New Magic System Theory

Post » Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:00 am

If I remember correctly, you had to have a similar spell in your repository already to be able to use it at the alter (e.g. you had to have at least one feather spell to use the feather effect in any way at the alter) - all you could do with it then is mix it with other spells, change the power/effect time, AoE, and target.

Could you please provide some examples?

I play Mages, and don't like sneaking, so I would make spells that did bugger all damage in a really wide area, and lit me up, to bring all the nearby enemies out into the open, I can't surprise them, they can't jump out at me in those dark and scary Ayleid ruins. This sort of play, making mixes of effects uniquely tailored to your niche playing style, will be sorely missed if spellmaking is out.
User avatar
Marquis T
 
Posts: 3425
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:39 pm

Post » Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:00 am

Heart Attack spell

I can't see how that's a new spell, it's just drain fatigue with health damage on top.

I play Mages, and don't like sneaking, so I would make spells that did bugger all damage in a really wide area, and lit me up, to bring all the nearby enemies out into the open, I can't surprise them, they can't jump out at me in those dark and scary Ayleid ruins. This sort of play, making mixes of effects uniquely tailored to your niche playing style, will be sorely missed if spellmaking is out.

I suppose that's a more practical and useful use of the spellmaking system and I can now see why some people may find it useful, although I still think if it was to be implemented in any way it should not feel mechanical or 'spreadsheety'.
User avatar
Rachell Katherine
 
Posts: 3380
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:21 pm

Post » Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:27 am

I'd be disappointed if spell creation didn't make it in. It was one of the best creativity tools in Oblivion. Also please allow us to delete/ deconstruct weaker spells.....please.
User avatar
Chloe Mayo
 
Posts: 3404
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:59 pm

Post » Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:50 am

I can't see how that's a new spell, it's just drain fatigue with health damage on top.

It gives a whole new visual effect. It doesnt matter what the actual named effects are, its what they do when combined. Im not sitting here and giving every example for the people that have no imagination. I did that in a spell making thread a few days ago. Check out the useful spell list in UESP, it has some good, if simple examples. Spell making can get really intricate though, both RP and effect wise. Morrowind was even better at this.
User avatar
Cassie Boyle
 
Posts: 3468
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:33 am

Post » Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:57 am

I don't see why Spell creation should not be in a TES sequel when Weapon creation is...

The only confirmed response is that they want to make sure it works properly in the new system, so I trust that bethesda want it in as well and will dedicate the resources required to get it working for November.
User avatar
Red Bevinz
 
Posts: 3318
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:25 am

Post » Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:37 am

1 It gives a whole new visual effect. It doesnt matter what the actual named effects are, its what they do when combined. 2 Im not sitting here and giving every example for the people that have no imagination. I did that in a spell making thread a few days ago. Check out the useful spell list in UESP, it has some good, if simple examples. 3. Spell making can get really intricate though, both RP and effect wise. Morrowind was even better at this.

1. I know that, but when it uses the same visual spell effect as the base spell it's hard to imagine it as something totally new. Drain fatigue knocks things to the ground a lot of the time anyway, and adding damage to it only adds damage to it.
2. If that was directed at me, I would appreciate it if you refrain from using personal insults.
3. Yes, I see that now - zen1966 provided a good example of how it maybe can be useful. I don't think I would mind it being in as long it is implemented differently, maybe combining spell animations used to make it seem unique, increasing the visual effects as the spell is stronger, and making it all feel less mechanical when actually making the spell.
User avatar
HARDHEAD
 
Posts: 3499
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:49 am

Post » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:39 pm

I can't see how that's a new spell, it's just drain fatigue with health damage on top.


I suppose that's a more practical and useful use of the spellmaking system and I can now see why some people may find it useful, although I still think if it was to be implemented in any way it should not feel mechanical or 'spreadsheety'.

Like anything in a virtual world, it is a question of your perception of it. If you worry about creation being number crunching, it will feel like that. If you have an idea for a spell you want, which will enhance your playstyle/roleplaying/enjoyment of the game, then the fact you have to crunch a few numbers at the altar doesn't matter.
As to making overpowered 'cheat' spells, the old 'it's a single player game' argument definitely applies here, I think.
User avatar
JERMAINE VIDAURRI
 
Posts: 3382
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:06 am

Post » Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:11 am

Like anything in a virtual world, it is a question of your perception of it. If you worry about creation being number crunching, it will feel like that. If you have an idea for a spell you want, which will enhance your playstyle/roleplaying/enjoyment of the game, then the fact you have to crunch a few numbers at the altar doesn't matter.
As to making overpowered 'cheat' spells, the old 'it's a single player game' argument definitely applies here, I think.


+1 for being the first to spell the word "altar" correctly.

-1 for mentioning what you did in the last sentence. That entire line of thought needs to not be mentioned ever again.

So, good job for breaking even.
User avatar
Batricia Alele
 
Posts: 3360
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:12 am

Post » Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:46 pm

I suppose that's a more practical and useful use of the spellmaking system and I can now see why some people may find it useful, although I still think if it was to be implemented in any way it should not feel mechanical or 'spreadsheety'.


