You mean babies aren't assembled in baby factories and delivered by Storks? Why would parents lie about this?

If only Father was that cool. He is my favorite Simpsons character and was only in one episode. Certainly a much better boss than Burns and 99.99% of all other bosses.

Scribe Haylen-Danse-Maxson love triangle confirmed.

Straw man arguments aside, cell division and mitosis, on a scale of both detail and volume unheard of in traditional manufacturing, is still very much a manufacturing process, albeit a biological process honed to an optimum by natural selection.

Moreover, the question of sentience has nothing to do with how that sentience came into being but only whether there is sentience or not. Whether it is born in a shower of sparks or a river of gushing afterbirth has no bearing on whether the product of the creative process is possessed of sentience and capacity for creative thought.

I'd suggest that the capacity to independently request or demand equal treatment argued on the basis of relevant and real inequalities is very much indicative, in this regard.

So, if we are to assume, just for argument's sake, that "Father" and Maxson are to Fallout what Hitler and Stalin were to the mid 20th Century, could there be an acceptable peace? Suffice it to say, with all due respect to Hitler and his fellow Eugenists, I do not consider the genocide of all brown-eyed people (which would include myself) as an acceptable condition for peace. Sometimes there is simply no acceptable peace because the conditions attached to peace are unacceptable - which seems to be very much a theme in Skyrim if the "White-Gold Concordat" is any indication.

So I guess this raises the question as to whether we see an absence of acceptable peace as the situation portrayed in Fallout 4. Perhaps, there is the opportunity to use the peace option to demonstrate the case where suing for peace is the only "evil" option. After all, can there be an acceptable peace when at least two faction leaders seem to have a problem accepting the free will of others simply because they belong to unprotected minorities?

It's enough to make me wonder where the Railroad leads....

My thought too and the reason for the joke, main problem with the synts is that the institute program them so its trivial to set the behavior they want.

And that they are asshats. Take the quest there you give seed to an synt farmer who is an replacement for an father and husband.

Why not use som random loner arriving at an settlement with some new seeds. Far simpler to pull of and no downsides like killing.

Yes, the hypothetical setting there Danse and you kill Maxson and he takes over the brotherhood. This is an canceled quest as I understand.

Next you want to change the institute and as director you have the best option to do so.

Honestly wish they kept that in.Having the BoS main quest turn into more of a civil war or something would've been cool.

I agree with that. I think a minor civil war or two would be better then nuking the damn city.

The city isn't nuked, one uninhabited (no where near any settlements) area is nuked and its the smartest way to ensure the destruction of the Institute, which is why everybody destroys the Institute in the same way.

'nuking' the bad guy at the end of the main story is something of a tradition in Fallout at this point.

At least the Institute ending gives some variety.

Yeah its nice to have the bad guys winning option (like NV).

BoS and/or RR are not compatible with the Institute. A peaceful ending between the three of them would be weak sauce imho. It also wouldn't be an ending at all since hostilities would undoubtedly resume some time in the future.

I can see BoS, RR and Minutemen at peace. (That ending is possible.)

But being General of the Minutemen, Elder of the Brotherhood, Railroad Alpha of the Railroad, and Director of the Institute would be consistent with other Bethesda games. People could have their peaceful ending by being the leader of each faction.

I can see BoS and Institute...but it'd really have to have that civil war path for the BoS and a way to get to that point so you aren't enemies with the Institute, or your character does a take over instead of just ascending to the role of director. It is certainly possible in theory though.

I cannot, the Institute is a tailor made enemy for the Brotherhood....

Unethical Scientists - like those that led to the birth of the Brotherhood.

FEV experiments and Super Mutant creation - like those that led to the birth of the Brotherhood.

Add to that the creation of a machine that can infiltrate their ranks and destroy the Brotherhood from within and you've a quasi-religious military group that has had the perfect foe handed to them, the very sort that led the 'first' Maxson to lay down the Codex.

You are correct that it would probably take a civil war with the new initiates and newer Knights breaking with the Codex totally to allow a scenario where a BOS faction could make peace with the Institute.......really they wouldn't be BOS in anything but name only.

So possible in theory, but you would really have to change the BOS to make it possible.

Actually, the civil war path wouldn't work for the Brotherhood and Institute being allies. Only a bigger threat would be able to do that. I could see the Institute being subservient to the Brotherhood. So any research being done by an Institute scientist has to be approved by the Brotherhood. While Danse is a Synth, his heart is Brotherhood. No Brotherhood except for Father Elijah (New Vegas) would ever allow the Institute to have free reign on what type of research to do. So the Directorate would all be Brotherhood except for maybe one or two spots open for the Institute assuming that the Brotherhood wants to give the Institute a voice.

Uh, No?

- Morrowind had incompatible factions. The Great Houses amongst themselves for instance. Only two sides were involved in the MQ, and only one side was joinable. A peaceful resolution was impossible.

- Oblivion had incompatible factions. Only two sides were involved in the MQ, and only one side was joinable. A peaceful resolution was impossible.

- In F3 again two sides were involved in the MQ and only one was joinable. A peaceful resolution was impossible.

