Hey everyone,

I'm a long time Fallout fan that's never dipped into the Elder Scrolls franchise. Steam just recently had a killer sale on Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim. I was able to get all three of them for around $27, and I couldn't turn it down.

So I'm wondering...should I play Morrowind and Oblivion prior to playing Skyrim?

Are the stories sequential, or are they somewhat scattered? In Fallout the stories aren't directly sequential. You can play Fallout 4 without having played Fallout 1, 2, 3, or New Vegas and you won't really be confused by much in the story line as a result of not playing the earlier games. You're missing out on some background lore and such, but it's not like one picks up where the other left off or anything like that. Is this basically the case with the Elder Scrolls series? Or is there more of a direct correlation between the plots?

If I play Skyrim first and then go back to Morrowind and Oblivion, are the comparatively more primitive mechanics and graphics going to make them less appealing? I know there are plenty of people still avidly playing Morrowind, and I've seen some of the upgrades that graphical mods can bring to the game, so I'm not overly worried about this point.

I might not start them for a little while since I'm still thoroughly engrossed in Fallout 4, but I'm really looking forward to checking them out. Any input would be appreciated.

I'd play them in order but then I had the luxury of playing them as they were released.

I'd say play them before.

Each is a totally separate story but the events of previous games are referred to.

It probably comes down to how bothered you are by dated graphics. Mods can help with that since you're on pc.

it really depends on what your looking for in a game..



the games are not really direct sequels to one another, and each is its own self contained story that you really don't have to play the earlier ones to understand.. however, looking at them from a big picture viewpoint you will find they do have a vague "overarching plot" (for an example, while Arena all the way up to Oblivion were each their own self contained story, we see that it has an overarching plot of the struggles of the Septim Dynasty)



Morrowind is a great game, you may want to start with it.. depends if your a fan of diceroll combat.. since I have been playing RPGs for decades diceroll combat doesn't bother me (since when i started, there really wasn't anything else), but I know alot of younger gamers do not seem to like it..

This is basically the case. Prior knowledge of former games is not needed. There are some spoilers to the earlier game plots, but I don't think there is really enough to subtract from the enjoyment of those earlier games.

A lot of people do find it difficult to go back to Oblivion's butter face character gen or Morrowind's kinda crappy combat system, but you can either get used to either or both can be easily solved by 1 or 2 mods. http://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/44676/? Graphics isn't a big hurdle either where mods are concerned.

This in particular is really good advice. Morrowind is by far my favorite of the series but it will definitely seem dated by people used to today's standards for games. If you can overlook it's age, Morrowind is definitely what you should start with.

I'd start from the earliest.

No.

But the gameplay of Morrowind takes patience and understanding. Unlike Skyrim, where anyone can quickly learn and understand how everything works.


That makes Morrowind a frustrating place to start if you just want to instantly be a powerful adventurer saving the world.

Oblivion and Skyrim are similar enough in gameplay that nothing will surprise you with their differences.


And since when does Morrowind have "primitive" mechanics? Besides the lack of havok physics, it's dice-roll system is far more complex than Skyrim.

Thanks for the advice, everyone. Some really helpful input here.

As far as dice roll combat is concerned, it doesn't really bother me. I prefer more modern combat mechanics, but I was also gaming back in the day when there really wasn't anything else. I wouldn't really consider that to be much an inhibiting factor for me personally.

Regarding the graphics, I'm sure Morrowind and Oblivion look quite dated by now. I'll definitely be seeking out some graphics mods for them. The character overhaul linked above looks really nice. I bookmarked that one to refer back to later. I've seen some comparisons of vanilla graphics versus modded graphics for both Morrowind and Oblivion, and the difference in the graphics can be quite drastic from what I've seen. I'll likely post another thread at some point in the mods section, but if anyone has any recommendations here, I'd love to see them.

I'm thinking I'll probably just end up playing them in order. A big part of me wants to play Skyrim first just because of all of the hype around it, but I think I'll be better off watching the graphics and game mechanics improve than I would be by playing Skyrim and then jumping all the way back to Morrowind and being shell shocked by the change lol

Perhaps 'dated' mechanics is a more apt term...lol

I agree with this. It's my opinion that the game mechanics are more primitive in the later games. I think each game after Daggerfall has more primitive game mechanics than the one before it.