If you think previous spell creation tools were "spreadsheety" then I guess you have problems with reading a menu at a restraunt, which also have choices and numbers?
User avatar
Phoenix Draven
 
Posts: 3443
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 3:50 am

Post » Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:05 pm

Like anything in a virtual world, it is a question of your perception of it. If you worry about creation being number crunching, it will feel like that. If you have an idea for a spell you want, which will enhance your playstyle/roleplaying/enjoyment of the game, then the fact you have to crunch a few numbers at the altar doesn't matter.
As to making overpowered 'cheat' spells, the old 'it's a single player game' argument definitely applies here, I think.

For me, that would involve breaking my role-playing experience to enhance my role-playing experience - I'd like to see magic as something 'magical' but it's pretty hard when it really does seem like something based on spreadsheets - if some people don't see it like that, good for them, but I personally think Bethesda are heading in the right direction when trying to get rid of the 'spreadsheety' feel of spellcrafting.

I really don't agree with that 'single player game' argument but it seems pointless to go any further than that, there's many-a-discussion on that already.

If you think previous spell creation tools were "spreadsheety" then I guess you have problems with reading a menu at a restraunt, which also have choices and numbers?

You're being completely and utterly ridiculous, was that comment even necessary?
User avatar
Izzy Coleman
 
Posts: 3336
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:34 am

Post » Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:01 am

this thread isnt about if spell creation is in or not..its about the OP's idea in how bethesda is creating the magic system.. his theory is that spells will get stronger as you level up just like OB was with swords.. a glass sword at level 10 did like 13 damage.. at level 40 it did like 28 damage..those numbers are probably wrong but you get the point.. and with that being said..I'm not sure how i feel about that there are a lot of pros and cons there.it could be great or an awful idea.

On a side note i think i'm the only one that wouldn't mind if spell creation was gone


I'm with you on this one. I really couldn't care less if spell creation didn't make it into the game, even though I regularly used the feature. I think the OP's idea of spells leveling with you is a good idea, like weapons did =)

EDIT: Although after reading the whole thred I can see there would be some viable problems with that.
User avatar
Barbequtie
 
Posts: 3410
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:34 pm

Post » Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:24 am

For me, that would involve breaking my role-playing experience to enhance my role-playing experience - I'd like to see magic as something 'magical' but it's pretty hard when it really does seem like something based on spreadsheets - if some people don't see it like that, good for them, but I personally think Bethesda are heading in the right direction when trying to get rid of the 'spreadsheety' feel of spellcrafting.

I really don't agree with that 'single player game' argument but it seems pointless to go any further than that, there's many-a-discussion on that already.


You're being completely and utterly ridiculous, was that comment even necessary?

Not really since the Altar represented learning and studying to create your spell. That's how you make and learn a spell. When you buy a spell from someone, your not just buying some item, your being taught that spell. Its the same thing, a representation. The whole 'magic on the fly' that Skyrim is apparantly taking kind of goes against how it was done before and how its portrayed in the lore. Im fine with it, just have the ability for spell creation.
User avatar
kennedy
 
Posts: 3299
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:53 am

Post » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:40 pm

I wouldn't normally use that particular argument, I just had a thought that it would be a sad day if they got rid of spellmaking because of complaints that it could be abused, that's all.
I use it to make spells, not to maximise damage, and a lot of fun can be gained from this aspect of TES. If I can play a mage and enjoy it, with the new 'visceral, new approach to combat' magic system, then all well and good, maybe creation won't be missed that much, but I wonder if we will be able to tweak AoE, duration, DoT, etc. If so, then excellent.
User avatar
Eoh
 
Posts: 3378
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:03 pm

Post » Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:39 am

Not really since the Altar represented learning and studying to create your spell. That's how you make and learn a spell. When you buy a spell from someone, your not just buying some item, your being taught that spell. Its the same thing, a representation. The whole 'magic on the fly' that Skyrim is apparantly taking kind of goes against how it was done before and how its portrayed in the lore. Im fine with it, just have the ability for spell creation.

I didn't mean it like that, when I said "break my role-playing experience" I meant the numbers and mechanical feel did that, not the alter - I understand the alter's purpose and appreciate what it represents, but I just think it really can be done without the mechanical feel. I also understand the buying of spells (though I don't think it would have taken much to change the word 'buy' to 'teach' in every instance necessary in the game). Lore can always be twisted :tongue: - someone has to be able to teach themselves to use magika (especially the dragonborns) - otherwise where'd all the spells come from in the first place? Someone started a thread about magic lore http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1179365-in-depth-magic-lore/ though.
User avatar
Heather M
 
Posts: 3487
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:40 am

Post » Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:50 am

Good Morning Kids,

Here is my thoughts on how they will make spells work - kinda like Fable - I will use the fireball spell as an example.

Fireball in Oblivion had a lesser/normal(not dure what it was called)/ greater frieball spells - the higher in level you went (due to level scaling) increased your attack, but also decreased the amount of mana required to fuel it.

As it has been mentioned (someone please link this for me) we will be able to hold down the fireball spell to decide on the intensity of the attack. If you get hit you may forfiet the mana used to draw on the spell and not be able to cast it/ there will be a perk to avoid this for greater mages.

This way we only have one fireball spell and not 3 or four

:flamethrower:
User avatar
Jade Muggeridge
 
Posts: 3439
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:51 pm

Post » Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:42 am

There always comes this argument about whether your character should be able to become overpowered or not, but in my opinion a game should always be challenging - even at your character's strongest you shouldn't be able to cast one spell easily and then be able to just run through every quest or it wipe out an entire town unless maybe it has some super-awesome animation, long cast time, etc. - all of which 100% chameleon didn't. Chameleon 100% was just something you could use to get through quests without any work whatsoever.



