I wouldn't be surprised if Lyon's BoS asked for some sort of compensation for saving the wasteland. And I imagine they are much more intimidating without gameplay restrictions. And every settlement in DC svcks, so they could build up some territory rather quickly. Then I would expect them to take things rather slowly and in 10 years time have some territory up to Philadelphia and Fallout 4 can be there.

I can see Lyons guys being the "Knights" that protects any fledgling government that attempts to unify the DC wasteland, but I can't see them actively running things. I just never got that impression from anyone under Lyons (maybe Sarah) that the Brotherhood should be controlling things.

I'm a big fan of the BoS but I think its time they left the spotlight again and became a minor faction, unless, like several other people said it was the MWBoS continuing on from one of the endings to tactics. And I think it would be interesting to see how the legion deals with the BoS. And I would still love to see the MLA.

I see Rivet City expanding, not Lyon's BoS. Rivet City has scientists, a well-fortified boat, a form of government, fresh food and by the end of Fallout 3, Enclave technology. If a group in the Capital Wasteland formed a country, Rivet City would be the one to do it.

Lyon's BoS might not like it if Rivet City decides to take the Purifier...

Capital Union FOREVAH!

I know, I know....wishful thinking on my part. But hey, a girl can dream, right?

It's amazing you managed to completely misunderstand two comments with just one statement. Saying Fallout 3 is a copy of 1 and 2 just because it has super mutants and BoS is ridiculous. It's canon material and like it or not Super Mutants and BoS are a big part of Fallout lore. The next game doesn't have to be about them, but if it includes them, it doesn't mean the game is a copy and paste from previous games.

I actually didn't say anything about Fallout 3, but if you insist. The main enemies of Fallout 1 were Super Mutants and the main enemy of Fallout 2 was the Enclave. The two main enemies of Fallout 3 are super mutants and the Enclave, this is one of the main reasons why Fallout 3 is a copy and paste Fallout.

Like I said, super mutants and the Brotherhood are not what make Fallout what it is and I also never said that I didn't want them in the next game. I also never said that having super mutants and the Brotherhood makes a Fallout a copy and pastes version of the previous one. New Vegas had both of them, the NCR, the Followers and a bit of the Enclave, but it still managed to be unique. I just said that how much they are involved, like in New Vegas, should be severely downgraded.

Not just because the two main enemies who were both assumed to be either completely dead or scattered in the wasteland with no way of reproduction show up on the other side of the country to be main enemies again, along with the Brotherhood. It's also that the story revolves around saving people with water (Fallout 1) and finding a GECK to get the job done (Fallout 2). Having do go out in the world to look for dear old papa is a new element though, but the main factions and the story is still pretty copy-pasted from Fallout 1 and Fallout 2.

I think you misunderstood the focus of my original point. My original comment was to someone else, not you. If you want to say Fallout 3 is a copy and paste job due to plot, sure. I can see that. But to say it's a copy and paste job simply because it has reoccurring elements within the Fallout Universe is insane. That's like saying the DC universe shouldn't have Batman or Superman in it. That was my point and that's what the other person said.


And I never said Super Mutants and BoS are the only things that what make a Fallout game what it is. I also never said F3 wasn't a copy and paste job because of it's plot elements. I was only, and always, focused on the appearance and reoccurring elements being featured in games.


Pretty much ditto everything I just said applies here. You raise absolutely valid points, but I never said F3 didn't feel like copy and paste job from 1 and 2. My argument was that including reoccurring elements in games doesn't automatically make it a copy-paste job. Now, how you use those elements can certainly make it that so.

Was your original comment directed at me?


Was it this post? cause I left it alone because my sarcasm ditector is off again.

I was talking to Wretch about how he wanted Fallout 4 to be another copy and paste game like Fallout 3 was. I am not saying that just having reoccurring elements makes it a copy and paste game.

What wretch wanted was yet another FEV location with yet another Master like person with a army of super mutants. That is copy and pasted right out of Fallout. How is that new?

Fallout 3 is copy and paste game.

Fallout: Leave Vault 13, find waterchip to get clean water and destroy the Master, can't get back into Vault 13.

Fallout 2: Leave Arroyo to find a GECK to save Arroyo and destroy the Enclave.

Fallout 3: Leave Vault 101 to find Dad, get a GECK to get clean water, fight super mutants, destroy the Enclave, can't get back into Vault 101.

All I was saying is lets not copy the story/plot of previous games. Lets think of something new.

The DC Universe anology doesn't apply here. Batman and Superman comics are all about their own adventures, the Brotherhood and the super mutants aren't the Batman and Superman of the Fallout universe. What Styles said is that he wanted new ideas in the Fallout universe, not more copy and paste games.