When Morrowind was released, it was at the cutting edge of game design - but that was 14 years ago. It has no "physics" to speak of, the AI is very simple, the combat is almost unplayably clunky ... Morrowind is such a great game that I will probably never tire of it, but "primitive" is absolutely the right word to compare it to Skyrim, which benefited from almost a decade of technological improvements. "Mechanics" to almost everyone (else) refers to the combat, physics, AI, that sort of thing - not the diceroll system which (by that logic) would make pen-and-paper games the least primitive of all!

In terms of visuals, I wouldn't even consider playing Morrowind without graphics overhaul mods.

So, especially if you're used to playing Fallout 4 and/or Fallout 3, I'd definitely start with Skyrim first, which would be much more familiar to you in terms of gameplay mechanics and look-and-feel.

After that, try Oblivion (and be especially sure to pick up the Shivering Isles expansion if you didn't get the GOTY version). Being much older, it will feel somewhat clunky but there's plenty to enjoy and the faction quests are really good fun (especially the Dark Brotherhood). The Shivering Isles expansion is much darker in tone, and should definitely appeal to fans of Fallout 3 in terms of gallows humour.

Finally, play Morrowind modded to the max. It is as "essential" in gaming history as KOTOR or any other don't-turn-on-a-PC-without-it classic, and remains one of my top 5 favourite ever games.

I disagree with everything in this quote. To me, "game mechanics" has absolutely nothing to do with physics or AI. This is actually the first time I have ever heard anybody say such a thing.

Game mechanics, to me, primarily refers to the rules by which the game is played. In Morrowind that includes such things as the the class system, the interaction between skills and Attributes, the dice-roll system, the chance for failure, stealth mechanics, guild skill requirements, reputation system, and other features.

I also disagree with your characterization of Morrowind's combat as "almost unbearably clunky." You may find it "unbearably clunky" perhaps, but many of us do not. I prefer it over the simpler, more arcade-like, first-person-shooter-inspired combat found in Oblivion and Skyrim.

And, yes, I do in fact think pen-and-paper roleplaying games had more advanced game mechanics. Those old games were far more intricate than almost any game produced today that I know of. That is not entirely the fault of Bethesda. It's is extremely hard, if not impossible, to replicate the intricate gameplay mechanics of the old pen-and-paper games in a computer environment. Even Bioware, in their classic Infinity engine games, did not quite manage to pull that off.

I will grant that, arguably, Oblivion and Skyrim have more advanced stealth mechanics. But, in regards to every other aspect of game mechanics, I stand by what I wrote in my previous post. Game mechanics have been getting simpler, easier, more stripped-down and streamlined with each installment after Daggerfall.

The only thing I think is outdated, or obsolete about Morrowind are it's graphics and animations. Other than those two issues, I think it's more advanced than Skyrim, and a lot more advanced than Oblivion. And the art style of Morrowind more than compensates for it's shortcomings anyways particularly compared to Oblivion I feel.

You could always try Daggerfall though, I've found it to be quite buggy, and while I liked it's dungeons, I've found it's outdoors elements to be repetitive, and it's cities/NPCs to not be as interesting as Morrowinds. I played it for a while not long ago, but got frustrated I think when my Wagon holding my items bugged out.

I totally agree with that, I think graphical progression is good, but that too much focus on graphics can cause everything else to gradually decay and degrade while the graphics, and only the graphics advance. I've long though that far too often advanced graphics have been a crutch for more simplistic and more predictable games.

For as long as I live, I'm always going to wonder if I ever see a game vast and complex as Daggerfall with Skyrim-Tier graphics. How long until the technology required for such a creation will exist? And how long will it be until someone makes a game like that? 10 Years? 20? 40? 50? 100? Maybe if I live to be 120 I'll see such a game?????

