I was wandering around the editor and after looking at the Black Door to the Sanctuary in detail, I started wondering, is that Mehrunes Razor that the person, presumably the Night Mother, is holding? http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s221/silverhawk100/NightMother.jpg

Could be,I know at one time the DB had the Razor and it ended up in alot of fighting among themselves i believe.

Correct, but before the Mehrunes' Razor plugin was ever released that dagger was available. It shipped with the game as a "Ceremonial Dagger."

Ah, I've been meaning to bring this door thing up, although i never really thought that was the Razor, because it never seamed to have such a huge role in the DB.

Oh, it had a huge role within the DB, just not in the Oblivion quests.

I understand, just never seemed like it was something they would put up there with the nightmother and her children. Seems like it doesn't fit.

So thats what the Ceremonial Dagger was for... I just thought it looked cool.

Ok, let's see.
We have the Nightmother, which is holding a child and pointing a knife at the other 4 childern.
Well, the childern are obviously the Black Hand. The kid she's holding is the Listener, and the other kids are the Speakers.

And I honestly have no idea what that means.

Maybe Mehrunes Razor was somehow used to control the Black Hand? Or maybe these kids are not the black hand, maybe they are ordinary people?

I think it is something with those childs skelets in Night Mothers crypt. Those children on the door are the Dark Brotherhood "her children". But I still don't get why in her crypt are those skelets

Yep. They just wanted to think you were paying for a new weapon.

The children theme comes up again in the Night Mother's statue in Bravil with them at her feet, clinging on to her dress. Having just registered those two images (the statue and the ones at her tomb), I assumed that it was showing how ordinary things have a sinister underbelly to it.

Oh, and thanks for affirming my thoughts.

I don't believe it was Mehrunes' Razor. Could we see a picture of the dagger with which to compare the two?

Or maybe you're just reading too much into it.

http://tes.ag.ru/oblivion/quests/img/Mehrunes.jpg

??? and ???

urls don't work for me. ???

It was nto actually "in the game", it was just a model that was there but was not used.

The bottle that is used in SI in some point (to gather some air probably, but i don't remember well, anyways it was green, spiky bottle) also was in vanilla OB, it just wasn't used anywhere,

Mehrunes Razor was not in the game as well, you could not acquire it without cheating, and there were no enchantments on it,




On topic:

It looks like Razor. As someone said before me - MR was important for DB in the past (and it was not in Oblivion), and since the sanctuary ain't new it is possible it is the dagger in the picture on the door.

Why is she pointing it at those people??? I am not sure. They don't have to be black hand. They may be the victims who are to be slain in the name of Sithis, and the child in woman's arms is symbolic depiction of DB members who are under Night Mother's protection

All that we can currently conclude is that the picture on the door looks like the Razor, and appearing similar doesn't prove that it is, in fact, the Razor.

However, if we were to continue on with that line of logic, then we also cannot conlcude that the woman in the picture is, in fact, the Night Mother, only that she looks...wait a minute...we don't even know what the Night Mother looks like.

Therefore, to assume that the woman is the Night Mother based on assumed appearances and NOT conclude that the dagger is the Razor when we know what it looks like is a selective application of logic.


___TWM of J

We are basing out theory that this is Night Mother on the fact that theese are doors to DB sanctuary. Logic is with us

spoiler:



I think it's safe to assume that the woman in the picture is the Night Mother. Remember all those "family" references that Lucien Lachance made in his little intro speech?
I remember him saying something about their "dark family," the Night Mother being an "unholy matron", and something about the DB being born from the Night Mothers' womb. And c'mon, I mean, her NAME is the Night Mother.

So who else would the woman in the door be besides the Night Mother? She's holding a child and the other children are reaching out to her. The child she is holding is probably the Listener, who she obviously favors most, and the other children are members of either the Black Hand or lower-ranking members of the Dark Brotherhood.

I don't think there's much to it as far as meaning. It just symbolizes that the Dark Brotherhood was born from the Night Mother, as Lucien Lachance said in the game.

edit: As for Mehrune's Razor being in the picture, it does look a lot like it. Considering that the Razor has a lot to do with the DB's history, and is a very suitable dagger for their guild. It might be there to symbolize the Night Mother's power or something.

It's only a model.

It's the generic ghost model for a old, female breton.

It is my opinion that the picture on the wall represents the Night Mother holding Mehrunes' Razor. To add weight to this testimony, I would quote from http://til.gamingsource.net/mwbooks/tamrieliclore.shtml:


What was this vicious internal power struggle of which the book speaks? Let's remember that it was a vicious internal power struggle that separated the Dark Brotherhood from the original Morrowindian Morag Tong.

Perhaps this struggle was over whether to continue the worship of Mephala or submit to the new ALMSIVI Temple doctrine of accepting Mephala as an "Anticipation" as http://til.gamingsource.net/obbooks/fire_darkness.shtml suggest?

If so, and the Morag Tong eschewed Mephala in favor of Vivec, would be that hard to believe that one of the Daedric Princes that the Tribunal usurped (Mephala) would use an artifact from yet another Daedric Prince whose worship carried a death sentence (Mehrunes Dagon)?

Yeah, I could see Mephala with the Razor. Payback's a b***c, ain't it?

Shh.

.