Something I would like to see gone for good is the quest marker. I mean, helps gameplay but it dumbs the game down. Imagine a quest objective far away, you asking for directions in the local tavern. Trading for an old map with an X... that would make the world a LOT more believable, not walking/riding blindly towards the marker.

There is a hudless mode. So for all intents and purposes it is gone if you so choose.

Ha ha well as ive posted ive yet to play Fable III but thats great. I think certain people are put off by what they feel to be 'twee' or airy fairy concepts which is a pity. I am constantly reassured by the fact that Bethesda have had 6 years to develop this game and undoubtedly have the biggest fanbase theyve ever had which means more fan suggestions and more user mods to study,learn from and implement.

I prefer this kind of "extreme ridiculousness" to be part of specific quests rather than part of normal gameplay. We had some in both Morrowind and Oblivion (and Fallout) and they felt fresh and very original. Genius even. Many prefer the alien like world in Morrowind while some (incl myself) prefer the more natural looking world in Oblivion. I believe some of the "weirdness" of Morrowind may come back in Skyrim, but I hope (it doesn't appear to) it's not in full strength, as normal weapons was pretty much about the only thing you could familiarize yourself with. Everything else was just... Weird... I prefer normal

why??

didn't you like the boring, static, creative-less oblivion landscape ??!!

but from the screen shot I saw, you already got your wish

Yes, I forgot about that one! Exactly what I'm on about

I don't really get this complaint.

Morrowind captured and held me because the landscape and world was so Alien.
Oblivion held onto me because it was the embodiment of countless fantasy novels that I love to read. That is to say, Oblivion gave me a visible, interactive form of those.
Skyrim looks to reel me in from a world that is rough and rugged. A place where if you are not careful you could lose your footing and die. Much the same feeling Bloodmoon gave.

I was being sarcastic about the lack of "fantastical landscapes" in oblivion and complimenting Skyrim for adding this back

TLDR,

also mods.
And i think the game itself will throw some interesting stuff at us.

Good year for RPG's skrym, the witcher 2, good stuff.

Yes, but sometimes the quest directions could prove insufficient. :confused:

Awesome post. I agree, this is something TES series and its fans could benefit greatly from.

GREAT POST ! finally an articulate individual has been able to make the point ive been trying to make for years. hacking and slashing your way through a dungeon
gets old and while i played oblivion and morrowind to death i really don't think that if the new game is more of the same that i will be buying it. i want to be challenged mentally and wowed imaginatively. the graphics don't need to be amazingly elaborate. just get good quest writers and give them more free range to be imaginative. BETHESDA ! if your reading this, offer sharkspine a job!

Oh, my whacking finger has been tested.

For Oblivion I found quite a number of very good and interesting quests. Caught in the Hunt, The Hist, A Brush with Death just to name a few. I was irritated at times due to the lack of diplomatic solutions being offered. Morrowind too had some very enjoyable quests. Both had their fair share of fetch it quests.

Actually really giving it some thought, Oblivion quests were often more involved and more interesting to me.

But....each to his own.

I can't wait to find my favorites in Skyrim. The element of the unknown always makes them more awesome.

The quests aren't the issue it's making a fantastic world that's still believable to new players and to everyone here who knows the lore, everything should look intriguing and inventive but it always has to make sense otherwise we're just playing a drug trip. I'm hoping Skyrim will be a cross between Beowulf and Berserk.

It's hard to imagine a world more fantastic than "The Shivering Isles" for me. I ask for little more. I found it to be an over the top wonderful place.

Of course, I want lore and OB was lore weak.

Well I think the experience they want us to give with TES is that we play on a legendary world,not a fairy tail.
You see legends are somewhat believeable because they come from reallity.Legends are actually real stories over-exaggerated to the point where things seem magical.
That's different from saying "O.K. we are in a fairy tail so it doesn't have to be believeable that these could ever happen".

But I'll say that I liked your ideas about solving puzzles or doing some more extraordinare things.
I wish there where Zelda like puzzles in TES. :liplick:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gejmHZkRxpM&feature=related

regarding Todd's comments - i would really like to see a bizarre, over-the-top JRPG setting executed in the style of a Bethesda game. a big open world free to explore and do whatever, but with crazy flying steampunk cities and crazy colorful clothes and really big hats and weapons. somewhere between FF12 and Touhou, but on a big floating island about the size of Vvardenfell, and it's really all just one huge city and the surrounding landscape.

Morrowind did wonder good - there aren't nearly enough giant bugs or crab-mansions rising to defend a city in fantasy today. Oblivion tried too hard to be Forest Simulator 2006 and didn't try hard enough to do the world it's set in the justice it deserves. hell i'd've been happier if Oblivion had been more Daggerfall-esque high fantasy with dragonlings and centaurs and [censored], because all Oblivion has is wolves and boars and that's really all. Shivering Isles, on the other hand, was 100% incredible.

i'd like puzzles, too. not enough puzzles in games anymore. Call of Pripyat had a cool puzzle that was really pretty simple and could just as easily have not been there, but the fact that it was and it was really simple but still made you stop and think about something other than killing for a minute was super duper neato.

I think there are some very valid points to this post for sure. I wouldnt want it too crazy ALL the time but then I dont think the OP did either. The drudgery of some of the dungeons and quests in Obliv was numbing to the point where I thought am i actually having fun now? Seriously. I love levelling up, I love great stories and characters but there is a serious serious disregard for quirky dungeon/level design in TES. People have mentioned S.I as an example of Beths craziness but that too didnt seem all that different. Sure there were quirky characters and some mad things to do but as far as physical dungeons are concerned, not many differentitate from the standard set in vanilla Obliv.