What I am hoping is- at some point graphics will reach an apex point, where they are as realistic as they can ever be... Then once all the mysteries of realistic graphic making have been unraveled, pretty graphics can no longer "carry" future video games, and future video games will no longer be judged upon graphical quality. With the graphics thing reaching it's max point, game developers will be forced to be creative in new ways.

If you want to save what I consider best for last, I'd go Oblivion->Skyrim->Morrowind. If you want to play the imo easiest TES game first, start with Oblivion, if you want it in lore-based order then Morrowind->Oblivion->Skyrim. I personally wish I started with Oblivion, then Skyrim then Morrowind, cause I wouldn't have been disappointed that way. Though I started with Morrowind.

Funnybunny is right, each TES game is so different from the other- especially between Daggerfall and Morrowind, and between Morrowind and the last two TES games, that they almost feel too different to be sequels. KOTOR 2 feels like the sequel to KOTOR 1, but Oblivion to me didn't feel so much like a sequel to Morrowind, and I played all those games to the end. All the complaints about diceroll combat make me feel old. Back during my days diceroll combat was the norm, and it was generally just considered a normal part of the vast majority of RPGs... And now diceroll mechanics without an isometric perspective is considered a bit of a taboo.

Before I played Morrowind I watched my stepfather and mother play Ultima Online some times, and I saw them enter combat, and pretty sure I remembered them missing attacks sometimes, I also played Super Mario RPG before this, and remembered missing attacks too I am pretty sure. Now, Ultima Online having no pausing in combat is more similar to a TES game in that regard, but both are old school RPGs. Way back then my stepfather wouldn't let me play or watch Final Fantasy other than a few tiny combat scenes because of the rating, but it's mechanics AFAIK were similar to Super Mario RPG. So when I played Morrowind for the first time I gladly welcomed it's hit and miss mechanics with open arms.

I watched my parents play old school RPGs with miss mechanics, and then some generations younger than them, it was still the norm, and for me, it wasn't just like a family tradition, and old school RPGs were a major part of my childhood- old school RPGs weren't so much a thing during my parents childhoods, and I looked forward to being able to play more old school RPGs in the future way back then. Now I see a future generation, that commonly considers miss mechanics to be "obsolete" "irritating" and "outdated", and it feels so strange. I'm one of the people who was young enough that old school RPGs existed during my childhood, but at the same time old enough that by the time old school RPGs started vastly changing to the point of being very different from old school RPGs, they were unfamiliar to what I experienced during my childhood.

I had hoped future RPGs would be old school RPGs with just better graphics, and larger worlds, but I feel like that isn't what I got. It just feels strange to grow up with something, that is like a cornerstone of your childhood, then when you grow up, it's then considered obsolete and outdated by a lot of the world around you.

That all said Morrowind is definitely an Old School RPG... And definitely... Unique.

I think Morrowind's biggest issue was the animations being overtly stiff- this being most noticed in combat, and when everyone dies they always fall down exactly the same way. Though imo that's all about graphics.

I think you overstate the difficulty of Morrowind. Back in 2010 when I first played Morrowind after only having played Oblivion before I didn't have any real difficulty playing the first time. When I eventually quit that first character it was because I had lost interest in him and wanted to play as someone else, not because I was having trouble.

And in my experience my characters in Morrowind are much more powerful than in Skyrim. Though that may be because my reflexes and hand eye coordination aren't all that good. I've never managed to get the hang of dual wielding or duel casting, my timing is usually off so the spells usually end up firing separately, and I just get confused trying to use two weapons at once. And I've never managed to wrap my head around the directional attacks in any of the games, Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim. I stopped even trying to figure them out years ago. Fortunately in Morrowind there is an option to just always use the best attack.

And leveling in Skyrim is more stressful for me than in the others because I'm never sure what the proper balance between Health Magicka and Stamina will be for my characters. I'm always worried that I'm not giving myself enough of one of them and thus will end up crippling my character. That is why I hate Skyrim's level up system most of all over all the others. My favorite level up system is the http://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/13879/? mod for Oblivion, precisely because I don't have any choices to make each time I level. Attributes and health magicka and fatigue increase as their related skills increase. I wish Skyrim used that system.