What I said about the copy and paste feel was entirely about the plot. Fallout 1's major enemies were the super mutants, Fallout 2's major enemy was the Enclave and Fallout 3's major enemies were the super mutants and the Enclave. Fallout 3 was Bethesda grinding up Fallout 1 and 2 together and it predictably turned out to be a mess.

Hippies.

BOS wants to reclaim tech..
Hippies want the world to revert back to doing things naturally.

Now thats a conflict!

"It's time for a good old-fashioned hippie ass-whomping!" -Chief Wiggum

Brotherhood are almost dead, i wouldnt count on them fighting a MAJOR war like in previous games. Even though their numbers in the midwest and so on are unconfirmed, they are doing bad cause of the NCR.

DAMN I MISS THOSE TECH LOVING [censored]S

So, what is the point of playing a rpg in a make believe world, where every group is dead? Enclave, dead. BoS, dead. CWBoS, small(how you know this fact is mind boggling seeing how like the MWBoS they recruit..oh wait, you don't), MWBoS, okay!

Frankly sometimes new factions can totally screw up a story more than old ones. Then sometimes you get poor new factions. Legion was just...not stellar. Mainly, imo, because there was no Legion follower. Fumble.

Killing off groups for the sake of it is just as craptastic writing as anything else.

Yep, 5 lines of dialog saying that a group dead or some other garbage is just that, garbage. I love FONV as a game, but great writing or immersive awesome story it is not.

Then you say you want MLA as the "main enemy". Well MLA is darn close to being Masters Army part 2. And why be main enemy? If FONV taught anything it is to choose side as the player desires.

Btw for all you know the MWBoS are nothing more than sun bleached bones.

To be fair Fallout 2's plot wasn't very original compared to the first one.

Find plot device, return it to home. Get there, and bad news. Go fight the main bad guys, and there mega hard boss. Blow up place with nuke. The End.

Indeed, and neither is NV. Both are fun, but...

The Enclave are in ruins because they were defeated three times, the Brotherhood are dying out so I have no idea how they could be a significant faction unless Bethesda does another magical upgrade and Lyon's Brotherhood are one chapter that are stretched thin from trying to protect the DC area from everything. Bringing any of them back in any major role would be ridiculous, but I wouldn't put it past Bethesda.

You make it sound as if the writers of Fallout just killed off the Enclave instead of having them be the major enemies of two games, just killed off the Brotherhood rather then having them in every single Fallout with varying power in each one.

I'm sorry that you didn't like the Legion and thought that New Vegas' writing disagree. I personally disagree and I would love to see the Legion in the next Fallout, which I hope will be done by Bethesda.

If Lyon's ever loses control of his group, they could easily do something like the legion and just swallow thousands of miles in a couple decades. Those people are rather vicious once you get past the couple of justice preaching ones. And thinking of the state of things in the CW some simple propaganda could get many of the undesirables in the Capital Wasteland to join the BoS. And if they don't they are easily powerful enough to take any of those settlements in the CW. And after cleaning up the area it wouldn't be surprising to see people flocking to the BoS there.

Lyon's BoS could easily be brought back as some kind of major faction. It doesn't even require some kind of incredible writing.

I want to see them come back, but not just as another BoS, but more defined like they tried to make themselves different.

I think with the BoS it definately boils down to how it is written.

Everyone says they're dying out because they have to adhere to the codex.
MWBoS recrtuit.
Lyons' helps the locals.
There are two in game examples that show they aren't set in stone. Even if you dont like them- it is explained in game what happened and how they differ from the original BoS. They acknowledge that they are essentially hybrids of that faction.

I think it is important to ask if factions are allowed to evolve or not.
To be sure if you don't change you die out.. What goes up must come down, so keep going up if you don't want to come down (all else is stagnation).
Reffering to the BoS Codex not allowing them to recruit from the ouside, I think it would do good to remember that BoS started out as soldiers for the US Army; which they took an oath for when they joined. They broke that oath and abandoned that post due to the circumstances they found themselves in at Mariposa.

We can't say that BoS can't change. Whether they should or not is all preference.
Throw in a pinch of "what's in a name?" and no factions are set in stone.

I can't think of any real work "faction" that has remained unchanged throughout history. can you?

P.S. I have no idea whats up with the italics in this post; not checked and not tagged

Losing a battle is rough, but it by no means exterminates anyone. Human beings have a tremendous ability to adapt and survive.

In a world like Fallout, where technically, the world is a combo of 19th century and hi-tech.

Who has the tech? Serious advantage. Who has the ONLY air force? Serious advantage.

FONV aggravated me because the tactics involved were horid.

NCR has way too extended logistics. Legion flanks, game over, and they already control a beachhead.

BoS could attack. Gannon took down Helios solo while I ate sugar bombs and watched.

