» Wed May 02, 2012 11:08 pm -Nehrim and Mods-
How to install and manage mods with Nehrim
Problems and solutions for managing two installs
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1118767-nehrim-and-mods/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1159104-nehrim-and-mods-ii/
Informative threads:
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1132338-boss-for-nehrim/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1116000-mods-that-work-with-nehrim/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1115780-how-to-make-a-mod-for-nehrim/
Contents:
1st post - how to use mod tools and manage multiple installs.
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1159104-nehrim-and-mods-ii/page__view__findpost__p__16995426 - info on how to port mods from Oblivion yourself.
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1159104-nehrim-and-mods-ii/page__view__findpost__p__16995434 - list of mods that are easy to port or made to work with Nehrim.
Nerhim is a total conversion of the Oblivion game that includes an entirely new world space, plot, quests and can basically be thought of as a new game. Since it is a modified version of the Oblivion game it uses most of the resources, models, meshes, textures, and so on from Oblivion. further, while many things about game play and mechanics have been altered there are still many areas that are not altered and play much like the vanilla Oblivion game. For some this is a call for mods. others may just want to mod the new facets of Nehrim. The purpose of this thread is to provide a forum for both how to add mods to Nehrim and use the mod tools with Nehrim, specifically the English version of Nehrim.
A few things first ... This is not the official Nehrim thread and is meant to give a forum for those who want to mod Nehrim so that they do not clutter the official thread with questions and requests. Please direct all questions about Nehrim that do not have to do with mods to http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1118493-release-nehrim-at-fates-edge-english-version/, which last I checked was locked but there is also their official forum http://sureai.de/forum/viewforum.php?f=81. It is no more complicated than signing up here.
This first post will be about the problems with using Mod managing tools with Nehrim, the second post will concern itself with how to port mods from oblivion to Nehrim, the third post will be describe mods that are Nehrim ready and other resources.
Install Choices
The main choice with reading this thread is whether to set Nehrim up a a stand alone game that overrides Oblivion or as a parallel game that does not interfere with Oblivion. In other words if you want to mod Nehrim then first decide if you want both a Nehrim and Oblivion game playable - if yes then investigate the tool http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1142151-rel-mtes4-manager/ or http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1221695-relz-mom-multiple-oblivion-manager/ (set it up first) If you don't and only want Nehrim then install Oblivion then immediately Install Nehrim. Doing this will clarify most things as you will see it will create a different install path.and data folder. If you later get nostalgic for Oblivion and want to play it again you can still use mTES4 Manager later - it is just easier to set all up prior to adding mods to either game.
Nehrim Game Contents
If one follows the Nehrim installers recommendations and creates an entirely new game directory then the installer will extract the resources it needs from your Oblivion directory and copy them the new Nehrim directory. These include the Oblivion.exe and the BSA files, but not the Oblivion plugins (it uses none of them). Nehrim will then have its own directory and data folder that is separate from the oblivion directory and data folder. This means that mods can be added manually much like with Oblivion. This is the good news.
The not so great news is that the Nehrim game wants to use the same Oblivion.ini and the save game folder, and the same Plugins.txt file (found in %appdata%\Local\Oblivion\Plugins.txt) which tells the launcher or other mod manager what plugins are active) with Oblivion. This has been the central hitch to being able to run both games concurently. A primary reason for this is that the Nehrim Launcher (once you run the settings tab) will reformat the Oblivion.ini which can make issues for the normal Oblivion game just as using the normal Oblivion.ini will make issues for Nehrim. Likewise having both games share the same save game folder can lead to problems as the last save game has an interaction with the current mods active. Another issue is that Nehrim does not make use of the Oblivion.esm and so some utilities have issues with that esm missing.
More about these below, but first some basics that do work well. These first three topics for those not so concerned with consecutively running Oblivion and just want to mod Nehrim.
Archive Invalidation
Nehrim makes use of a now antiquated method of applying its modifications with the use of an archive invalidation.txt that serves to tell the game which files are to overwrite the files included in the BSA archives. More about this can be found http://devnull.sweetdanger.net/archiveinvalidation.html. If one just wanted to add replacement textures and meshes then a more universally useful way of being able to put the files in the Nehrim data folder and play is to use http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10724. This is a BSA that redirects the engine to use loose files to overide BSA files. You simply put it in the data folder and then add it to the Oblivion.ini as per the readme. Wrye Bash has this as an option and OBMM also has this function integrated.