Or maybe you meant more powerful lore wise rather than gameplay wise? But if so then the gameplay really ought to reflect that. Which it doesn't, for me at least. Half of the time bandits seem tougher than me, even at higher levels. Some legendary dragonborn I am if bandits are stronger.

I'd start with Morrowind. But be warned the game is not for everybody, it is much more slow paced than Oblivion and Skyrim. But the game is meant for the player to take their time not rush the game. Also pay attention to what npc's say in Seyda Neen, they offer valuable advice on how to play the game for beginners. The landmass may be smaller than the later games, but the game is huge like all TES games are, filled with tons of content. The biggest complaint for beginners is the dice roll combat. The game depends on character skill not player skill. Also weapons break so get them repaired often. I'd suggest picking a weapon skill you like and making it a major, and use that weapon type as your main. You will find that you hit more frequently. Last but not least FATIGUE. Fatigue is very important, if you run everywhere you skills suffer, you'll miss your hits, your spells will fail often. So just walk and take your time, there are many travel options in the game.

Well I hope I was able to help you decide.

Man, this has me really wanting to play some Morrowind! Thank you Mr. Dagoth Ur avatar person!

Honestly, I got by just fine playing the series backwards - it just takes patience. My advice: don't try to play them all the exact same way, don't go in with preconceived notions about how the games "should" be, get the unofficial patches, and save often. If you do make mod recommendation threads for Oblivion and Morrowind, I'll talk about that there if other people don't cover what I'd say (request on making mod rec threads: give an idea of what you'd want, not just "cool mods pls").

If you can, the Elder Scrolls Anthology is probably the best deal you can get on all of the games - you'll be getting all of the DLC for each game, CD copies and a code to get them all on Steam (to get all of Oblivion's DLC you'll need the Steam download), and the package itself comes with very pretty maps. Which are the main draw of buying physical copies of the Elder Scrolls games. I can understand if you don't want to make that investment before trying at least one of them out, though, but keep it in mind. (I think it goes pretty cheap these days, too)

Also keep in mind you can download Arena and Daggerfall for free from Bethesda's site, and if you google DaggerfallSetup you'll find a wonderful installer that sets up Daggerfall with a preconfigured DOSBox, unofficial patches, and even some optional unofficial quest add-ons - so you can just click and play Daggerfall, no fiddling. But the first two Elder Scrolls games might as well be from a different franchise entirely, they're so different. (I've really been meaning to write a beginner's guide to Daggerfall, maybe I should go do that)

To clarify some confusion above, what I meant by game mechanics was the physics and actual movement and such in the game. I'm a physicist, so to me mechanics=motion. I should have been more clear about what I was referring to.

I'll probably end up starting with Morrowind. It just makes more sense to go in order. I'm not going to start any of them quite yet in either case, so I've got some time to decide. Thanks again everyone for the input.

Tell us when you've gone through them all. Gives a good insight of the studio's direction and history - or at least I think it did for me.

And, you don't have to start with it or complete it, but IMO Daggerfall is at least worth trying.

Sigh, I almost envy someone experiencing TES for the first time.

Same. One of the most memorable first experiences in my gaming life. Probably led to me being as picky about videogames as I am today.

im very picking in graphic...oblivion maybe u can try... but morrowind.........

see, graphics were never a big issue with me as far as a game goes.. I care more about if the game is fun or not than what it looks like.. heck, some of my all time favorite titles have terrible graphics..



this is something that always bothered me about any studio using "look how realistic our graphics are!".. I mean, so it looks pretty, but is it fun?



fact is, graphics will only be able to improve so much, heck we have already reached the point of diminishing returns (notice the rapid jump in visuals from 5th to 6th gen consoles? now look at 6th to 7th, now notice the jump from 7th to 8th really isn't that impressive in comparison)..

But that's by far the easiest part to mod! Which can be fun in itself too.

I don't think it matters where you start, Skyrim's pretty good but you can always try Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind or Oblivion first, they're all pretty good games.