nerevar and morrowind mq

Post » Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:40 pm

house indoril was very xenofobic and hated the empire but in the mainquest youre sent by the empire and you become nerevar to defeat another xenofobic house it doesnt make much sense to me can anyone explain me that part?
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Ron
 
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Post » Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:38 am

house indoril was very xenofobic and hated the empire but in the mainquest youre sent by the empire and you become nerevar to defeat another xenofobic house it doesnt make much sense to me can anyone explain me that part?


Some of the Houses are more xenophobic than others. House Hlaalu is the most "Imperialized" one, led by King Helseth who has made an alliance with the Dres. As the PGE 3rd mentions a couple of years before the Oblivion Crisis: "The Great Houses themselves, long stagnant, are adjusting to the new powers in the land. Some, like Dres and Hlaalu, appear to be on the rise, embracing the new traditions while welcoming the return of the old. Others, like Indoril and Redoran, seem to be waning, unable to change with the times. "

Dagoth Ur wanted to destroy the Imperials and all Dunmer who wouldn't convert to his cult/House. In a way, you're defending the Empire as well as the Imperialized Dunmer by destroying the Sixth House; and even though the Ashlanders are also xenophobic, you're saving them as well by destroying Ur (whom the Ashlanders consider the devil). Along the way, you're also a pawn of Azura in helping destroy the last vestiges of the Tribunal, but it can't be helped (and Vivec understands this).
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Susan Elizabeth
 
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Post » Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:51 am

OP: Well, for one thing a great deal of time has past since the time of Nerevar, so logically the situation has changed. For another, I still don't see why we must regard Nerevar as a xenophobe. Yes, I'm aware he drove the Nords out of Morrowind, but he also was supposedly one of Dumac's greatest friends, which seems to imply a willingness on his part to work with other races.

Futhermore, the Nerevarine isn't Nerevar. The Nerevarine was presumably raised in the West somewhere (or at least not in Morrowind), so a pro-Imperial attitude is not in any way a stretch. And though Dagoth-Ur's downfall would seem to be very much in the Empire's interest (though I believe there is a theory which holds that the Nerevatine's actions, specifically those relating to the demise of the Tribunal, helped create the Oblivion Crisis as much as anything), the Great Houses and the Ashlanders all stand to profit from it as well.

So I don't see what your problem is.
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Isabell Hoffmann
 
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Post » Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:40 pm

Some of the Houses are more xenophobic than others. House Hlaalu is the most "Imperialized" one, led by King Helseth who has made an alliance with the Dres (including a political marriage, though I need to check whether that's in the PGE 3rd or not). Dagoth Ur wanted to destroy the Imperials and all Dunmer who wouldn't convert to his cult/House. In a way, you're defending the Empire as well as the Imperialized Dunmer by destroying the Sixth House; and even though the Ashlanders are also xenophobic, you're saving them as well by destroying Ur (whom the Ashlanders consider the devil). Along the way, you're also a pawn of Azura in helping destroy the last vestiges of the Tribunal, but it can't be helped (and Vivec understands this).


so you could say its kind of an aliance? acording to the wiki some of house indoril even commited suicide after the treaty with the empire, its a little strange to have the empire send an outlander to become nerevar, in a way youre supporting the fall of the empire in morrowind, and youre an outlander which if im not wrong they also didnt like
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priscillaaa
 
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Post » Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:50 am

The part of the prophecies about driving away the outlanders was added later. After all, after the war, the Dwemer were gone and the Nords were driven out, so there were no outlanders in Morrowind.

Edit: The Moth Priests probably just divined the Elder Scrolls for a good candidate. Azura handled the rest,
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Jesus Sanchez
 
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Post » Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:45 am

Well the Wiki isn't the most reliable source in any case since everyone could write there.

But it's highly possible that some would do so, and yes it's a matter of alliance in some cases, the Emperor sent you to Vvardenfell but I dont think anyone knows for sure why he did it.
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Marine x
 
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Post » Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:51 pm

so you could say its kind of an aliance? acording to the wiki some of house indoril even commited suicide after the treaty with the empire, its a little strange to have the empire send an outlander to become nerevar, in a way youre supporting the fall of the empire in morrowind, and youre an outlander which if im not wrong they also didnt like


The Nerevarine is considered an Outlander in Morrowind whether he or she is Dunmer or another race. The Empire didn't expect you would oppose them during the main quest of "Morrowind"; you're removing a disruptive force, to put it mildly, so that the flow of Ebony and Glass will continue to Cyrodiil. As far as we're shown when we complete the Main Quest, we've restored the status quo, with the exception of the fall of the Tribunal; the Temple will have to continue on as best they can, declaring the Tribunal to be saints and reverting to ancestor worship.

When the Oblivion Crisis comes along three years later or so, the Empire is left effectively headless and Morrowind and the other provinces are probably more on their own. We'll know more if a TES V game is ever released.
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Solina971
 
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Post » Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:27 am

Well the Empire really had little choice in the matter, if it was because you actually are the Incarnate then they had no choice, and if they simply choose someone, then it would be doubtful they could get a native born Dunmer to actually cooperate with them. It was going to be an outlander no matter what.