So what?
What do you care if I want to breeze through an Oblivion gate?
Does it hurt your gameplay?
Are you seriously so hung up about bragging rights for 'finishing the game' that if someone does it in a non-combat way, you feel cheated of your achievement?

I like 100% chameleon. Its useful. It allows for emergent gameplay. It allows for choice.

So what if spells are powerful at a high level?
They are supposed to be. Im a mage.

I dont want levelled spells. I want to choose wich type of spell I want to cast, weak or powerful.
What I do not want to see is the spell system/ magic system further gimped to pander to people who do not understand this is not a FPS.
It aggrevates me.
User avatar
Killah Bee
 
Posts: 3484
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:23 pm

Post » Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:02 am

I remember in the gameinformer podcast interview Todd Howard said that spell like fireball would be done by selecting an element (fire) and a shape (in this case projectile) so i think while the rigid system we're familiar with from oblivion where you make a set spell (fire damage x points on target) will be replaced by a more fluid system. Something like on the equip menu if you want to use a spell in a given hand first you select the element/effect and then you select the shape (projectile, spray, rune, touch). I know i would prefer that or at least a better way to organize spells as opposed to the flat list of preset spells.
User avatar
Kill Bill
 
Posts: 3355
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 2:22 am

Post » Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:02 pm

So what?
What do you care if I want to breeze through an Oblivion gate?
Does it hurt your gameplay?
Are you seriously so hung up about bragging rights for 'finishing the game' that if someone does it in a non-combat way, you feel cheated of your achievement?

I like 100% chameleon. Its useful. It allows for emergent gameplay. It allows for choice.

So what if spells are powerful at a high level?
They are supposed to be. Im a mage.

I dont want levelled spells. I want to choose wich type of spell I want to cast, weak or powerful.
What I do not want to see is the spell system/ magic system further gimped to pander to people who do not understand this is not a FPS.
It aggrevates me.

Your aggravation comes across quite clearly. I do not mind powerful spells at a high level, and I do not care for "bragging rights". Of course 100% chameleon is useful, and of course it allows for choice - but it's too useful, and there are many ways of allowing choice. Invisibility was a useful, powerful, and not overpowered spell that was useful for emergent gameplay - it could last a long time but disappeared after interacting with certain items, I think it was a very good spell. Chameleon 100% could last forever and never disappeared when interacting with any object - it was overpowered. I don't mind extremely powerful spells as long they're not overpowered. If I have some crazy AoE fire spell that allows me to wipe out a whole cave of mid-level trolls but uses up a lot of my magika at a high level, fine. But if at a high level I could kill a dragon with a single touch, it would be overpowered. I think it really ruins the fun of a game. "But what do you care if I want to breeze through an Oblivion gate?", "Does it hurt your gameplay?": I really don't mind if you want to do that, it doesn't hurt my gameplay at all. I'm fine with other things that allow you to breeze through games - cheats and easy difficulty levels, for example. The thing that makes magic different is that its part of the game and role-playing experience whereas cheats and difficulties are part of the game mechanics. I just don't think it feels right being able to do things like that - I know that isn't much of an argument but there's no other way I can really explain it, I hope you understand what I mean :smile:
User avatar
Lifee Mccaslin
 
Posts: 3369
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:03 am

Post » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:27 pm

(snip)


I know what you mean, but thats not the emergent gameplay I meant. I meant doing things that are outside the box.
There is no other mechanism for people on console to follow an NPC for an in-game week to write down his schedule without 100% chameleon. Its behaviour alters when it 'sees' you.
For walkthroughs and sometimes my own amusemant I did follow NPC's for extended periods of time.
If I had used invisibility that would have been impossible because I wouldnt be able to follow them into another cell, without them immediatly seeing me and changing their default behaviour.
That is what I use 100% chameleon for.

That, and in Oblivion gates because I simply have no desire to run the same boring gauntlet 30 times per game.

Overpowered is not a factor for me. I simply dont use it if I want a challenge, wich is more or less all the time.
But sometimes I just want to quickly redo a quest cause I had to reload after a crash or things like that, and then there is no substitute.

I dont have to use these things, and usually I dont. But I do want the option, should I so desire.
User avatar
Josh Trembly
 
Posts: 3381
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:25 am

Post » Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:49 am

I know what you mean, but thats not the emergent gameplay I meant. I meant doing things that are outside the box.
There is no other mechanism for people on console to follow an NPC for an in-game week to write down his schedule without 100% chameleon. Its behaviour alters when it 'sees' you.
For walkthroughs and sometimes my own amusemant I did follow NPC's for extended periods of time.
If I had used invisibility that would have been impossible because I wouldnt be able to follow them into another cell, without them immediatly seeing me and changing their default behaviour.
That is what I use 100% chameleon for.

That, and in Oblivion gates because I simply have no desire to run the same boring gauntlet 30 times per game.

Overpowered is not a factor for me. I simply dont use it if I want a challenge, wich is more or less all the time.
But sometimes I just want to quickly redo a quest cause I had to reload after a crash or things like that, and then there is simply no substitute.

I dont have to use these things, and usually I dont. But I do want the option, should I so desire.

