassle and alienate that minority which will not use Steam else would not prefer to use Steam. In short, there are likely to be both short-term and long-term economic costs to making a game Steam exclusive, which might be totally mitigated by making it Steam optional.

While Valve and the general tenor in the industry might have convinced publishers like Beth that the benefits (e.g., in reducing piracy) by going exclusive will outweigh those costs, I'm not convinced. Moreover, I would point out again, if there is a verison of the game for sale that does not require Steam or any other online activation/validation process (such as Mount&Blade Warband which came out about a year ago) those of you who advocate Steam lose nothing. You will be able to get your game on Steam just the same as if Steam is the only form of distribution. We who do now want to use Steam gain by being able to play the game. We really don't need to be opposed to one another on this, and I'm surprised at how the discussions always seem to lean in that direction Steamophiles vs. Steamophobes. The examples of Steam optional games show that, we can all have it in our preferred way.

@showler: I'm a Uni researcher, and I have a Survey Monkey account. Is that what you had in mind? What items do you think the survey should include?

Whoops double post . . . site seems a bit weirdish today?

In 10 years you'll be wondering why we even had this discussion.