Also you are the Nerevarine, not Nerevar himself(as stated here already). You are also not by default part of House Indoril, and they probably are not going to embrace you simply because you are the Nerevarine, or even like you much. You just destroyed their religion, most of them will probably despise you if they aren't trying to kill you. Also, if by the other xenophobic Great House you are referring to House Dagoth, then the other Houses are probably not going to mind you destroying them, outlander or not. Just because they are both xenophobic doesn't mean they will agree with each other.

A native born Dunmer would still find it just as difficult to convince all the parties involved as well. If he/she was an Ashlander, he would have difficulty convincing the Great Houses to agree, and the other way around, a House Dunmer would have a hard time with the Ashlanders. No matter what, the Temple Ordinators would attempt to kill anyone that named themselves Nerevarine. So being an Outlander actually doesn't make it that much more difficult, and you are almost like a neutrally-hated-by-all party in a way.
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Amy Cooper
 
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Post » Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:20 pm

A native born Dunmer would still find it just as difficult to convince all the parties involved as well. If he/she was an Ashlander, he would have difficulty convincing the Great Houses to agree, and the other way around, a House Dunmer would have a hard time with the Ashlanders. No matter what, the Temple Ordinators would attempt to kill anyone that named themselves Nerevarine. So being an Outlander actually doesn't make it that much more difficult, and you are almost like a neutrally-hated-by-all party in a way.


That seems like a good point. It reminded me right away of a scene in the classic film "Lawrence of Arabia", when two Bedouin tribes are ready to fight each other over a vendetta when T. E. Lawrence announces he will execute the accused himself and thereby keep the peace, since he is of neither tribe.

Come to think of it, Lawrence was like the Nerevarine in that he starts as an outlander but becomes the warchief of several Bedouin tribes during the battle against the Ottomans, while at the same time serving an Empire (the British). Like the Nerevarine, Lawrence is discarded at the end of the war -- the Nerevarine goes off to Akavir, and Lawrence returns to England and obscurity. Interesting . . . .
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Alba Casas
 
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Post » Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:08 pm

Perhaps Lawrence of Arabia was one of the subtle influences for the Hortator character? Bethesda has a long record of subtle movie/book/pen n paper RPG nods.

Anyway, like others have said, the Nerevarine is not Nerevar himself. Maybe in spirit but not necessarily in Personality or in Body. House Indoril would have no pressing reason to embrace such a person, least of all if they're an outlander Argonian Female or something. Or even if they were native Dunmer. The Nerevarine basically demolished the Tribunal and contributed to the decline of the Temple..and perhaps less directly, to the increase of Imperial Cult worship later, because if indeed the Hearth of Lorkhan was Red Tower Stone, then its tonal rearrangement and physical removal from that place acted as a blow against the barrier between Mundus and Oblivion. THUS, because the Nerevarine weakened the barrier, and Dagon was able to launch an invasion, the Emperor died, THUS did Martin become the avatar of Akatosh, and Dark Elves converted to that religion in droves.

If ever Indoril nobles and Ordinators had a reason to chew Cyanide pills, this is the time.
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SWagg KId
 
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Post » Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:58 am

OP - I am not sure why you are calling Indoril xenophobic. The history seems to be that they simply refused to accept being conquered = pride. There may have been something about their hating outlanders but in my experience the Hlaalu themselves actually seemed to have a core of dissent towards the embracing of things Imperial - remember the Count's brother and his connection with Dagoth Ur.

The other House that was strongly resistant was Telvanni - but that was simply a question of whether they deemed you accomplished enough to be considered worthy to join them.

Where Dres might stand I have no idea - though they are actually said to be the most traditional house, they are also said to have vampires in their upper ranks, which is totally contrary to known dunmer tradition.

However looking at the political situation the Imperials invaded Morrowind but did not conquer it. and yet they are still attempting to undermine the dunmer institutions that they have agreed to respect.

Add in the fact that the Imperials are using the Treaty to manipulate the Great Houses to their own advantage and to the disadvantage of the majority of the Great Houses, plus via deniability re the East empire Company they have been stealing resources to which they have no true title and there is plenty of reasonable cause for dunmer to feel agrieved.

I find it very strange to hear players siding so totally with the Imperials as they were in fact a cause of so many of the problems in Morrwind - especially when the players themselves know this perfectly well as they have joined all the factions and know how things are connected up.
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no_excuse
 
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Post » Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:14 am

OP - I am not sure why you are calling Indoril xenophobic. The history seems to be that they simply refused to accept being conquered = pride. There may have been something about their hating outlanders but in my experience the Hlaalu themselves actually seemed to have a core of dissent towards the embracing of things Imperial - remember the Count's brother and his connection with Dagoth Ur.

The other House that was strongly resistant was Telvanni - but that was simply a question of whether they deemed you accomplished enough to be considered worthy to join them.