Ill forget about how realistic the branches of trees sway in the wind as ill have innovative quests to do..on the other hand...mindnumbing quests= 'ooh look at how great the trees sway!'

I also believe dialogue with a little more wit would be a bonus and more emotional acting too. Its been in dev for a while now so hopefully we could get that

Interesting comments here and differences of opinion on what peeps want from TES. Personally i would like to see more fantastical adventures and set pieces. It is funny how games such as Shadow of the colossus,ico,okami(despite their linearity compared to tes) have more of this epic sensibilities in them than TES does. Quality rather than quantity without losing the open world is a good thing. Also a more deadly approach to quests would be cool indeed. I jus didnt feel to threatned or tested when playing oblivion. Sure i got battered in fights but that was it.

I would LOVE to see a return to more 'what the hell do i do now' scenarios. I know i can turn off hud byt thats purely for getting me from point a to point b. an idea would be a quest where you are stripped of your gear and have to rely on your natural abilities to get you through and solve uber cool puzzles and when did you actually have to leave a dungeon because you were stumped by a puzzle or a curious bit of level design?

I read in a magazine once that a few of the veteran hippified beth devs / writers (whod grew up playing d&d and the like) left as they thought the series was getting TOO fighty/actiony and losing the true sense of adventure

food for thought guys & gals

indeed those were some nice quests.

I have seen this comment made many times before about how people loved Morrowind due to the more mystical setting as opposed to Oblivions more realistic setting and I need to throw in my two cents here. This isn't something Bethesda tried to do, they didnt try to make Oblivion more "realistic". They made Morrowind and Oblivion to fit the setting in which the games occured in. Morrowind was set in Morrowind, a province which is predominantly dark elfs. So the game, its towns, culture, history, etc. was built around an elf culture thus making it more surreal. Oblivion was set in Cyrodill, a province predominantly Imperials(humans) so they built it around human culture and bening humans ourselves it seems more "realistic". Thats why in Oblivion you dont see a town with houses built into the trees because civialized humans wouldn't build a town in the trees. I'm not saying that you shouldn't like one over the other based on your personal taste, im just sayin keep in mind they were just building the games around the provinces in which they were placed.

As for Skyrim, it is predominatly nords, thus you will see alot of human influence over the culture, architecture, economics etc. with elfish influence (mainly in the history/ruins) seeing as they occupied the land before the nordic migration.

Yeah, I liked the idea of the quest "A Brush With Death" too.
Didn't enjoyed it completely because of the bug at the end of the quest that kept me inside the Painted-world.

I agree with a certain amount of what the OP said. There are 2 important aspects that will determine whether I love Skyrim or not.
1. The ability to feel lost within a new world. I still haven't played morrowind yet (GASP, though I own it), but I loved just traversing the forests of Oblivion, meandering my way across the countryside and discovering its treasures.

2. Interesting Quests and experiences within this world. This second point is more in line with the OP. Oblivion gave me tastes and whet my tongue, but I really hope it improves from there. "A brush with Death" like quests should be more common. What is great about that type of quest is that it does not ruin immersion, but it feels new and exciting. Another quest probably already mentioned forced me into the dream of a NPC. These type of quests are believable and fantastical without sacrificing either. Another quest that really stuck out to me was based off the short story, "the most dangerous game", where I was lured to a remote Island and enslaved as a gladitorial conquest for high-paying thrill-seekers. That is what I want from the elder scrolls. Though the execution of this last quest could have used work, these are the moments that stand out for me. Not only do they make me think, they promote an active enjoyment instead of passive skill grinding.

My first piece of advice to the Dev's is to treat each quest like it is a short story. The quest should have an engaging plot line or introduce some unique aspect to the game.
My second piece of advice relates to non-quest gameplay and implicit story-telling. When I walk into a cave/dungeon/burial ground, I love when I am given subtle clues as to its meaning within the world. I remember stumbling upon a battle between a group of battle mages and goblins. After clearing the area, I noticed that the room was the home of the goblins, who had placed a throne in a corner, supposedly to honour their leader. Surrounding the throne were trappings of his splendour. Feeling slightly arrogant in my victory, I sat down in the throne, silently proclaiming my superiority over their settlement. Then, to my horror, a spiked stone came hurling down from the ceiling, dealing me a blow that would fell any normal foe. The throne was set as a trap, enticing my arrogant side, and subsequently punishing me for it. This was not a quest, but gave me more satisfaction that clearing 5 stereotypical dungeons. Try to give each dungeon a story and meaning within the world, as it does wonders. Foreshadowing coming battles through a messy diary entry of an ill-fated looter fulfills much the same purpose.

example: I walk into the dimly lit cave and note a faint trail of blood leading away from a worn piece of parchment. The page details the looter's discovery of a massive trove of treasure through a hidden passage, which he would have looted, save for the fact that he hadn't the manpower to take its contents. The entry finishes with the musings of the looter, who wonders who could possibly have amassed this degree of wealth.

Working my way through this cave offers a profoundly different experience than the majority of Oblivion's dungeons. Without any scripted voice acting or need for heavy labour on the part of the developers, the player now has a context from which he/she can explore this dungeon. It allows the player's imagination to run wild imagining what possible inhabitants could have obtained this treasure, and also allows the developers to hide the loot in a more complex location. This makes the resulting discovery all the more enjoyable and memorable.

wall of text, but I hope it gives some sort of ideal to work towards...

Daedric Quests were more interesting than the average quests in Oblivion.
I especially liked Sheogorath's quest.