I've read with great interest the reports and press releases regarding the development of the technology that will be powering Skyrim. The brand new engine, better graphics, improved Radiant A.I, more realistic character animation and so forth. All of this is obviously important and must be surely ('don't call me Shirley') welcome by everyone who plays and enjoys TES.

I've played tabletop RPG's since I was 9 (I am now a venerable 28 year old ) and have enjoyed TES since Daggerfall's original release. What I feel has been missing from TES and in particular Oblivion was a sense of playing somewhere truly fantastical and participating in high adventure. There have been some wonderful quests in TES over the years, some funny, some touching and even a few have been mildly strange but on the whole they almost feel to real and grounded. I appreciated the 'A Brush With Death' quest in Oblivion because the idea was quirky and (for the series) original. It sought to take us out of our comfort zone.

But we need more. Why aren't we getting shrunk to the size of a bluebottle and having to battle sentient chess pieces? Why aren't we competitively racing on aqueous creatures in an arena in the middle of the ocean as part of a sea dwelling tribes annual festival? Why are we not having to fend off the mind probe of an enemy wizard by replaying a race specific childhood dream that locks him out and masks our characters true intentions?

Also where are the puzzles/riddles/traps? They don't have to be purely Havok based physics puzzles.Why don't we have to align the totems in the right way before the chamber floods using clues gleaned from a parchment found in a dead adventurers pack? Yes an Argonian has got the upper hand in that particular situation and we can load it up when we die anyway but whats important is it infuses the game with an illusion of risk and lethality. We are seriously lacking in even the basic RPG/Adventure game staples such as wall darts,fire pits and rolling balls. I realise these are cliche and reek of Tomb Raider but they are also the fundamentals of a good, basic dungeon crawl and theyre not there! When an epic quest is complete you should feel like your reflexes and mind have been tested as well as your whacking finger.

I for one would relish the chance to use my characters fabulous acrobatic skill to leap from platforms being held up by the breath of a colossal face that has erupted from the ground. And if that crude example of a fantastical situation sounds a bit Mario Galaxy then good. Because unfortunately those humble little platforming Mario games, have something that TES, despite its fantasy aspirations, is sorely lacking.

They have a sense of wonder.

:foodndrink:

Yep, I'm for the other-wordliness of games. Use imagination in creating the game since by actually playing a cRPG, our imagination is limited by visual input and storylines, unlike the flexibility and spontanaity found in pnp.

I'd write more, but need to get going.

Cheers

Excellent post, and I couldn't agree more.

This true sense of wonder and fairytale-like adventure is lost now more through fear of being unoriginal or childish, even though it's never been easier to implement in visual and spectacular ways. You see the attitude a lot even in game forums - dragon riding is lame and inappropriate, it was in some film; oh, vampires aren't cool any more, a teen book series made them unfashionable among the hardcoe; characters can't wear that, it's unrealistic.

And I think that's really sad. I can't say whether or not Bethesda will work this kind of thing back into the Elder Scrolls series or not, but in some ways I feel the series does, and can capture a certain wonder - there are certainly quirky and outlandish things in the lore, and things like the Shivering Isles shows that they aren't afraid to do something vibrant and fantastical. I miss the kinds of things that made games like Ocarina of Time so memorable.

I loved morrowind, it was a really strange and mystical world. Unique and strange creatures, daedric shrines, Dwemer ruins with the creepy and lonely mechanical sound in them, like ancient technology singing long after their makers has perish. Oblivion I didn't like att all, it had some moments but thats about it, but I like the more "realistic" approach bethesda aims after this time. Because I think the perfect line goes between being an unique fantasy world, but also have some roots and connections to real mythology and ancient culture. They get allot of inspirasjon from mythology and history, but they make it their own unique thing. and I think bethesda's world is somewhat "realistic" it feels real, but in its own way. That said I do hope they add some really high class fantasy quests and creatures from time to time, but I like the line between too much and to realistic

:blink: :yucky:

Jack,

I agree with you completely with regard to the Dwemer ruins and also The Clockwork City of Sotha Sil. These were among the stand out adventures for me in Morrowind due to their sense of scale and their crepuscular atmospheres. I also agree that the games should 'feel' more real and immersive. This is why i enjoy TES more than most CRPG's (bar Planescape) but that that strive for realism doesnt have an adverse influence on the nature of the quests themselves. My thoughts are whirring with the possibilitiesa new engine could bring to life for us and I'm just hoping Bethesda can muster all of their imaginative powers to make this next installment a genuinely classic fantasy RPG

The graphics are the first thing people will see of the game and we've just got some glimpses, so that's what is on everyone's mind, but I'm sure all of us would like some interesting puzzles and unusual fantastic twists.

