I remember when I was looking up job information for Bethesda one of the listed requirements said "experience with TES Construction Set is a plus"
I believe this means that they basically have the same kind of thing going, despite the new engine. Hopefully there'll be mods. If not, I'll still enjoy the game.

Of course, the rebuilt the engine from the ground up, they will most likely rebuild the CS from the ground up.

I don't think they even confirmed that there would be a construction set (GECK) for Fallout 3 until the week that the game was actually released, I doubt they'd be able to tell us now already.

My concern is file formats. The NIF files that Morrowind used basically had to be hacked as they were proprietary to Net Immerse. There are no good open formats for games which is one reason why most games use their own. If Bethesda refuses to release the format specs, it means another hack job. But if Bethesda refuses to release the format specs, it is safe to say that they are not supporting mods, so the discussion of mods here will not be allowed. Basically, in such a scenario, modding has to move underground. This raises many legal nightmares for modders. This, of course, is the worst case scenario, but it does have to be addressed.

It really is important to hear from Bethesda and get an official response. There are so many different details they would have to release that it simply isn't good enough to know that they use a modified version of the Construction Set. Such topics really cannot be guessed at.

It is also important for Bethesda to keep in mind that Maya, while maybe one of the best 3D modelers for games, is freakishly expensive and is why modders use Blender almost without exception. As such, releasing only the Maya plug ins without the format specs will effectively kill the modding community.

I have no doubt in my mind it will.
Not only was it highly popular in Oblivion and Morrowind, it's no secret that some of the ideas implemented into later games came from mods. It's win/win.

This happens with every game Beth releases (the topic of this thread I mean) it happened when Oblivion was announced, it happened withFallout 3, and this topic is one of the main reasons that a rift has occurred between the fan-base and the developers.

I'm going to put this cautionary note for everyone so that history does not repeat itself: the developers make not only the game, but the engine that the game (and mods) are built on, please do not mention anything about how modders carry on the series for Beth, because this has lead to a major problem in the past, I will not discuss this any further as I feel that this post is dangerous in its own right, but I feel the need to remind everyone that without the developers, there would be no game in the first place. Remember that.

I'm confident they will release a SDK on game-release or shortly afterwards. Beth are one of the most respected and loved devs by the PC modding community because they support and encourage modding. A lot more than other developers.

Even if it doesn't come with a CS, some modding will still be possible. I've been making retextures for Assassin's Creed, for instance, with a tool called TexMod.

No mods = I'm getting the 360 version.

I would be a sad sad pupp if we couldn't add the awesome variety of goodies the modding community delivers.

I wouldn't have a problem with a construction set being delivered a month or two after the game is launched, though. It is difficult to resist adding things before I finish the game at least twice. If there are multiple endings (which I hope there's not) then they need to be explored too. Then let the changes begin. I can only speculate on the changed condition of the games engine. Those who have seen it have described it as awesome, but have not given us a bench mark to measure this awesome to. I can only hope for a construction set to accompany it and enjoy the fruits of the development team's labor. As I am sure I will, these guys deliver great fun.

If it couldn't be moddable, I might not get it, and just stick with Oblivion, and maybe even Morrowind.
I love the base games, but also how we can customize it. That is a big sell for me.

If it is any consolation, there is no logical reason as to why they wouldn't make the construction set. The construction set is in no heavy way tied in with Gamebryo, as that has its own sandbox editor. The only real graphically related portion of the construction set is the render window. To have the new graphics integrated into the construction set would be a very minimal trouble if they programmed it in a decent way.

However, whether they release it or not is up to them. But I see absolutely no reason why they wouldn't, as it doesn't negatively affect anything in terms of sales.

As well, they will most likely use a new file format for meshes. The *.nif file format is integrated into the Gamebryo engine which they will not be using. That being said, I'm sure they'll release something about the file format. Even if they don't, it won't be that difficult to figure out.

If you ask me, posts like this do more to create rifts between players and developers than this topic ever did. Suggesting that the developers would "threaten" us with no construction set, or no game at all, simply in retaliation for claims that modders keep the game going... well, that's going to create animosity right there (at least, if someone were to believe it). Besides, I don't think anyone is claiming that modders carry on the series, per se; but they do carry on the games. I mean, Morrowind is still popular a whopping 8 years after its release, and that's not because the vanilla game is so infinitely thrilling on its own; it's because modders have added so much extra content that there's always something new to try no matter how much you've played the game before. And that's in no way an insult to the developers; they gave us the toolset for a reason. It would be silly to think that the gamesas team would feel slighted because players are getting so much use out of the tools they gave them.

I can only speak for myself, but if I were a developer, I would want to include a toolkit like this not because it's going to help sell units, but because I'd be excited to see what players do with the game that I never even thought of. I just don't think it's fair to paint the developers as some sort of vengeful gods who would take revenge on us for enjoying the tools they gave us, when in fact they're probably just as excited as we are to see what modders come up with--and they probably use plenty of those same mods themselves.

Plus I think it helps when Bethesda is creating the next game in the series. They get an extra sense of what people are looking for, and can be translated into the next game, even for people who don't use mods.
It can be a type of end-user design research.

Im also more concerned with the level of modding that will be available. Model format is probably the biggest thing to be worried about as a CS is likely to happen.