I suppose it's all eventually going to come down to that in the end, if something is in I don't like I could just pretend it's not there - it's better than something not being in the game at all and wanting it there. I do, however, think that invisibility wouldn't be overpowered if it only de-activated on attack (or time-out) but that's for another topic.
User avatar
Kellymarie Heppell
 
Posts: 3456
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:37 am

Post » Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:56 am

You're being completely and utterly ridiculous, was that comment even necessary?


Necessary, probably not, utterly ridiculous, I'll disagree.
I use spreadsheets every day, and the previous spell creation systems had more in common with a stereo system then a spreadsheet. You aren't required to create mathematical formula to use the spell creation system, all you had to do was fiddle with some dials and sliders, frankly setting the time on my alarm clock is more involved than creating a spell in TES is.

This whole "Spreadsheety" thing is nonsense in my opinion. The spell creation GUI is an abstraction to represent a student of magicka taking some time to do research and apply it in a novel way. Its not like your coding a macro like you would in most MMORPG's, it already has a non-technical UI which can be used on a game controller (try using a spreadsheet on an XBOX controller) .
Frankly I don't even know why this particular red-herring has even been raised, it has nothing to do with weather or not we get a spell creation system. The devs aren't thinking of excluding a spell creation system because they though previous spell creation tools were "too spreadsheety" they are trying to work out if they can make spell creation work with the new magicka system, and as of yet have not comunicated that they have an aproach to spell creation they are happy with.
User avatar
Naomi Ward
 
Posts: 3450
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:37 pm

Post » Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:41 am

Could it be similar to the magic mechanic of Azurik: Rise of Perathia?
I wouldn't be terribly opposed to something like that, I guess. It seemed pretty awesome to me.
User avatar
Marina Leigh
 
Posts: 3339
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 7:59 pm

Post » Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:29 am

I think that because this is hundred years in the future from oblivion maybe the lore will say something like "And when the dragons layed siege to skyrim the sons and daughters of skyrim forgot some of magics greatest secrets now forever lose to time." or something like that to explain why you can't use spellmaking any more. what you guys(males)/girls(females) think please give opinon. :bolt:
User avatar
Pawel Platek
 
Posts: 3489
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 2:08 pm

Post » Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:28 am

Will you guys Cram it with the numbers and spreadsheety business? like really what part of Oblivion ISNT numbers?


Weapons have attack values you base more or less what weapon you want on damage and your play style.

Alchemy

ENCHANTING WHICH IS IN SKYRIM

Armor Values

your attributes, and skills are ALL numbers and look very spreadsheety as well you want ot tell me only Spell making gets singled out by you guys jumping on the "Spreadsheety" bandwagon? that was a PR term, you know? like when a salesmen is trying to deflate potential outrage towards taking out features. do you think every mage in Skyrim only know a handful of spells? or that they universally turn their touch spells into flamethrowers? you're telling me everyone across Tamriel only know about 5-6 spells per school of the 85 spells in the game? mmk

here how about this I'll shamelessly put this here
\


Since they are overhauling the Magic system and adding environmental effects such as lightning stunning and draining magicka or fire continuing to burn, here is a list I hope with regards to current spell effects. using the Oblivion and Morrowind spell effects archives. its more like a detailed hoped etc etc. again this is the HOPE that they are keeping spell effects and not shelling us with same fable esq crap where you can only cast so many spells and not make your own, trust me after 10 mins its going to get annoying casting the same fireball spell, and context sensitive spell casting is a cheap cop out to me.

Really spells are from research an art even, not that you bought them from a person that sells spells, at any point if spells are sold they should only be from scrolls, where then if you are not associated with the Mages guild (now Synod and Whispers) then you memorize and incorporate that spell, rather than buying it from some store. and of course you can be *taught* the a spell or rather spell *effects* from other trainers, but ultimate what spells you have are what you concentrated and formed yourself.
I envisioned a spell making system were it was ACTIVE.

During spell making the player assumes a meditative stance and would muster a large portion of their Magicka and a concentrate it into a specific kind of Spell effect, the amount of magicka Mustered would be diminishing so a kind of trail and error or you'll have to know exactly what kind of spell you want to make before you make it approach would be needed. you couldn't do it on the fly, a form of concentration of focus would be needed to even start the process, meditating or being at rest and utilizing the magicka. quiet area's with no disturbances or unusually large amounts of residual magicka would be helpful.

be aware its most likely just spells and not spell effects as the aforementioned Contextual spell casting, lack of spell creation and only 85 spells for 6 schools gets undercut-ted significantly in what we can do.



Concentration- whether or not its densely packed / and if that affects a wide or limited area

Sustained or not - deciding whether or not its a flame thrower or a fire ball, an arc of lightning or a sustained flurry

Intensity - Frequency would control whether the effects lasts after the initial caste, such as setting things on fire, or effecting a persons mind after using a very powerful charm spell.

the more adept you are at spell making / being a mage/That School of Magicka the more effects you can utilize while making a spell and the less likely you are to backfire during the process spell effects are taught by their respective guild schools (each Chapter in Oblivion specialized in a school) or by Books/Scrolls.

You would be able to make spells beyond your scope, but it would be difficult and taxing to your character in making it and casting that spell. certain spells depending on how you made them would be difficult for you to caste at first, but with more use you become more proficient at using your spells. continuing on taxing the player certain perks could be available that allow you to reach into deeper pools of magicka where otherwise you would simply run out and notbe able to caste. and even further more casting spells frequently with little magicka would fatiuge your character from draining stamina, making focus harder, to draining your health.