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2097:
This has been the premier mod manager for Oblivion and the good news is that installing this into the Nehrim folder as you would into the Oblvion folder will give you the Nehrim Mod Manager (well you might have to rename it yourself). It will not interact with the regular Oblivion Mod Manager and you can set it to store it OMODs in a different directory closer to your Nehrim Directory. It is not finicky with the Oblivion.esm missing and so it is the most friendly tool to port over to Nerhim. The only file that OBMM needs to run that is not in the Nehrim folder is the Oblivion>default.ini, which you can copy over to the Nehrim folder. Nehrim will not access this default ini so it will not disturb Nehrim. The one function I could not get to work was the launch the game function. OBMM also has a function similar to Archive Invalidation Invalidated called BSA redirection. If you use OBMM with this set you do not need Archive Invalidation Invalidated. http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=32277
http://obse.silverlock.org/:
Much like the mod manager OBSE can be installed as you would in the Oblivion directory. And likewise you can create a shorcut for the OBSE launcher called 'Nehrim' or whatever. The question then remains whether mods that use OBSE can be ported over to Nehrim. It is my belief that it mostly works with Nehrim. http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1113709-relz-oblivion-script-extender-obse-0018/page__view__findpost__p__16404075 I asked and the answer I recieved regarding OBSE and Nehrim:
Some of us have been attempting to port OBSE mods over and focusing on mods that are scripted and therefore do not rely much on the Oblivion.esm. What we are noticing is that some features of these mods work and some do not. Some initialize and some do not.
I suppose one track could be to mod directly for nehrim but was wondering if perhaps it is something that could be handled with OBSE more directly. Perhaps there are entries that are needed from the Oblivion.esm or some other arcane thing I may not understand that is missing when trying to use OBSE with Nehrim. Maybe it needs a tweak or two so that these mods do initialize in this TC.
I suppose one track could be to mod directly for nehrim but was wondering if perhaps it is something that could be handled with OBSE more directly. Perhaps there are entries that are needed from the Oblivion.esm or some other arcane thing I may not understand that is missing when trying to use OBSE with Nehrim. Maybe it needs a tweak or two so that these mods do initialize in this TC.
If OBSE is successfully loading and running the game then the .exe hasn't been modified. OBSE itself doesn't depend on anything in the .ini to the best of my knowledge. There may be a handful of commands that expect certain default objects to be present (I'm thinking things like Gold001, magic effects, skills, and game settings); if those objects are removed then some commands may fail to execute correctly. As you're probably finding, most mods are dependent on some of the data defined in Oblivion.esm as well, which will cause problems with or without OBSE.
-The next set are more specifically about porting mods over to Nehrim-
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8665:
Can be used normally and you can direct it look anywhere on your computer you like for plugins. This is the best tool for reassigning masters (see post two).
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11536:
The most current and up to date version for Fallout 3 and Oblivion found being discussed http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1047128-is-masterupdate-still-necessary/page__view__findpost__p__15191175 and found http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=1925.
There are two ways to use Tes4edit. You can leave it as it is working with the Oblivion directory and move Nehrim mods over to the Oblivion data directory for cleaning and examining, or you can change the directory it examines with Tes4Gecko as described http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1116000-mods-that-work-with-nehrim/page__view__findpost__p__16422983.
I've just figured out a bit of a hack to make TES4Edit work with Nehrim, the only problem being that you can't use TES4Edit to work with mods in Oblivion's and Nehrim's data directories at the same time.
First, you need TES4Gecko installed and working. Then again, if you're porting mods from Oblivion to Nehrim, you should probably already have it since TES4Gecko, IMHO, is the safest way of changing the master list of a plugin.
Next, open TES4Gecko then click on the button that says "Set Directory". You will then get the option of choosing a new data directory, navigate to Nehrim's "Data" folder and make that the new directory. Once that is done, TES4Edit should show you a list of mods in Nehrim's directory instead of Oblivion's. Once you are finished, open TES4Gecko again and change the Data folder back to Oblivion's one.
First, you need TES4Gecko installed and working. Then again, if you're porting mods from Oblivion to Nehrim, you should probably already have it since TES4Gecko, IMHO, is the safest way of changing the master list of a plugin.
Next, open TES4Gecko then click on the button that says "Set Directory". You will then get the option of choosing a new data directory, navigate to Nehrim's "Data" folder and make that the new directory. Once that is done, TES4Edit should show you a list of mods in Nehrim's directory instead of Oblivion's. Once you are finished, open TES4Gecko again and change the Data folder back to Oblivion's one.
As http://sureai.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=3453 the CS can work with Nehrim:
Many try to open the Nehrim Files with the TES-CS from the Oblivion-Directory. But this is false!
The two files NehrimData.esp + Nehrim.esm are just placeholders with zero content. You have to proceed differently to modding Nehrim.
You need these two files from your Oblivion-Directory (I'm assuming, that you have the latest "TES-CS_vers.1.2.404" installed):
TESConstructionSet.exe
ssce5432.dll
Copy this into the Nehrim Directory:
Nehrim\TESConstructionSet.exe
Nehrim\ssce5432.dll
Now you can modding Nehrim with the TESConstructionSet.exe from the Nehrim-Directory.
Attention! The file NehrimData.esp should not to be loaded. It is not needed for modding and may later cause unnecessary troubles. Please only upload Nehrim.esm!
The two files NehrimData.esp + Nehrim.esm are just placeholders with zero content. You have to proceed differently to modding Nehrim.
