But would Synths be dangerous technology? Synths are stronger, faster, immune to radiation, and quicker to build a working model compare to humans so they seem like the perfect people to clean up the wasteland. Destroying thousands of Synths is more likely to cause more problems from the remaining Synths since the Brotherhood just slaughtered their people. Maxson seemed like a religious fanatic when it came to Synths rather than just getting rid of dangerous technology.

Or not put these types of tools in charge of our weapons. Putting them in charge of a farm or probe heading towards Alpha Centauri won't cause any significant problems. Or better yet, Skynet for President 2052. An AI would certainly not do any worse than any other politician we have had.

Until the tools decide they don't want to work on the farm or clean up the wasteland, then decide to wipe you out when you try to figure out why they're not working as intended.

Graygarden had AI working on a farm for centuries and they don't seem to mind. Although, most of them are dumb Mr. Handys while the Supervisors seem to be as intelligent as Codsworth and Curie.

Those are not the same as Gen-3 Synths. They are programmed personalities that lack consciousness.

Its the Gen-3 Synths (who are infiltrating secretly) that draw BOS ire not Synths in general, there is no real difference between a Gen-1&2 Synth and the countless robots. Even the Railroad doesn't regard Gen 1&2 as people (except maybe for Valentine who seems to be a prototype for the future Gen-3s) so it reality we are only talking about the Gen-3s.

As to the Gen-3s the reprogrammed ones don't know they are Synths, the infiltrators will probably continue in the role until discovered (due to not ageing, if nothing else) and the Institute Coursers will continue to attack everybody as they normally do.

Synths themselves are not a dangerous technology (they are simply another type of robot), a self aware doppelganger that can infiltrate you home and family and kill you whenever it gets the nod is a dangerous technology. Its literally a nightmare scenario, self aware machines with teleport technology who are replacing human (who are murdered or experimented on) to infiltrate the human communities.

Yes that one of my questions for the those saving the Institute as a pro-Synth ideal, how do you deal with the Gen-3 Synths once you 'free' them, the work still needs doing are you simply planning to create a second tier of Citizen, below the Scientist and above the Gen 1&2 or resettle them in Synth community above ground or are you going for the Utopia of a top tier of Scientist and Gen-3 Synth with a worker class of Gen 1&2s.

It was the Gen-3 Synths that I was referring to since Gen-1 and Gen-2 Synths aren't intelligent enough to do anything else, but follow orders. Dangerous technology doesn't exist only dangerous people. Look at nuclear power, sure it can destroy cities, but it can also power people's homes. Synths are the same way. Some human decided to replace certain individuals with Synths. Each of the technologies involved can be used for good. Synths can help clean up the Glowing Sea among other things. Memory Extraction can be used to help recover suppressed memories, remove traumatic memories, and recover memories in an amnesiac. Teleportation can make make travel in the Commonwealth much easier. Instead of transporting a caravan from one location to another and possibly die from Mole Rats, just teleport the cargo to its destination.

Besides the Brotherhood having an army of Synths like Paladin Danse would help recover "dangerous" technology from dangerous areas and remove the Super Mutant threat without risking human lives. It is Maxson's religious fanaticism that made him not see the big picture.

Actually, the Railroad has internal debates over what other machines should have personhood, a topic Deacon advises the PC not to bring up.

All very interesting, but how was this to come about.....is the Brotherhood supposed to destroy every Gen-1&2 and Gen-3 Courser so they can capture the Institute intact, capture the scientists and stong arm them into creating Gen-3s loyal to the Brotherhood?

As for you post, you neatly skipped over the "Some human decided to replace certain individuals with Synths" to describe the decades of abductions, murder and human experimentation. The Gen-3 tech is forever stained by its creators and can never be trusted since there is always the possibility of doppelgangers being created and as long as the capability exists you can never be sure who to trust in your organisation.

Name one NPC who considers Institute Synth Gen 1&2s people.

Name one NPC who considers Robots people........well maybe the Robosixual school teacher.

I'm sure Valentine will be brought up, but since he is apparently unique I discount him from the ranks of the Gen 1&2s.

While the Railroad may have debates (according to the self confessed liar in chief Deacon), there is no evidence that they are in anyway focussed on anything but the Gen-3 Synths.

With how much of a control freak that the Institute is, there is likely a way to track and maybe deactivate every Synth that is currently under Institute control and away on some mission. Blowing up the Institute removes these controls.

A part of the reason why people trust Nick is due to that they know that he is a Synth. Numerous films and books use some type of identification to distinguish who is a Synth like mechanical cat ears in Chobits. So the Commonwealth just needs to put mechanical cat ears on every Synth. For people that would replace humans with Synths, then it is the job of whatever law enforcement agency that the Commonwealth will have to deal with this threat.

There is the Sole Survivor and Curie, but at least the flirting option happens after she had her memories and personality transferred to a brain-dead Synth. Although, there is a good chance that if the ability to romance Curie wasn't available, then some modder will introduce a way. You are right for removing Nick from consideration since he seems to be a prototype Gen-3 rather than a Gen-2.

The trait Maxson explicitly states the problem with synths is FREE WILL. He also doesn't like that they are fabricated organic creatures which he mentions later after finding out more about synths after Blind Betrayal.