I really hope they will release an exporter this time like they did for Morrowind. Otherwise I guess it will take 1-2 years before a completely functional exporter toolset (something like the current Oblivion Blender/3ds Max exporter and Nifskope) is available. And most likely there wouldn't even be a limited alternative like the Civ4 exporter or exporting/importing as obj file (like it was the case with Oblivion). That would mean that most likely it wouldn't be possible to import any new models for quite a long time - something that I personally feel would make modding very limited and boring.



Bethesda was always very generous when it came to modding and releasing stuff. For example every retexture (that is not a replacer) comes with an unaltered Bethesda model in the downloaded archive. They never had a problem with that, even though you could probably download about all the meshes and textures available in Oblivion from Nexus if you looked carefully. I doubt they will do anything to make modding illegal now, even if they could from a lawyers point of view.

So far Bethesda used 3ds Max for their models, not Maya. But Max is just as expensive as Maya, so I guess it doesn't matter. Morrowind only had a 3ds max exporter and it didn't kill the community. Neither will it kill the Skyrim community. There are lots of people who use 3ds Max for modding, I would estimate that at least 20% of the modellers in the Oblivion community use it instead of Blender. And I'm sure eventually there would be a Blender plugin as well. No idea whether Morrowind has one.

The thing to keep in mind is that the file format that Morrowind and Oblivion used are not property of Bethesda and are licensed. I find it really strange that Emergent (at the time called Net Immerse) did not make an issue of the modding community hacking the format. The format specs were never released by Emergent and were only available with a GameBryo license, so the mere fact that NIFScope even exists is a miracle. Companies tend to treat their file formats are intellectual property long after they have lost their usefulness.

Bethesda has been extremely generous to the modding community in past games and has provided a better tool than offered with any other game from any other company. However, this is not a developer decision. This is a management decision. Management wisely saw the modding community as a way to increase and maintain revenue long after the game was released. There have been a lot of changes at Bethesda since the release of Oblivion, so it is not too far fetched to consider the possibility that current management (assuming there was a change) will view modding as a violation of intellectual property rights and ban it.



I got the modelers mixed up. Yes, there is a Blender plug in for Morrowind, made by the same people that make the Blender plug in for Oblivion. My point was that these plug ins were not made with the permission of either Emergent or Bethesda and the format had to be hacked to get the plug ins working. This is my concern, as I have already posted. If Bethesda refuses to release the format OR a Blender plug in (either would work), then the modding community will be comprised of those that have access to Max. Also, since Bethesda now owns the rights to the format, hacking the format without Bethesda's express permission can and probably would be seen as a violation of their intellectual property rights. Again, this would mean an underground modding community and no support on these forums for mods made with such tools.

Of course, there are other options like Bethesda not releasing the format, but giving permission to hack it (kind of strange and counterproductive).

A year will pass quickly and we can expect a slow trickle of news from official outlets over the next few months. However, it would be nice to hear about this particular topic soon.

If you're skilled enough, I am pretty sure you could mod any game at least for PC (I recall a large and popular mod for Baldur's Gate, back in the day?) but the ease of use (I've added stuff to my own game for personal use) of the Elder Scrolls construction set (or GECK for FO3/FONV) and the full blessing of the developers to mod the game and freely distribute any modifications is invaluable.

I can't imagine them doing away with that, Morrowind and Oblivion are old games now but people still buy PC copies, and it's the modding community that has contributed to the ongoing pleasure and popularity of the games - and I am sure Bethesda appreciate that an easy to use construction set and the modding community is a factor in ongoing sales and long shelf life of their games. If there was no CS, they would be shooting themselves in the foot IMO.

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Don't think the management would commit reputation suicide by doing that. The modders/mod-users may only be a relatively small group compared to the total amount of TES players, but they are a group with a very strong voice. If modding Elder Scrolls games was banned there would be a huge uproar in the community. Don't think they would want hundreds of thousands of players to be mad at them. A managment is interested in sales and good reviews for their products as well as a good reputation for their company. They would be crazy if they made decisions that absolutely kill their companies reputation only to insist on their rights.

Just my opinion, we'll see how it goes.

If the game is good, why would it need mods?

Because maybe modders want to populate Skyrim with things and locations and mechanics that are more to their personal taste? Or because they just love the ability to add onto their games indefinitely?

I'm confidant that they'll ensure mods are readily made for Skyrim.

Which is why I love Bethesda.

There is no reason to assume that just because the game uses a new engine means it won't be moddable. Indeed, it's possible that a new engine could make the game more mod friendly, depending on how the engine is programmed and how much of it can be easily altered in the construction set.

Now will the game be moddable? Bethesda hasn't said anything for certain, one way or another, due to the lack of official information on the matter, but it would seem an incredibly foolish decision on Bethesda's part to not support mods in Skyrim, considering how much modding has helped Morrowind and Oblivion, as well as the Fallout games Bethesda has developed or published, and many of their PC fanbase might be less inclined to play their games if it weren't for mods. I know I might not even buy Skyrim at all if it does not allow modding. I don't care of the game makes unmodded Morrowind or Oblivion look like the video game equivalent of 'Manos' the Hands of Fate, if I can't modify it, I'll still feel betrayed.