I don't feel armor skills are very necessary at all. From a realism standpoint, they make no sense (you do not "harden" your armor by getting "better" at it). From a roleplay standpoint, they're irrelevant. If you want to play a character that wears a certain type, you just equip that type. Excepting boring and cheesy exploitation (standing around letting weak enemies attack you) you won't really be any better or worse at it than any other character who enters/avoids combat, since it raises automatically outside your control. From a gameplay standpoint, they're superfluous. It universally raises all armor of that class. Weak armor gets stronger, but so does strong armor, and strong armor is still stronger. What, exactly, is the point? You still put on better armor to raise your defense. Would it really even change anything to have no armor skills at all? It's like having a skill that raises hitpoints, but to get experience in it you have to gain levels. Except we already gain hitpoints with level and there's no need.

This is especially true if combat becomes a deadlier affair, as I'd prefer. Note that I am not promoting the removal of more skills in general, quite the contrary, but this isn't the place to get into my own skill set or the ones relevant to armor. When it comes to removing unnecessary clutter, though, I see little need for armor skills. With deadlier combat, fights are more about not getting hit, than about how many times you can withstand being repeatedly stabbed in the chest. Armor should be about preventing damage, not reducing it; what kind of crappy plate gets punctured by a blade every single time and just makes you less wounded? This would further deflate armor skills because protection would be less about defense scores. You can further expand this for extra variety. Plate might be highly resistant to lighter weapons like daggers, leather doesn't impede dodging skills, ebony is hard and damages lesser materials, chainmail is strong against slashing but weaker against piercing, etc. While some armor would be better than others, the character type and situation would greatly change what's ideal, instead of every character winding up with the same "best" equipment and looking identical to each other.

A thought regarding item stacking. Say you've got all the squares for equipment slots and such, and can equip two things to each (or most): one armor item, and one non-armor item. Shirt and briastplate, gloves and gauntlets, pants and greaves, head accessory and helmet, etcetera. You have the picture icon for the item in the slot, and in the top right, a shrunken down thumbnail version of the other item in that slot. You can click the smaller image to swap them, giving the larger one priority and wearing it on top of the other. Each slot could be thus fiddled with separately and you could mix and match as you please. Items that warrant more options could put them in another corner; hood up/down, helmet open/closed. Robes would probably need their own slot instead of just being a torso item, since they cover everything. Equipping a robe would add an extra priority option to each relevant slot, for if you want to mix it up like having the chest armor over the robe but the lower robe covering your legs. The robe slot itself could have capacity for two items, a robe that has the previous options, and a secondary item that always goes over everything, like a cloak or cape. Hopefully I explained that well enough to make a mental image...not every item could have a priority swap, of course, but it would be a system that lets you pretty easily customize armor and clothing appearance. With equipment based on its individual abilities instead of a universal defense stat, it would also give you further freedom instead of everyone ending up with the same all daedric or mishmash of artifacts.

But armor skill desides wether or not their hit lands or if you cna sucsessfully get it to bounce off.

I liked the variety of armor in MW, and the ability to wear it over clothing, and wear robes over the armor as well.

The actual classifications of L/M/H were no big deal, though. It would make a lot more sense to have one big continuum from light to heavy, with various balances of strength, durability, cost, and weight for the different materials. One overall Armor skill should be sufficent, possibly with a "Dodge" skill which would be more effective with less armor weight, and a "Block" skill for those who rely more on heavier protection. In OB, the linear progression in each class from weakest to strongest as the game went on was unrealistic and annoying. In MW, my characters generally used what suited them, not always what gave the "best" stats, and there were several "interesting" choices besides the normal ones. In OB, I felt like I had to play the "rat race" thing just to stay in place, going from one type to another as each almost completely replaced the other in the game world in turn.