Couldn't agree more. Battling chess pieces, water racing with otherwordly creatures, childhood flashbacks as defense... Sounds like something out of a terrible low-budget, family targeted SyFy channel flick.

I do agree with Sharkspine though, it'd be nice with some of the "alienlike" atmosphere from Morrowind, or something similar. I never could get through more than 20 minutes of playing Morrowind, it was just not for me, but I rather thought what I saw of the atmosphere and settings of the game was beautiful.

Exactly...

Todd Howard already answered that when comparing western RPG's to JRPG's - they want to make a game that gives off the impression that the story in it is something that could have happened or even did happen. Guess who gets a bigger vote: Todd or the couple of hundred fans on the forums? :shakehead:

We get to climb 7000 steps as I giant lizard/cat/elf/ect to learn how to battle dragons that speak time altering magic in a world covered in ruined containing anchoent robots and powerful spirts, and that's only the basics, I think plenty of fantastical things are planed, shiverlsles was the last main price of TES to be made, thumbs up there.

On a personnnal note the mire fantastical things I'd like to c just revolve around iteams, I would like less generic loot, how ever powerful and more random things like statuests charms trinkets and other unusual artifacts.

I have been saying this stuff for a long time now. But you just said it way better than I ever have. :icecream:

Fighting cheese? Getting probed? No thank you.

I apologize if I seemed rude here. It's just that I REALLY wouldn't want any of those things in game. One of the few things in Dragon Age I couldn't stand, was the part where you entered the dream-fade and had to play as a mouse and golem, and god knows what. It was dreadful. Thankfully someone modded it out :goodjob: :biggrin:

I also really enjoyed the quest, a brush with death, and in general I was really pleased with Oblivion having traps and stuff, more of that would be wonderful

Well thats a concern. Why would any of us want to play a fantasy RPG that had a storyline that COULD have happened? I'm not a particular fan of JRPG's but that doesnt mean I want the more 'westernised' RPG's to be devoid of abstract ideas and storylines. We need more imagination in our games more than we ever have and TES has such a great immersive engine to throw you into the mix. I mentioned Planescape previously, now imagine some of that games ideas and storyline with TES engine!

Look on the bright side: it leaves modders with lots of room to be imaginative :nerd:

Sharkspine makes some excellent points. It's the quests that are leftfield and deliberately off-kilter that you remember the most, such as 'A Brush with Death'. Beth need to build on this, by continually thinking outside-of-the-box. The alternative is that we're left stuck doing errand quests for factions in indentikit dungeons - you really want to got through all that again?

I would seriously rather have 30-50 lovingly crafted standalone dungeons/quests alongside the main storyline and the Guild quests than 200 phoned in efforts or...horror upon horrors..randomly generated dungeons!

I'd like to believe that Todd was referring to the believability of the major events and for these events to have a logical effect to the world and history. You know a fully realized and self aware world. A "plausible impossibility" as Aristotle would say.

I'd really like to see more quests like "A Brush with Death", or - what immediately came to my mind - "Through a nightmare, darkly". That quest was everything that you mentioned - puzzles, traps, and it really took you out of your comfort zone and habits as a player by taking away all your equipment and spells (and you couldn't rely on the quest compass and fast travel). Plus, the atmosphere in the dream world was one of the few really creepy moments in the whole game.

I hope so. An 'implausible possibleness' is fine by me

I really like your ideas, Sharkspine. I agree on all of them, and actually, your "shrink to the size of a marble" idea reminded me of my favorite quest in Fable III, and it was my favorite because it stood out so much (you basically shrink to the size of a marble and partake in a tabletop role-playing game).

Ha ha really? I wasn't going to bother with Fable III but i might check that out! Very cool quote BTW. Seven Pillars of Wisdom is in my top 10 books (and I only live down the road from his place!)

Something I find interesting, most of what you said is in Fable 3, which is an amazing game imo.

Along with your comment on "A Brush With Death"(a spectacular quest) there was also another "Vaermina's Task" that stuck out to me.
I would love to see more things like this. I am also very interested in the Daedric prince quests, should they be included in Skyrim.