Where Dres might stand I have no idea - though they are actually said to be the most traditional house, they are also said to have vampires in their upper ranks, which is totally contrary to known dunmer tradition.

However looking at the political situation the Imperials invaded Morrowind but did not conquer it. and yet they are still attempting to undermine the dunmer institutions that they have agreed to respect.

Add in the fact that the Imperials are using the Treaty to manipulate the Great Houses to their own advantage and to the disadvantage of the majority of the Great Houses, plus via deniability re the East empire Company they have been stealing resources to which they have no true title and there is plenty of reasonable cause for dunmer to feel agrieved.

I find it very strange to hear players siding so totally with the Imperials as they were in fact a cause of so many of the problems in Morrwind - especially when the players themselves know this perfectly well as they have joined all the factions and know how things are connected up.


well ive seen some sources say they were quite xenofobic and that wanted to get rid of all outlanders. hlaanu if im not wrong really liked imperial ocupation and treaty as they embrace free economic trade and are an economy house.
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Cool Man Sam
 
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Post » Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:59 pm

well ive seen some sources say they were quite xenofobic and that wanted to get rid of all outlanders. hlaanu if im not wrong really liked imperial ocupation and treaty as they embrace free economic trade and are an economy house.


Though House Hlaalu has the reputation of being the most Imperialized House, they're also the House that runs the Camonna Tong. You know - the all-Dunmer, xenophobic local crime ring? The one that hates all outlanders?

So yeah, its a little bit more complicated than you're makin' it sound.
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Rachael
 
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Post » Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:57 pm

Though House Hlaalu has the reputation of being the most Imperialized House, they're also the House that runs the Camonna Tong. You know - the all-Dunmer, xenophobic local crime ring? The one that hates all outlanders?

So yeah, its a little bit more complicated than you're makin' it sound.


More like the Cammona Tong runs them. More like they just want more money.
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Connie Thomas
 
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Post » Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:33 am

When you think about it it's likely that all the Houses are split internally to some extent. The fact that Duke Dren's little brother appears to have been ('pologies but I sort of removed him from the equation) at the heart of the most corrupt resistance against Imperialisation is no surprise, and the sister by contrast is rescuing slaves contrary to Imperial policy in Morrowind is a pretty good indicator that Hlaalu is even more fractured than other factions. The guys at the heart of Hlaalu planning and power are riding the gravy train all the way - but those on the periphery are looking for the first chance to bring them down by any means, and that includes revolt against the Empire that is filling the pockets of the big boys and impoverishing the Province as a whole. Hell, Dren's own brother would happily have destroyed Hllalu and put Dagoth into power.

That whole aspect of the equation sorta drives you into the Imperial camp - damn subtle those Imperial proagandists, eh? But look at the other side - Redoran, Indoril, and even Telvanni along with the Ashlanders have something healthier going for them - if only they would wake up and start defending their rights as a group. It's that lack of action on their part that allowed the Imperials the toehold that is destroying Morrowind forever - and that is probably part of what drove Dagoth Ur to the extremes that he chose.

The Commona Tong is something of an anomally as is the Morag Tong - basically note that Vivec is a thief and he claims to replace Mephala - daedric Prince associated with assassination and plots. A funny thought there, but what if Vivec (the Half Chimer) was a secret supporter of the Mythic Dawn? One way to assassinate the Emperor and all his heirs and throw the Empire into turmoil without taking the blame and it would fit in with Vivec's support of the Nerevarine who freed the Heart and therefore left the Red Tower without it's stone.
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Hannah Whitlock
 
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Post » Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:12 am

A funny thought there, but what if Vivec (the Half Chimer) was a secret supporter of the Mythic Dawn? One way to assassinate the Emperor and all his heirs and throw the Empire into turmoil without taking the blame and it would fit in with Vivec's support of the Nerevarine who freed the Heart and therefore left the Red Tower without it's stone.


I don?t think so... I feel that Vivec?s agenda is more related to the Loveletter
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Killah Bee
 
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Post » Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:55 am

And the Trial? - removal of Dagoth Ur assures his future and makes way for Azura's competition, Dagon. So he assists Azura's champion first thereby ensuring his future is not encumbered by the Dagoths and in so doing removes a Tower from play. Then he removes Azura from the picture via the Trial and Dagon takes out another Tower - assuming Azura is actually sympathetic to man and merkind.

Do you know if there is a date for The Trial? Was it just before the Oblivion Crisis?

Just looking forward here to what might be needed for Vivec to achieve his future aims ...
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chinadoll
 
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Post » Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:48 am

Do you know if there is a date for The Trial? Was it just before the Oblivion Crisis?

Just looking forward here to what might be needed for Vivec to achieve his future aims ...


Well, the last events of the trial took place during Azura?s day of summoning (don?t remember the date), so there?s your date... wich year precisely? I do not know, my guess is it was the year prior to the Oblivion Crisis
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FLYBOYLEAK
 
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