You could still be taught spells from other mages or learn from scrolls bought at various stores as a way for the individuals not proficient in Magick to have access to such.


School of Alteration

The school of Alteration involves the manipulation of the physical world and its natural properties and shaping them to aid the mage

Spoiler
Burden: Increases the weight of an object or all objects on an opponent. can be used to increase your standing power or keep an object out of an opponents use, failure results in a higher than normal burdening possibly culminating in crushing of user or casted object, or lack there of.

Feather: Decreases the weight of an object or all objects on an opponent, can be used on self to lighten weight and move faster or jump higher in difficult situations, failure results in unstable field, unwarranted deactivation

Fire Shield: Evokes a Field/Sphere of FIRE around the user, effective at staving off localized frost hazards and attacks. can increase dmg done by fire attacks both incoming and out going, as well as potentially killing the user in hostile environments where heat/fire is in excess. can be nulled by Dispel if its higher then the casted shield, failure results in burning

Frost Shield: Evokes a field/Sphere of ICE around the user, effective at staunching off Fire based attacks, Can increase dmg done by Frost based attacks both incoming and outgoing, can kill or dmg the user if used for too long in frost hazards IE Blizzards. can be nulled by Dispel if it is higher than the casted shield, Failure results in frost damage or possibility of temporary freezing

Open: magically opens a locked container or door. lower levels can unlock doors not sealed by magical means, Higher levels require dispel or great proficiency in open when used with telekinesis, doors can be opened at a distance, allowing the user to gain ground from a pursuer

Lock: magically Seals an open door or Container, when used with Telekinesis doors can be locked at a distance giving the user some reprieve from an extensive chase or lock their hapless victim from continuing to flee, it is different from physical lock in that the seal is reinforced by magicka and takes more than a key to open, however without local enchantment or certain perks, the magicka reinforcement will run out, leaving the lock level to remain. note a lock spell cannot increase the level of lock already on a door.

Shield: Creates a Magical Shield that universally protects the user, however it is impermeable and does not allow for magical attacks in or out the field, can be nulled by Dispel, little protection from environmental hazards. failure results in an unstable field, allowing objects/attacks to penetrate the field. perks are available to extend the natural caste time of this spell as well as add push back force to heavy blows incurred on the shield

Shock Shield: Creates a Sphere of Magical Electricity, able to damage opponents coming to close to the user, Shock based attacks are doubled going out but do not penetrate the field, does not protect against environmental hazards /fire/frost. failure results in an unstable field lashing out an anything in its reach and potentially damaging the user

Water Breathing: allows the user to utilize Magical breath sustaining the user under area's low or devoid of Oxygen, can resist air/inhalation based poisons, failure invokes astral vapors disease

Water Walking : allows the user to walk on water, lower levels restrict the user to *walking* higher levels give greater stabilization to allow running and even sprinting or extended combat over water. failure results in a lost of effect.


School of Conjuration

The school of Conjuration practices in the art of summoning magical items and beings from the outer realms to serve you, often this school of magick requires both hands be free for spell casting, increasing in level and certain perks allow for combat summoning. at higher tiers and advance studies in the arts, deadric summoning open up for the player. obviously there are significant dangers to summoning creatures especially those from the outer realms.

Spoiler
Bound Armor and weapons: ability to prioritize a set of weapons/ Armor for instant equip and use during combat for mages that cannot use armor effectively. the Bound Objects are specialized for the mage to allow maximum magicka usage and mobility despite that armors type, is vulnerable to dispel and disintegrate but are more resistant. the armor can be fortified with additional magicka, Failure results in dispersion of the armor, greater levels of Bound weapons allows the user to summon unorthodox weapons and armors from the Deadric planes with the required teachings/perks.

Summon Ancestor Guardian: a Purely Dunmeri Ability, a Dunmer is able to call upon its ancestors for aid, Ancestor ghosts can aid in battle, provide council, possess enemies or buff the users with its blessings, the Ancestors are giving strength through offerings and reverence made at local Temple shrines. failure results in summoning the wrong Ancestor, potentially from another family, or no ancestors at all. Higher levels can evoke 2 more ancestors to aid the user.

Summon Animal - Spider lings, Bears, Wolves etc etc: depending on type of summoning a Pre-existing animal from a nearby location can be called to aid the user, otherwise a magical summoning is brought fourth which is more vulnerable to magick disrupting attacks, preexisting animals leave after their service has expired, and only familiars stick around to continue aid. various animals have different abilites and are helpful in a variety of ways. failure results in the summoning turning on you and or phasing out of existence in terms of magical based summonings

Summon lesser Deadra: understood as low caste Deadra, these include deadra of what mortals believe as limited intelligence deadra, Daedroths, Clanfears, Scamps etc etc, these Daedra are bound to the user when summoned, many are aware of the situation and will do as told, however unexperienced casters have found how smart these individuals can become, and bringing fourth to many can have dire consqeuncess if you don not posses the required skills/knowlegde.

Summon Dremora: summoning Dremoras is a risky business, and often are possible through preexisting pacts with a particular Dremora or common summoning speech used to bring
one forth, while lower tier Soldier Dremora are common but no less risky to call fourth, Dremora Lords are a whole other animal and are best done by highly skilled practitioners with a clear goal of what they want the Dremora lord to do, otherwise the Lord will show little hesitance to strike at anything in range if left at its own devices.