You need these two files from your Oblivion-Directory (I'm assuming, that you have the latest "TES-CS_vers.1.2.404" installed):
TESConstructionSet.exe
ssce5432.dll
Copy this into the Nehrim Directory:
Nehrim\TESConstructionSet.exe
Nehrim\ssce5432.dll
Now you can modding Nehrim with the TESConstructionSet.exe from the Nehrim-Directory.
Attention! The file NehrimData.esp should not to be loaded. It is not needed for modding and may later cause unnecessary troubles. Please only upload Nehrim.esm!
BOSS version 1.60+ is nerhim compatible and it will download the Nehrim Masterlist when you run the BOSS update. This masterlist is a separate list from Oblivion.
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1132338-boss-for-nehrim/ - please take questions and topics about BOSS and Nehrim to that thread.
-The more complex issues-
Here things become much more complex and if any section is going to be updated it is likely this one either because I got something wrong or there is an update. I'm not perfect and I do make mistakes and certainly this has stretched my understanding of the game, so just let me know what I did wrong.
To return to the issues above regarding Nehrim wanting to share the games folder under my documents. I've found that trying to load Oblivion with the Nehrim altered version of the Oblivion.ini or trying to load Nehrim with the normal Oblivion.ini that neither game will work. To resolve this manually I initially made temporary folders for each ini and swapped them out depending upon which game I was going to load.
Another issue is save game folder sharing. By default the save games are found in the oblivion folder under documents/my games/Oblivion (where the ini also is). if one does not use a save game manager or swap save folders manually the save games from each game will be in the same folder. Wrye Bash offers save game profile options to create multiple save game folders. If one does not want to use Wrye Bash then there are a few other save game managers. I use LazyMonk's http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8678 which can also handle Fallout 3 and can do more than just manage save profiles - it can list masters for saves and renumber saves.
In a sometimes hidden folder (located in %appdata%\Local\Oblivion\Plugins.txt) is the Plugins.txt - this is a list that the Oblivion launcher, Nehrim Launcher, Oblivion Mod Manager, or Wrye Bash reads as the active plugins. If one switches between utilities like the launchers to OBMM to the Nehrim ported Mod Manager and especially Wrye Bash then they will become (anthropomorphically) confused about what is loaded.
The manual work around I've been doing is to finish whatever I'm doing in Wrye Bash and close it or the normal Oblivion Mod Manager prior to opening the Nehrim ported Mod Manager. This way I can reactivate the mods for Nehrim and the normal utiities will not undo this process. If these are opened again then they will deactivate most of the nehrim plugins.
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1116792-rel-inizer/ is an OBSE plugin that ShadeME designed to address this issue. It can be used with either Oblivion or Nehrim to reassign the Oblivion.ini and the plugins.txt
With this then whenever you want to switch games you will just have to make sure you have the right save game profile as the active one and make sure that you close the utilities of the game you don't want to play first then open the utlilities of the game you do want to play to make sure all the plugins are active then launch that game. If you open the utilities of the other game (that you don't want to play) then it might override the settings and active plugins. This is completely unnecessary and unneeded if using mTS4 Manager.
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22368:
Wrye Bash unfortunately is not designed to support multiple installs. It creates settings and folders in several locations and evn if you install it in the Nehrim directory it will impact the normal Wrye Bash settings and vice versa. It also requires the Oblivion.esm in the data folder to even start.
roxahris has been working with Pacific Morrowind and as of version 290+ Wrye Bash will work with Nehrim installed and does not need Oblivion.esm!! More work in this area may be forthcoming for having bash work with the Nehrim.esm.
The next big step:
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1142151-rel-mtes4-manager/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1119357-wipz-mtes4-manager/ - Old thread
or (don't use both)
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1221695-relz-mom-multiple-oblivion-manager/
From all the issues discussed here and for reasons of inspiration all his own fellow forum goer Gaticus has created the tool to manage all tools. With this tool one resolves all the issues with managing multiple installs on the same operating system. What this simple tool does is add small ini files to the Oblivion, game profile, and associated app data folder. From there one can then clone these folders with unique names and with a few clicks you will be switching entire game installs before you know it.
Warning: Unless you want to clone your entire modded game as it is - it is recommended that you clone a fresh install. The thread details how to do that.
It resolves all the above issues because with each swap there is a new Oblivon directory and associated folders. The caveate being that one would have to also install the modding tools and mods for each new clone. This means that even the INIzer is not needed.
The one area where there is issue is in the fact that the way that Wrye Bash is currently formatted the BAIN folder (bash installers) is shared between the clones when using Wrye Bash default settings. Using he Bash.ini one can repath this directory and for each bash have a seperate BAIN archive. This does eat a lot of disk space and the great news is that the Wrye Bash team is already working on removing this issue by having the location of what BAIN packages are installed stored within the game profiles folder.
I highly recommend the use of this tool which I've found very useful in testing tool and mods as well as now having three fully modded Oblivion games that I can swap between with ease.
Resources:
The http://sureai.de/forum/viewforum.php?f=81 with http://sureai.de/forum/viewforum.php?f=86
http://www.invision.tesalliance.org/forums/index.php?/topic/3057-nehrim-total-conversion-english-version/
The pinned threads of this forum.
