I just finished watched the end of the series Neon Genesis Evangelion. During the final sequences, three main characters experience a similar struggle to rectify their own existence in the face of non-existence. Specifically, Rei (spoilers ahead), upon discovering that she is not a 'real' human being, experiences the internal conflict between herself that realizes her false reality and herself that insists on her existence based on interactions with others, feelings, etc.

While watching this, I couldn't help but notice similarities between this quandary and the concept of CHIM. Are they truly similar? Folks who've seen the show should know what I'm talking about.

So is CHIM the realization of the impossibility of one's own existence, yet insisting upon it anyway? (Now that I think about it, it seems to be similar to Meg "Naming" the Echthroi in Madeline L'Engle's A Wind in the Door) Not insisting as in struggling or fighting against an uncertainty, but rather, something more like "Hey, screw you, reality, no matter what you say, I AM!"

Comments?

CHIM is realising that your "existence" is just one piece of pie, making up a whole pie (which is half cherry, and half blueberry, but even then you realise it's still berry flavour), and that no matter what, you're part of it (losing your ability to say "I AM NOT-", replacing it with "I AM [EVERYTHING]").

I was hungry

CHIM is having your cake and eating it too.

It's also about having [censored]loads of anologies and still not being able to decide on a solid one.

Expect more.

http://roh0.com/heresyte/files/wallpapers/portal_-_the_cake_is_a_lie.jpg

Good anology, though.

As for the OP, well, remember that a lot of Evangelion had to do with psychology, not necessarily metaphysics, so something CHIM-esque may not necessarily be the answer to the mind screw ending. Then again, the concept of identity was a large underlying theme of that anime, so perhaps you could argue that the characters survived the recreation of the world (ie didn't turn into Tang juice) and retained their identities through something like CHIM (or moksha/nirvana, if you prefer).

Though, really, I still have trouble taking Evangelion seriously when it seems so apparent (through interviews and stuff) that the creator of the series did the nonsensical ending full of Christian symbolism and weirdness not because of an urge to express some idea but, rather, to try and milk an anime in which he was running out of ideas.

Hoo...tell me about it.

It's just fun to compare Evangelion with TES, but seriously, that's not serious.

The cake is a lie? Not when I'm the cake and the lie is me. (I?)

Eat that... Me.

The cake doesn't matter, because pie tastes so much better. But the cake and the pie are both real, it's just the slices of both that aren't.

I am the cake, and I eat myself. I am eternal. No cake for you. I dream of the patterns in my icing.

Mmm...cake philosophy. Yum.

Evangelion's main theme is that of collectivism (ultimately culminating in a hive mind) vs individualism (which is manifested in at fields).

Evangelion really resembles the Numidium in my opinion, but these underlying themes are present in lots of different media.

I don't see a strong connection with Mr.Stompy, and Evangelion. There isn't even any pie, or cake. How sad.

Absorbicide time.

dont forget about the oversoul of kings in the amulet of kings. New life through convergence seems to be a recurring thread in the TES universe.

I want someone to write a paper on absorbicide. I keep finding it difficult to accept until I view it with the right air of mythic justice. Too romantic by far, I am.

Aurbis-- creation of a new reality through the fusion-explosion of stasis and change

Mudus-- Creation of new (mundane) life through the severance, then merging of divine parts.

Anumidium-- Creation of a new god by the severing and merging of mundane parts.

Amulet of Kings-- Creation of a new, immortal soul manifestation of royalty through the acquisition of the souls of kings (and queens)

City Face-- a being created through the collective daily business and group voices of cities


It has been done many times, only one seems quasi stable.

The difference seems to be that the Dwemer didn't survive in their original form as well.

perhaps, but there does seem to be a recurring theme, and with it, a somewhat strong case for the existence of an archetype called "Gestalt"


I am surprised there isnt a church of the gestalt on Mundus......


Hmm...


if one were to merge with themselves, (all their [infinite] incarnations throughout history) they would become a gestalt of one. what a strange concept.

I would explore that line of inquiry if I lived on the Mundus.

Hmmn... help me out. Source me.

The "Godhead" is the gestalt of all the contents of the Aurbis, including primal sithis and raw anu. It seems to be the prime aspect of the gestalt.

The aurbis itself is the inside view of this gestalt.

Inside this gestalt, there is another gestalt created artificially. The mundus. the mundus is not of the whole mind of the prime gestalt, but still a gestalt of divided parts, brought back together. It has its own form of divinity, different from all the others.

Inside this gestalt, there have been at least 3 more. The amulet of kings, The Anumidium, and the city face monster.


it could be argued that part of the psijiic teachings revolve around gestalt-acceptance theory, especially some of the lessons depicted in [last seed, last year of the 1st era]-- where sotha sil teaches new novicates at the crystal tower how about how to look into the universe for higher knowledge.

Same could be said with the Moth Priests order, and the way they send dream sendings through memospores in the dreamsleave gestalt.

Numbidium is a hive-mind whose creation results in the destruction of an entire race. Same with Lilliam.

I think the Scripture of the City should be read twice daily. It's beautiful.

But if it espouses the ideals of City-Face, its also a beautiful description of a horrible ideal.

The city face fled from vivec after his union with Bal, and found refuge in the ruminations of cities and villages, and in the sounds of huddle masses.

Cityface was benign until the grabbers took it, and saw in it the semblance of the divine. It was then that they built their TowerHope upon it, (If the tower symbology is held true here, this kind of tower building would have drastically altered cityface.), which then caused its citizens to die. They came to make war on vivec, to get one one of two things.

Either vivec's culture, or for him to correct the error of theirs. He gave them the latter, then slew them, and their tower hope for daring to replace love.

Numbidium was more of a giant pie with lots of cakes squished into it's outside to make it look like a giant cake. But I can see why you'd see it as more of a cake. Must of been a good flavour as everyone wanted a slice.



-I should really get something to eat.

Wasn't it once said on this forum that the monsters such as City-Face are metaphors, not literal beings; that MK was putting a face on different experiences such as being a writer or living in a city? Maybe someone can confirm this.

(At the same time, I've been taking most of the other events in the Sermons literally -- Vivec changing his timeline so that he existed as a god before his birth as a mortal, and so on. When I first read the Sermons years ago, I assumed they were nonsense written by the priesthood, but I came to realize they should probably be taken literally.)

You mean like the Temple of the One of the Alessian Order? It's hard to say whether or not "The One" was a collection of everything or just the Anuic gods, but it largely fits your ideal.