Making it harder and/or more expensive to repair the rarer and more exotic forms of armor (and weapons) would limit their usefulness to a low-level character. That way, they could exist in the game world from day one (unlike in OB, where they suddenly appeared as you reached certain levels), without the cheezy situation in Morrowind where your Level 1 character could race straight for a suit of Glass or Deadric armor, right off the boat. With higher repair difficulties and costs for maintaining such materials, it wouldn't do you all that much good, at least for long.

I want it to be more like Morrowinds when it comes to looks, Oblivion had a very Bland sense of fashion. Most armors in Oblivion look the same with different things pasted to them. Morrowind's armor seemed much more thought out. Don't even get me started on the Clothing. I have said it more than once before and I'll say it again, Oblivion is a dumbed down RPG.

Why do I get a feeling that for some people the only reason they want Morrowind's per-piece fashion extravaganza is just so that they can have sixteen or so things to throw enchantments on instead of 10 as in Oblivion? I bet if Bethesda announced they were using a completily different system of enchantment where it was possible to compound and amplify enchantments up to artifact levels you'd see a considerable drop-off of people who give a darn that pauldrons aren't seperate from cuirasses or that you can't wear gloves from two different pairs or that you can't wear a big cumbersome robe over your hulking suit of plate mail while also wearing your Sundas best under that.

Actually, I really can't see that being a huge reason. Sure, maybe a few power-gamer type players would like it for such a reason, but I've a feeling most of us just want the customization back.

I don't want all of the clothing slots for Enchantmen, I want it for customization, RPGs have always been abotu customization.

Not me. Personally, I never enchanted anything in Morrowind. In fact, I don't think I ever used non-artifact enchanted items, and then only when it fit my character.

I did, however, in Oblivion because I felt like I had to in order to keep up in the world, just like how I almost always had to trade out armors every 5 or 6 levels, whether I wanted to or not. If Oblivion's wacky leveling is removed, I don't think all that many people will care about the extra enchantment slots, besides the power gamers.

I've got an argonian mage that refuses to wear armor, and only wears clothing. I've also made a few warrior types that mixed and matched different armor types to different pieces. My favorite, and favorite aesthetically pleasing, warrior was a guy who didn't wear chest pieces (even clothing), along armor on his left arm and shoulder.

if you havnt read this you should. this would be a very good system to impliment. although i feel there should still be armor skills because if you think about it you do have to train to be good in different types of armor. im not saying increasing your armor skill should increase the defense bonuses but it should decrease the penalties from wearing armor. i mean if a man has never worn armor in his life and suddenly put on a 50 pound briastplate dont you think he would have trouble manuvering and figting in it. I this we should change what armor skills do and impliment that into wat this guy was saying.

o and sorry posting so quickly but morrowinds customization was a lot better and i wish the next game will go back to all the armor variety that was in morrowind. because i also used to make a warrior in morrowind with no chest plate and only armor on his left shoulder and arm because it looked like a bad ass gladiator. yes it will open up more enchantment slots but it adds so much for custimization.

also there should e different types of armor with the same armor rating. I dont like how in oblivion daedric or glass are the best you will get there should be a couple types of armor that have the same rating so you can choose your aesthetics without having to take an armor penalty

Uh, not really.
The reason most people loved the 16 slot style armor system is because it adds more depth to your character, enchantments be damned. Half of the slots in Morrowind, pauldrons, legs, etc, were terrible for enchanting anyway. OH LAWD +3 STRENGTH ON DEADRIC GREAVES YAY. Not really.
It adds more complexity, it adds more content, essentially, and it adds more customization. Who doesn't want that?

While you do have to learn how to properly put on armor, it's not something that can significantly improve with training; tightening those straps to just the right level isn't going to help you while being stabbed in the face.