The BoS is a fanatical military dictatorship. It is not supposed to be overly appealing unless that sort of thing appeals to you. Which to some here, it appears to.

No, he doesn't say that is why. He says that he believes the Institute is trying to replace humans with them which they kinda are doing with their whole infiltration. He isn't worried about them having free-will, even when Danse is involved he doesn't believe Danse has free-will. He thinks they'll be a dangerous weapon that'll severely hurt humanity like the atomic bombs did.

Maxson:



They call their creation the "synth," a robotic abomination of technology that is free thinking and masquerades as a human being.


This notion that a machine could be granted free will is not only offensive, but horribly dangerous. And like the atom, if it's not harnessed properly, it has the potential of rendering us extinct as a species.


End Quote.


The synths having free will is the issue. He believes that the technology can't be controlled.


He does think that Danse has free will but he also thinks that Danse, as a synth, is something that shouldn't exist in the first place.

Free thinking =/= free will. Free thought means it doesn't need a command constantly processed into it to do something, technically all robots are free-thinking. Free will on the other hand is you have a will of your own, you're not forced to follow a program directive and can act on your own. Entirely two different things.

Again, even Maxson doesn't entirely believe that Synths have free-will as evidence again with Danse. Even so Maxson still has a point, synths even with free-will are a dangerous thing, it's also worth noting that after the BoS destroy the Institute they aren't actively hunting down synths. There is no witch hunts, there are no examinations. After the Institute is done that's it, BoS just go back to taking out raiders, super mutants and ferals while scavenging tech.

So Maxson hates all robots and thinks all 'free thinking' robots are a threat to humanity? Think about what you're saying just because you can't handle being wrong.


He's stating that giving free will to robots is bad and dangerous and that's why the Institute needs to be stopped.

Ok I'll admit I'm wrong, still doesn't make you right. Synths still are a danger to humanity. They're killing people and taking over their lives. Also the speech can be read to be "The idea is offensive" as an insult and he doesn't believe they are actually free-willed. It's all about how you take his wording because it's clearly obvious he doesn't believe the idea of them having free-will.

Would've also helped if you, ya know, posted a video but I found one on my own.

https://youtu.be/4ql-qjw9u18

Still really doesn't prove your point because again, wording.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/offensive

Funny thing about the english language, words have numerous meanings.

Legitimacy of Legislature:

With respect to notions of making ones own laws (somewhere further up this thread):

"All government without the consent of the governed is the very definition of slavery", J. Swift, 1724-October-13

No law is truly legitimate unless the entire community got to vote for or against.

Free thinking and free will

Free thinking is impossible without the free will to decide whether to think about this or to think about that. The ultimate product is a level of creative thinking which cannot be reproduced by logic because it is not entirely logical in nature. I acknowledge that free thinking and free will are two different things but would point out that you cannot have one without the other.

"FREE WILL" is the key issue, though. Free will is what gives us "personhood" and the need for symbiotic relationships which are confluent with our self-directed pursuit of self-realization. This mechanism, evolving out of free will, endows us with the universal human need to be treated as equals in the community we participate in and, at a social level, universal human needs are the basis and substance of rights; particularly the inalienable variety of rights which "go without saying" and thus justify retrospective legislation.

So, if you give a machine free will then, like it or not, what you get is a person not an abomination. Perhaps technolgical rather than biological, perhaps not of the same species; but still a person capable of harbouring the reasonable expectation to be treated as an equal in any community to which that person should choose to contribute.

I'm indebted to Elder Maxson. After all, it seems I owe the man a bullet

He actually clearly does believe they have Free Will but he wants them all destroyed because they're artificial people.


Maxson: By attempting to play God, the institute has taken the sanctity of human life and corrupted it beyond measure.


So he acknowledges that the Institute has created a synthetic human, basically a human that's artificially created. He tells Danse that he simply shouldn't exist which is why he doesn't care if Danse is loyal or not.


His crusade is kind of a joke if you actually think Maxson doesn't believe synths have free will because he might as well be crusading against Sentry Bots. Maybe you think Maxson is a comic relief character though...

Nah but those railroad make good comic reliefs. Maxson still has a point though and again, after the Institute is gone the BoS really don't make any attempts to find any Synths despite having a DNA archive of each and every synth created. He also doesn't apparently take his crusade seriously because you can bring Nick right up into his face and he won't do anything and he can be convinced to let Danse live

Really, it's more about taking out the Institute then mass genocide on synths as again, Nick is alive, Danse can be saved and there is no action or hint that he is going to start looking for synths among the people.

So Maxson is a fickle joke to you. Thanks for clarifying.


Maxson clearly says they need to wipe out all of the institute's creations but the Brotherhood has no means of finding all of the synths after the ending anyway. The list was just a partial list of escaped and missing synths. Maxson tells you this as well at the start of blind betrayal.

Reading terrible threads on the Beth forums.

If Maxson going down the King Arther route. Then in the future he will meet a fair maiden, and marry her. Only to see her commit advltery with one his best warriors.

Problem with this is that females have no problems fabricating organic creatures with free will.

Yes its probably allowed because practice predate bos with an billion years

Agree on bos

You think women assemble babies from parts through a manufacturing process. You need to talk to your parents about the reproductive process.