I think a power hungry Champion would do the opposite. Vanquish necromancers, lycans, vamps, and everything elsen that goes bump in the night. He would literally ever threat eliminated, thus making him steal rights and place outrageous laws to control the people, thus creating the need to rebel. And, it's very obvious spiderpig just wants to play as Calendras, his short lived Necromancer character that he is madly in love with. (Which I have no problem with, hell I use Kiel at every oppourtunity in order to develop him further.)

I love calendras because his based on me.

Yes. I'm an arrogant Narcisstic sarcastic [censored].


The b word is censored now?

It didn't used to be.

Actually, by controlling "necromancers, lycans, vamps, and everything else that goes bump in the night", she has built herself a very powerful base of Mooks and underlings to quell dissent. Would you speak out against her, knowing she'd have a werewolf kill you, a vampire drink you dry, and a necromancer raise your body again to fight those you want to protect? Terror is a powerful method of subdual. Only the almost fearless khajiit wouldn't be entirely intimidated, but their cowardice and prudence would subdue them.

The greatest evils don't think of themselves as evil.

He would see himself as a protecter and a savior for eliminating everything that is bad in his eyes. Then, he would "protect" the people by placing harsh laws and putting the powerful mages in charge. He would see the Rebels as a danger to society, not a threat to his reign of power.

That's for pat to decide.

Anyway, Xykon was the greatest evil ever, and he openly admited to being evil and took it with tact.

Now that depends entirely on the Champion's personality. There aren't a set-in-stone code of rules for characters - if they think they're doing what is right, so be it. If they're perfectly aware of their evil and still care for themselves primarily, so be it. Characters are versatile like that. In this case, it will depend on Pat's rendition of an evil Champion.

@Spider pig Hitler thought of himself as a saint.

@Bombadil we all played the main quest, from day one all the champion heard was: You are the savior, you are our best hope. Don't you think that would get to his head some.

Hitler had people thinking he was the new Messiah, a second Jesus.

And how is this relevant to the disucssion?

I countered your fictional example with a real world one

Xykon was awesome.

Hitler was meh.

You can't compare them.

It could have gone to his head, or he could have been thinking something else entirely on the inside. Again, it depends entirely on the player's version of the Champion, from conquering hero to manipulative puppeteer. Again I say, in this case it will depend on Pat's Champion.

Edit: And Hitler was kinda insane.

Thats offensive to me being Jewish, Hitler was the worst evil the world had ever seen.

Why? Insane people can have power, and I agree, Hitler was one of the worst things to happen to humanity. Power + insanity + bad ideas = Hitler.

But we're getting way off topic now.

Hitler was evil, and crazy. But i don't think he was the worst ever. It's just that it was only 70 years ago, and the scars i still fresh. They're were plenty of evil people from the middle agws who were just as bad as hitler, but the scars have healed.

Sorry if it offended you, but i don't see what was offensive in my post. I said hitler was meh. He was boring.

EDIT: this is turning political. Time to stop now.

Sorry, that was directed at spiderpig, not you.

Thank you, Godwin...

I think we can base the "Champion"'s villany on that of Dagoth Ur and Mankarr Camoran from TES. Her motive: Hold the Empire together. The provinces don't get along with each other, each having 1001 reasons to go to war with each other. Even though the first game in the series was named "Arena" because it was going to be an arena simulator, the reason for the retconn is official lore, as explicitly stated in the opening quote from the Elder Scrolls in Daggerfall. So, she sees herself as holding the Empire together, using all means possible.

Thats pretty much what I was saying, just doing it without Necromancers
EDIT: I'm just saying you shouldn't compare Hitler to a fictional character and say the fictional character was a worse evil

But, she'd see the necromancers as neccessary to the unification of the provinces. She couldn't have them rebelling just because she doesn't like them, and her pragmatism would lead her to conclude that their legions of the undead could be extremely beneficial in bolstering her otherwise pitiful forces. There aren't enough mages to enforce her NWO. If she is a mage supremesist, which is likely, she would believe that non-spellcasters are too base and unsophisticated to be entrusted with running the nation. Since the necromancers are often powerful spellcasters, it is in her best interest to recruit them.

She doesn't have normal legions because they disagree fundamentally with her "Only spellcasters are worthy of any power" idea, and if an organized, militant faction were given power, their rebellion would sink the Empire, so she is in effect an enemy of the Imperial Legion. With only a few elite completely on her side, she has to make up for the critical shortage of mooks with whatever she can. In this case, it is undead, mind-controlled people, and swarms of Daedra. Advances in the study of magic could make conjuration, illusion, and necromancy strong enough to accomodate the huge numbers of mooks under control of each mage.

@edit: Especially considering that the fictional character was a parody of evil.

I guess if it was done your way, it would be done in secret.

"Charm person" effects would be quite effective at getting all the mages to cooperate with the Champion of Cyrodiil in the complete corruption of the guild.

Ok, as much as Beth might have tried to convince us otherwise with Oblivion, TES is not a one dimensional fantasy world where you can simply showcase its implements as either "good" or "evil". When speaking from a standpoint that should be objective you can't do this in Tamriel any more than you can do it in the real world. The Champion's not evil, she's doing what she believes is in the best interest of the people of Tamriel and the rebels, with their individual motivations, are doing the same.

Necromancy can be used to many different ends and, as an art with the potential to empower mages, it's study and practice with that design should be encouraged by the new order.

Actually, she is evil by the very definition... There are definitions of good and evil (I have written extensive essays on both), as well as shades of grey. Are you saying that Daggoth Ur is not evil either, or Jagar Tharn wasn't evil, or Admiral Richton wasn't evil, or Mehrunes Dagon isn't evil, or Boethia isn't evil, or Molag Bal isn't evil, or Almalexia wasn't evil throughout Tribunal? Seeing as good and evil are definitions of patterns of behavior (particularly, respect of life and liberty and lack of those respects), there is good and evil in Tamriel.

I'm saying all those things. Fundamentally Dagoth Ur wanted the independence of Dunmer people and their resources. Admiral Richton fought to secure the future of the Empire he'd sworn an oath to. You can't judge Daedra by mortal value systems, their perspectives are obscured to us. Almalexia wanted to retain her function as a defender of Morrowind. Etc. etc. etc.

I just defined evil... and all those fit it to the letter.