Is there any settlement in fo 1, 2, 3, or NV who could withstand an attack by 6 guys in power armor? How about 12? 12 and a vertibird?

I can think of two. NCR can be jacked hard but actually losing territory requires a occupied force, and the boomers who are dug in with artillery.

Other than that, just about any community could be wiped out or taken over. The MWBoS and CWBoS adapted to survive. So any faction, especially the ones with better tech, can adapt to survive and grow.

As it is as far as NV goes, I was disappointed that you couldn't lead the BoS into battle against the NCR, because that could be a very viable option. In fact the BoS quests pretty much conclude that they could, then it ends. Meh.

How did the Legion screw up any part of New Vegas' story? How is it a poor faction? More importantly how would subbing in an old faction to take the place of the Legion not have been a worse move in every way?


Who is advocating groups being killed off for the sake of it?


What are you talking about?


The hell? Beyond both of them including Super Mutants they're nothing alike as far as we know.

The CWBoS are very small compared to the Original Brotherhood. The MWBoS are unknown in size but when we last saw them they were big and yes they do recruit, its made very clear in the game. I also didn't say the Original BoS are dead, but they are dying out and don't seem to want to change.

New Factions are good because it changes things up. I also don't want to play the same game over and over again. I don't get why people want the same old factions, with the same old stories just set in a new location. I really don't see the appeal in that.

I am not saying there can't be older factions like NCR, Caesar's Legion, Midwesten Brotherhood, ect but there should be alot of new factions IMO.


Main guys against the MWBoS but not the focus of the game. I didn't say the game should force us to side with them or anyone else. Also they aren't like the Master's army at all. For one the Masters army is made up of nothing but Super Mutants and was controlled by the Master. Second the MLA is a group made up of humans, ghouls, super mutants and other mutants that were betrayed by the MWBoS.

Wow they are just like the Master's Army, both are armies made up of mutants, they are totally the same! NCR and the Legion, both human armies they are also the same


I don't believe I have ever said that isn't a possibility.

Fallout 2 isn't completely copying Fallout.

Whereas Fallout 3 copies the main enemies, main plot devices and then puts them together in DC.

Amen, brother, Amen.

That's what I told many people as well in other forums. They never get it. That's why MWBoS and CWBoS are much more appealing to me. Adapting to survive, now THAT is what Fallout is about. Humanity pushing forward against all odds. A lot of scraps and bumps along the way but that is what creates experience.

I didn't mind that Lyon's BoS was in DC. It was explained. It wasn't explained perfectly but it was explained as well as the FEV. The Enclave having such a full force on the other hand was difficult to swallow.

I think the main reason why most people complained is that the whole structure of Fallout 3 was weak (to those who played the originals). The story, the writing and the characters. There were a few exceptions here and there but mostly it was weak. Then to add more salt to the wound the whole Fallout experience that was given in the first two games was diluted or non-existent in FO3.

Being forced to join the BoS to finish the game didn't help either.

I really want Fallout 4 to mention CWBoS. I would also like it if they are having troubles (I want it to be Rivet City ).

BoS Enemies:

MWBoS = Mutant Liberation Army

CWBoS = Rivet City

I have never said same old story. New story, some new factions.

And yes, many here act like a faction is dead or dying because a group is sitting in a bunker, for example Mojave and West Coast BoS.

As far as Legion in Vegas being poorly done, your contact with them is very limited until you kill Benny, and there is no legion follower, so for me, it becomes tough to get into that faction, and for a war like tribe their tactics are awful.

It what? Four years since the first battle? And these guys haven't figured out they can flank the NCR and wipe them out?

These guys would be DESTROYED by the BoS or Enclave.

Superior military training(BoS/Enclave) + superior tech generally = victory.

The NCR is no better. For crying out loud, the BoS could send two squads. One to Helios and another to the mojave outpost and take them with ease. Now you have recaputed Helios, and cut off NCR suplies and could in fact ambush the next supply shipment and take it for yourself.

What would the NCR do? Nothing. Pull troops to counter attack and Legion would surely attack, and probably would/should anyway.

Like I said, love the game, but the strategy going on is ugg.

And also, I said MLA is like Master Army 2. Not identical. Just in the same ball park of another mutant army.

My point with that is it not easy to cone up with some original fresh faction. Far as I'm concerned the MLA is no different than a independent Enclave group, or a new raider or slaver faction. Similar to old factions with a twist, shaken and served over ice.

It is new story that is most important, that creates new lire while connecting to the old. Frankly, a FO game with entirely new factions and none of the old, would svck.

Oh and the 5 lines of dialog that people use to write off factions are the Enclave defeat at Navarro and this WCBoS defeat by NCR. Stuff that boggles my mind cuz from what I see of NCR, they are renobs.