To clarify, though, by "no armor skills" I particularly meant the current ones that make you literally better at being armored. In the skill set I came up with one of the skill trees is Evasion, including Evasion: Armored. Armor would generally be used to avoid damage in the first place, as mentioned before, and so would dodging. Someone in light armor has fewer movement penalties and can more easily dodge attacks, while the person in heavy armor can't dance back and forth but is much less likely to be injured by a direct attack. While the guy in full daedric still wouldn't be jumping and rolling like a thief in leather, the Evasion: Armored skill would gradually reduce penalties and improve "partial dodging," something a skilled fighter would need to be good at. Instead of swerving out of the way, they turn with the strike, so that a direct stab instead screeches across the side of the armor. It's a similar idea to what you do with shields in a more realistic fight; you don't just block strikes so they bounce hard off the shield, you redirect them, so that the person falls into their own momentum and is left open. The person skilled with armor wouldn't so much take less damage from a direct hit as make those hits even less likely to happen.

Yeah, one of the things I prefer in Morrowind to Oblivion is the armor system

Seperate pauldrons and such, more weight classes, as has been mentioned perhaps by material? (cloth, mail, plate)

Cloth can be pierced by all weapons (but is obviously much lighter in general)
Chainmail, scalemail, ringmail ect. gives the best protection against bladed weapons (as it simply cannot be pierced) but the wearer is somewhat at threat of blunt trauma from maces and such
Plate armor offers heavy protection against everything, apart from blunt trauma and well placed blades

Ok I'm getting too much into describing a new combat system here and I don't know that much about realistic armor. On top of all this though you'd have to classify the vanilla armors under each category. Whilst it may not be listed (mail armor, for example, may not be a class, and some lighter ringmail armors may be classified under light armor, scalemail under medium and the heavier chainmail under heavy. The same weight classification across armor type would be similair with something like Mithrill - Elven - Daedric all being plate but largely different weight)

I forgot what I was talking about

I do nto know why you have that feeling, but I think it is wrong. I never ever enchanted an item (except for training and in this case i never wore taht item afterwards). I want more slots, not only more than Oblivion gave us, but even more than then the number in Morrowind. The reason is not powerplaying on my part, but the fact that I want diversity, customizations and richness in choices. I do not like the fact that pauldrons are not separated, even though I never enchanted a pauldron, I hate the fact that I cannot hide my armour under my robe even though neither the armour nor the robes bear enchantment, I wish to have a left and right glove not to enchant them separately, but to be able to use one and not the other and I do nto understand why I cannot have clothes under the armour, even though i do not care if it is or is not enchanted.
Looking on the posts here, I guess that if you bet on that you would loose.

Morrowind Morrowind Morrowind style

I know it's harder to develop but it's worth it

I think you've got a few things backward. Chainmail and other "flexible" armors were actually pretty good at distributing blunt trauma, especially with a padded "gambeson" or leather jerkin underneath. A hit would force one ring or scale against the row behind it, effectively spreading the energy out over a larger area. Plate armor, on the other hand, was vulnerable to creasing and denting, which made it unusable, which is why "hammers" were used against armored opponents. Chain and scale were vulnerable to piercing weapons, as a good thrust would split the rings or slip between or under the scales. Plate, on the other hand, tended to cause piercing weapons to skid off one way or the other. Most longswords were sharp on one edge, blunt on the other. The blunt edge was used to crease armor, without notching the blade in the process, while the sharp edge was effective against unarmored or soft-armored opponents.

I once had the pleasure of trying on a reproduction of Roman banded armor (lorica segmentata). At one point, another SCA member gave the suit a solid hit with a rattan "sword", and I really couldn't tell where it was hit, only that it was "on that side, more or less". The band that was hit distributed most of the force to the band partially under it, which in turn transferred part of that, and so on. A piecrcing weapon, on the other hand, could have been driven under one the bands. I've also worn chain mail, which does essentially the same thing to a lesser degree. It really doesn't take all that much force to break an individual ring and penetrate the armor with a sharp object, though. It won't stop an arrow, but it'll take most of the force out of it.