Summon Atronach: Atronach's are similar to Dremoras in the risks involved when summoning them, they are often silent, and obedient, which makes them fairly deadly as they are not as predictable as the Dremora Counterparts, each Antronoch form has a different cognitive type. as with all Daedra a modicum of caution a preparedness is essential for survival.

Summon Undead: encompassing ghosts, wraiths, skeletons, zombies, Summoning Undead can be done on the fly with a weaker magically summoned variant, or one from a disturbed area were souls roam, by using summon undead and culminate of appropriate assemblage of bones and weapons, flesh and cloth, or a spirit will come to your aid, Failure of such results in either a dude casting, or another opponent to clash blades with. (or run from)

Turn Undead: Lesser instances of this spell effect will send undead creatures fleeing from your sight, greater instances burning them and banishing them from their corporeal forms. failure results in..failure and a mad spirit.



School of Destruction

The school of destruction utilizes the more arcane and detrimental aspects of magicka to bring to bare against both living and undead things. lacking training in this school can incur recoil damage from spells beyond the casters ability, it is the most intense in magicka usage and can wear down a novice caster fairly quickly. most spell failures include a fizz out of sorts for botched casts, it is also one of the more risky schools to delve into when making your own spell, potentially setting the area around you on fire.

Spoiler
Damage Attribute/Health/Magical/Stamina: this is a purely magical effects handy-capping its related target, where its applying unseen damage to a targets health, breaking their Magicka, or Stamina a target without the appropriate defense will find themselves falling really fast, Single caste Damage spells take a significant amount of Magicka use and more often harm other effects in addition to their intended targets but to a lesser degree, while temporary damage takes less, and is well...temporary. is extraordinarily useful with other destruction based attacks or those used in succession with debuffing spells. this effect is not pleasant for the victim and is not harmless like absorb.

Disintegrate Armor/Weapons / Area: does as it says, this Spell degrades armor, weapons, barrier doors, anything inanimate is subject to this spell effect, when used in conjunction with out destruction spells, that particular effect is enhance, and can chip away defenses vulnerable to its type, like a disintegrating fireball on a barrier, however because of its purely magical nature residual effects like frost, burn and frost only last the duration of the entire spell, failure results in a wild cast or destruction of personal equipment. resisted naturally by enchanted weapons/armor.

Absorb(Restoration)/Drain: works similar to Damage, but the damage is done overtime consistently, Drain is not instance, and in its use the users magicka pool is reduced, however the effects can easily turn the tide of battle and are useful for items to gain a charge, store it , and apply to yourself on an enchanted object. failure results in a dud caste, or polarized Drain/Absorb. this effect is also harmful unlike absorb.

Fire Damage: Produces the Magical elemental version of Fire, as potent and just as dangerous, magical fire remains as long as its duration/power of the spell, with some naturally heat produced flares remaining behind, Fire damage can be focused into a stream, a volatile ball, or an explosive bolt. touch based fire damage can be utilized in strikes or grabs, burning the area of choice and potentially instantly killing depending on the area. failure results in a dud caste or fire damage.

Frost Damage: similar to Fire Damage can freeze on contact, used on the ground can create a slippery area for opponents, will naturally evaporate after its duration is over.

Shock Damage: ditto can be used on bodies of water for an even greater effect on enemies occupying that area.

Weakness to: reduces resistances



School of Illusion

The School of Illusion can both effect the minds and perceptions of other living subjects as well as in higher tiers the mental domination of mundane and magical creatures and individuals. if you aren't careful, your own spells can backfire and compromise your own perceptions as well and even incur hallucinations, and being the mind such a powerful thing, your own magicka can manifest into a real personal threat...

Spoiler
Calm: the user wipes the mind of his/her attacker and evokes a sense of disinterest, the effect is increased when utilized with chameleon or invisibility literally forcing the target to forget you were their long enough for you to disappear. greater levels are required for high INT individuals or excessively aggressive animals. Failure results in a dud spell. higher levels can extend the effect beyond the victim, suddenly becoming disinterested in their current tasks, Zoning out, laxness, or even sleep when combined with Drain fatigue and Drain Stamina

Chameleon: makes the user into a silhouette(Sp) of sorts, you are still able to do actions such as attack and pick items up, but such will allow your opponents to focus on you more, the greater distance between you and a target, the less chameleon you require to sustain, opponents with abilities like Detect life or being hit by marking attacks such as spider webs, or projectile vomit will paint you out despite the Chameleon. some animals have a greater degree of senses and can locate you. failure results in partial chameleon casts or dud cast.

Charm: Charm Hijacks your targets mental processes and lulls them into having a greater degree of being persuaded, Animals are drawn to protect you and people are placed into a sense of ease around you, high INT can negate this effect and animals with higher senses /smell/sight etc etc can shake themselves out of the effect. Higher levels of Charm can have undetermined effects on the victim, including near insanity, incoherent babbling, etc etc.

Command : the greater cousin of Calm, Command Hijacks the victims cognition and forces them into service for you, some higher INT opponents may be well aware that they are under your control unwillingly and will generally try to resist, too strong of a Command can completely stupefy its intended victim leaving you with a useless husk, like Charm, permanent Casted Commands take more magicka and are prone to resistance while durations are cheaper and gradual, allowing for greater control.