- In F:NV (not Bethesda's quest designs) you couldn't become the leader of all factions involved. A peaceful resolution of the MQ was possible, but again: you weren't leader of all the factions even if you took that path.

- Skyrim had incompatible factions. The Empire vs. the Brotherhood. The Empire vs. the Stormcloaks. The best the player could do to have both The Empire and the Stormcloaks on friendly terms was to broker a temporary ceasefire between the two. Also, in Skyrim two sides were involved in the MQ and only one was joinable. A peaceful resolution was impossible.

I'll tell you what, in fact: FO4 is an improvement. Yay! At least FO4 allows you the choice to side with the other side in resolving the MQ. At least FO4 has more then two sides with somewhat different paths to resolving the MQ between them.

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Really? I can't.

They would have to break with the BoS codex and get rid of some of it's deepest traditions and beliefs for that. There's enough material there to warrant a whole new game if you'd want to do that properly.

But still, you can slap a sticker on it and still call it BoS, it just wouldn't be the BoS.

I think only two factions in NV actually let the Courier become a leader. The Great Khans and Yesman.

In previous Bethesda games (notably the Elder Scrolls series), you could be head of the various Guilds. You could not swap to the opposite side of the MQ. You could never join with Mehrunes Dagon. You could never help Alduin achieve his goals. The only way to reach endgame was to defeat both of these enemies fully. The Empire vs Stormcloaks were not the MQ, but a side quest -- a very important one, but still not the MQ.

F:NV was an Obsidian game and it feels like Bethesda was trying, for the first time, to emulate it in a faction. It may not be a perfect emulation, but it shows they're trying to expand their repertoire.

should keep them busy for a while at least...

I can see that, yes. This game is distinctly different from it's Bethesda predecessors in how it allows the player some choice between sides and paths in resolving the MQ.

Although I don't think it's necessarily inspired by Obsidian.

Exactly what I was talking about. Becoming the leader of the Mages Guild, Fighters Guild, Thieves Guild, and Dark Brotherhood was possible in Oblivion with with the Dark Brotherhood not being able to join in Morrowind and Skyrim missing the Fighters Guild.

The factions in Fallout seem like Guilds instead of major factions since they don't have the same sense of scope. Caesar's Legion and the NCR seemed like major factions in New Vegas, but the Minutemen were almost defeated when the Sole Survivor showed up and the Railroad, Institute, and Brotherhood only have one base. You can join each of the main factions in Fallout and there is no enemy faction or final boss that needs to always be defeated to complete the game. Since there is no enemy that always needs to be defeated in Fallout 4, then becoming the leader of each of the factions would create a peaceful ending. We already can become the leader of the Minutemen and Institute. There is just the Brotherhood civil war that was cut from the game to make our character leader of the Brotherhood and becoming the leader of the Railroad or make their existence meaningless through the Sole Survivor's power as Director of the Institute.

The Brotherhood would have no reason to destroy the Institute since the Institute is under their (the Sole Survivor's) control. The Institute can conduct research in peace without being threatened by some organization. The Minutemen just care about bringing order to the Commonwealth and they can with the Brotherhood's and Synths' help. The Railroad no longer has any reason to fight since Gen-3 Synths no longer need to be rescued. So either they can become part of the Sole Survivor's regime or be swept aside. Of course, this is unrealistic, but being able to become leader of each Guild in the Elder Scrolls games is just as unrealistic.

Slight Correction -- The Brotherhood has three locales that they control if you go through at least finishing Liberty Reprimed. They control the Prydwen and Boston Airport (which combine to easily be as big at the Institute's primary facility), the Cambridge Police Station (which receives substantial fortification after the Prydwen arrives), and Waypoint Echo near the Glowing Sea (the last of which is the smallest location, more of a checkpoint than a base). Cambridge has its own pair of radiant quests to clear locations and find tech.

The Institute controls the CIT underground and the Switchboard (formerly Railroad HQ). Though they intentionally do not care much about controlling specific locations.

The Railroad is, specifically, on its last legs when you start helping it. Even then it still controls the Old North Church, Ticonderoga Safehouse, (later if you help them) Mercer Safehouse, and Randolph Safehouse (which does not appear in game while still being in the Commonwealth somewhere, though you do meet Mr. Tims).

As for there being 'no enemy that always needs to be defeated' in FO4, let's just agree to disagree on that one.

I'm more worried about the Brotherhood winning, personally.

Eh, the Railroad could be at peace with the Institute, I think, if it knew the Institute's policies would change.

That's not really a matter for agree/disagree: there is no single enemy who must always be defeated to complete the main quest.

No, no it couldn't and we've discussed this at lengths before. The Institute has killed way to many of the Railroad's people, at this point it feels more like the Railroad is more interested in bloodlust and the destruction of the Institute then actually helping the Synths.

Again, the Institute has been for over 80 years been destroying everything the Railroad makes. Every safehouse has been destroyed by the Institute, every HQ has been destroyed, the entire organization had to reform three times just to survive and they still lose and lose and lose and lose. Just stop ignoring the obvious, the Railroad has no reason to come to peace with the Institute even if they change their policies that bloodshed, that destruction, the memory of all their loved ones and friends dying is still in their minds.

the Railroad has the most reason to destroy the Institute then make peace with it.