As to the earlier post about MW players dumping enchantments onto every last piece of armor and clothing, I really don't believe that's the case for 95% of those who requested the return to more clothing/armor/robes options. I played ONE character who enchanted absolutely everything on sheer principle, but he could just as easily have carried 20 rings of various types and used them as needed (come to think of it, he did that, too). Most of my characters either didn't enchant their armor or clothing items at all, or else only one or two pieces at most. Many of them carried a variety of enchanted rings and amulets (mostly "standard", rather than custom enchantments), and some mix of enchanted and mundane weapons.

I too, really really really really hope they bring back MW's equipment system .. I was seriously disapointed when i put on a robe and the only other armor piece i coudl equip was a bloody helmet... svcked... I've never talked to anyone who prefers OB's equip system, so im prayin to Allah that Beth will listen to their fans and bring back the system we all love...

Anyway, as far as the actual system goes, I never honestly used medium armor is MW... so i wouldn't mind it not returning.. Light and heavy is fine.. (I do hope for short / long blade tho)..

Also to the guy who claimed ppl only want extra pieces of gear to enchant it, I'll be the 1000th person to tell you this, but I feel this opinion needs to be voiced loud and clear; No we don't want it to be uber powerful.. RPG's are about customizing your character, a big part of that is the gear.. therefore it's [censored]in awesome to be wearing cloth under armor and robe over it all... furthermore it's cool for RP to do "gladiator style" and only wear armor on one arm

Quite a few of my characters have enchanted every piece of several sets of armour. I'm a bit obsessive about things like that but given the enchantment points system in MW it was pretty much a waste of a filled GSG to enchant your pauldrons. I think the reason why Oblivion had to cut down the number of enchantment slots was because all enchanted items could hold equally powerful enchantments. I'd like to see a return of more item slots and a return of enchantment points.

So basicly you'd love MW's system back aswell?

With a caveat
Its a game, things have to be balanced
More enchantment slots means individual enchantments have to be weaker, but yes, it was more interesting in MW

I would quite like(i know i always compare to games) some halo ish style thingy in multiplayer(i mean the shape and all that)

Maybe a bit OTT:


CHOSE:
Leather pauldron:big-more def more wieght
med-med-med
light-less-less ETC.
and this would customize your apearance,
aswell as the ability to dye,AKA:different colour armours,leather armour+blood of the noble=blue leather
+blood-red +daffodil=yellow. ANd then you can combine these. EXAMPLE

yello+blue=green=extra blue=cyan
so forth

I'll add my voice to the chorus that wants something closer to Morrowind's armor system, although with perhaps a few tweaks.

For starters, dump the Light, Medium, and Heavy Armor classifications, and replace it with Hide, Mail, and Plate Armor skills; redistribute armors amongst the new skills accordingly.

As for armor/clothing slots, I'd go with this:

2 rings, 1 amulet

maybe a belt and a cloak

head
pauldron (l/r)
glove (l/r)
legs
boots
chest (inner)
chest (outer)

The inner chest slot would be for shirts and tunics, and the outer slot would be for tabards, coats, and vests. Armor cuirasses and robes can be equipped in either slot (although, only one cuirass equipped at a time), so you can do robe-over-armor, or armor-over-robe, or mixing them with various clothing pieces. This gives the player a lot of options, but also keeps the pure mage and the pure warrior closer in the number of equipment pieces they have equipped.

I proposed a mod a while back that would change oblivion's armor system, it would also be good for TES V. It would have has various ranks/styles available for each material of armor. This would allow further mix n' match type customization without the horrible multi-colored idiot look.

On another note; what if there was an armor smithing editor with an interface similar to that of Spore... maybe.

This

Also like I said "I know little about middle age armor" so hanks for patching the holes in my logic

As for enchanting all pieces of armor... I'm not sure. It balances out in a way I think. I largely play warriors and enchanting is rare to me until the highest level of sigil stones are obtained (I forget the name)

So, it really is tough for full melee characters to enchant armor well without passing some kind of trial first (closing a high level Oblivion gate) whereas a mage whose dump stats won't me combat related (they'll be raising intelligence and willpoer over strength and endurance) will have an easier time enchanting

It kinda balances. I think