Demoralize: Scaring your opponents bowels clean, this spell effect evokes an irrational sense of fear or hesitation in your opponents, where lesser creatures require little Magicka for use, Greater opponents like Dremora are nearly impossible to scare witless, Demoralize may not always work as intended as some animals and people as well will flail against their fears, putting a overly confident user into a blind flail in an effort to protect themselves. the effect is increased when used on Weapons, armor or even another individual. failures include dud casting or simply pissing off the intended victim even further.

Frenzy: Invoking an overwhelming sense of rage into your opponent, this is an excellent alternative to taunting, due to some opponents being resistant to taunting and some animals (they don't know you are taunting them) it can be used to force an enemy to expend more energy, and lose focus making them slip up, make mistakes, or not notices things (like the Fire trap I just layed on the floor) animals also lose touch and focus with their senses allowing you to sidestep them and evade them easily, or plain just tire them out and put them out of their misery, like most spells, Duration, touch and or short range spells take less magicka than do range spells, making spell such as a light fire damage spell and a frenzy can cause nearby enemies to lose moral at seeing a flaming raging beast of a man/animal. failure includes a dud spell or in a perfect world, your character getting pissed and going on a killing spree out of your control(jk)

Invisibility: this spell effect phases out the user, they are still tangible but not observable in the physical world the effect persists so long as no extensive action is taken interacting with objects outside the players field will disrupt the spell, although undead/ghosts/spirits can still see the user, most other enemies not using spells like detect life cannot see the player but can hear them, unlike chameleon invisibility's optimal range is all whether close or far, but factors like projectile markers (vomit/spit/webs) can signal out the player, animals with heightened senses can also detect where the players general area is, but cannot focus on them, ranged attacks also generally miss. like other spells Invisibility can be used on objects to conceal them from thieves, or their seekers, but because of the magical endowment can be detected by Detect enchanted objects spell. failure includes dud casting (example casting invisibility and levitation instills near total nullification of being detected by physical means...as long as you don't bump into a chandelier, doing so could spook unaware npc's in their homes, and can cause them to react in a number of ways.)

Light: Illuminates the area via light Orb or object that the spell is applied to (rings, swords, Shields, clothing) the spell
persists under duration or as long as magicka is feed into it from the enchanted item or player, Light can be intensified to stave off light sensitive creatures/abominations, it can also be combined like other spells into forms like fire damage combined with light gives Solar burst, an intense daylight effect useful for keeping vampires at bay(those sensitive to light anyway), you cannot sneak while illuminated unless you cancel the spell or pocket/drain your items with Drain Magicka.

Blind: Obscures the Vision of the victim, often causes a slight demoralization for eye reliant enemies, has no effect on *blind* targets such as blind moths or those with high perception, negates the use of vision enhancing effects like night eye , detect life, detect magicka. when used with Light, it literally becomes blinding light, obscuring the foes vision in the appropriate intensity of the spell, enemies afflicted lose all focus on the player and will generally flail about, those with higher INT, Levels or well trained will at times calm down to better improve their chances of striking the player, sound plays a huge role at this point and taunting oh throwing objects can sway the enemy, to prevent the enemies recollection its best use in conjunction with frenzy or demoralize. spell failure includes Cast Dud.

Night-Eye: a spell effect used to mimic Khajiit's natural ability to navigate the darkness with little trouble, such requires a steady flow of magicka or relevant enchanted items equipped, it comes in intensities from low light illuminations to complete near daylight like hues, however the spell effect Light as well as other light sources can disorient the user or anyone using night eye. failure results in *blind* spell effect.

Paralyze: this spell/effect can range from making movement extremely difficult (coupled with burden) to nigh impossible applicable by poisons, Inhalation, injection. this effect as a myriad of transmissions, it can reduce the effectiveness of a combatant in battle, inhibits mages from hand castes, and make them vulnerable to attack, combined with Frost, it could indefinentlyindefinitely entomb and kill an opponent, or burn them alive for the more sadistic practitioners. failure includes dud caste of paralyze on self.

Rally: The opposite of Demoralize, Rally can invoke an overwhelming sense of bravado and courage into its target, at higher levels such can become near zealous or suicidal Higher INT *enemies* may notice something is wrong but they are compelled to carry out their fearlessness onto the duration of the spell unless they are able to resist and shrug off the spell, when used with Charm or command they are more susceptible to Rally, Rally does not substitute for a true leader however, who is able to invoke true bravery and zeal, but the spell is an excellent alternative to those with low speech craft and charisma. one thoughtful way to employ this spell is to caste it on a sword, with an area effect and caste on activation not hit (or you'll be making your enemies more willing to kill you) then brandish your sword in a rally call and the effect will boost their moral. failures include dud casting

Silence: Does exactly what it says, it prevents vocal castings and doubles the length of time it takes for castes that require vocal and movement casting, it also prevents foes from calling for help or rallying others to their position, if they die during the silence caste, they will generally make no sound depending on the intensity for some opponents this can reduce moral in combat. casting silence on an NPC will not enable them to talk, where it would be a decent show of superiority to your perceived lesser, casting it on an citizen is generally a crime and not well received. Failure includes back fire silence, one inventive way to utilize silence is in combination with paralysis leaving the individual fully aware but helpless as you pilfer their store, blind is also useful as long as they did not observe you prior, thus forgoing having your image posted all over town.

Sound: apart of the casting inhibiting spells, Sound creates a thought scattering noise on the victim, disabling thought evoked spells (spells casted by recalling them or remembering them) much of the enemies or players spell repertoire is disabled for the spells duration, and combined with the other spells of its kind can be quite potent, in addition sound combined with a fire ball can have a demoralizing effect on lesser creatures and enemies. spell failing includes self infliction of sound, and *shell shock* type of effect.


School of Mysticism I know its gone

Mysticism involves the manipulation of magical forces and boundaries to bypass the structures and limitations of the physical world

Spoiler
Detect Life : Allows the user to see living things through solid objects. whether they are cloaked by darkness or Magic, so long as they have life, they will glow. failure includes spell dud caste.

Dispel: depending on the casters proficiency, this spell can severely weaken or utterly abolish any Magicka based spell present on an object, from falling shields, wiping away buffs, and Enchanted weapons (effective when used with Drain can completely remove the enchantments) Dispel is essentially voiding Magicka from an object or area. failures include spell dud caste.

Absorption/Reflect Damage/Spells are inherent in magicka Shield, certain birth signs and combination of certain perks as well.

Soul Trap: makes the smallest applicable soul gem active for the target in question as to which it will encase that living targets soul upon death. spell failure includes spell dud caste or soul escaping based on its strength

Telekinesis: you to pick up an item or individual from a distance based on strength of the spell. from there you can bring them to you and send them flying at another target, higher levels allow for multiple/heavier objects to be utilized as either shields or projectile weapons, even as building blocks to access other areas. spell failures include dud cast, uncontrolled telekinetic throws, application on self and aforementioned Throws, or wild cast.


School of Restoration
The school of Restoration utilizes magicka to Fortify, Restore and absorb the caster in question, most spell failures include a simple spell dud, nothing too detrimental.
Spoiler
Absorb: from Magicka to health, attributes and skills Absorb allows to user to gain strength from other individuals/Objects for a temporary boost, the effect is not harmful and is somewhat symbiotic like drain, where the victim / source ceases so are the gains, like drain spell effect failures include polarization of the stream, this spell is useful for absorbing magical items or friendlies with strength to spare.

Cure Disease/Poison/Paralysis: this spell effect reduces or removes the effects of their appropriate relations, Reduced spell effects are able to comeback in intensity for low cost duration cures while removing them completely or reducing them completely takes more Magicka, Failures include dud spell cast.

Fortify: Like Absorb, Fortify gives a substantial boost to the user wherever the deem relevant, the spell is dependent on the amount of Magica available to the cast, because both temporary and permanent fortify are based from magick, their effects can be nulled by dispel and or damage/drain magicka. the spell draws from the amount of magicka applied to it for a duration, or drains on the fly until the duration ends or you run out of magicka, its in fact a buffer so even losing health beyond the amount you had already wont necessarily kill you out right, and instead from your magicka pool or fortify spell

Resist: resist nullifies detrimental effects pertaining to their caste type (shock, fire, frost,etc etc) as with all the other spell effects in Restoration it can be permanent or duration and can be nulled by Dispel, spell failures include spell dud.

Restore: Returns attributes/health/Stamina back to normal, if used while under duress from a drain/damage effect the spell will be continuous naively until the opposing effect cease, duration ends, or magicka supply runs out. spell failures include spell dud.

User avatar
Amelia Pritchard
 
Posts: 3445
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:40 am

Post » Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:38 am

I remember in the gameinformer podcast interview Todd Howard said that spell like fireball would be done by selecting an element (fire) and a shape (in this case projectile) so i think while the rigid system we're familiar with from oblivion where you make a set spell (fire damage x points on target) will be replaced by a more fluid system.

Which has me very excited about the whole thing. I can imagine a few scenarios but my most recent thoughts on how magic will look:

Destruction, as an example:
There are two basic divisions in Destruction. Spells governed by the perk/tech tree and unique, special spells gathered through training, quests, purchases at "MagicMart"

Perk Tree spells:

1. You have your basic elemental Destruction spells (Fire, Shock, Ice, etc), when you start the game you learn the spell "Fire", it is cast on touch, fixed magnitude, fixed duration
2. Changes to the basic vanilla Destruction spells are then learned as you level up governed by the perk system:
- perk to manipulate magnitude and duration of Destruction spells
- perk to cast and manipulate area effect Destruction spells (fire balls, ice arrows, flame thrower, etc)
- perk to hold and "tie off" Destruction spells (setting spell traps, constant flame thrower, etc)
3. Max spell magnitude, rate of magicka burning, chance of high level spell backfiring, etc are then all governed by skill and character level.

This way you may have access to 3-5 basic Destruction spells and added with a handful of perks be able to manipulate those few spells hundreds of ways.

Then you have a separate spell casting series for specially made mixed spells... that are minimally governed by the tech tree or not governed by it at all. This would be spells that involved mixed skills (Alteration and Illusion at the same time, for example)... if spell making were added then this is where it would be. As long as Bethesda crafts some of their own specially made ones and allows minimal manipulation based on the above described perk tree I would be happy.
User avatar
Jynx Anthropic
 
Posts: 3352
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:36 pm

Previous

Return to V - Skyrim