[RELz] new mod - Sneaking Detection Recalibrated : IV - Oblivion

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:53 am

I tried looking at KSE, but that mod is insanely complicated. At least ten times more complicated than mine will ever be. And all the notes are in Russian. I tried hunting down the setting, but just couldn't find it.
I tested silence effects in my game with just basic Oblivion and SDR running, and I was able to cast spells after the silence spell expired. So I am sorry to say that there is really nothing I can do. And in all honesty, it may not even have anything to do with my mod whatsoever.
The only other thing I can think of is that there is a conflict between OBSE elys pluggy and OBSE av uncapper. Although I am not aware of any at this time.
I am sorry that I could not be of more help.

After a series of tests fulfilled with new start-game saves and avu libraries single activated I concluded that the issue apear in conditions if KSE and AV_Uncapper libraryes are both activated AND the following settings are:
Sneaking Detection Recalibrated.ini _______________________JCNAVUncap.ini equivalents_______________________________Value
set SaeIniQ.avuBlindnessDecay to ________________________set JCNAVUncapQuest.favuBlindnessDecayRate to__________1.95
set SaeIniQ.avuBlindnessGrowth to________________________set JCNAVUncapQuest.favuBlindnessGrowthRate to__________.25
set SaeIniQ.avuChameleonDecay to_______________________set JCNAVUncapQuest.favuChameleonDecayRate to___________1.95
set SaeIniQ.avuChameleonGrowth to ______________________set JCNAVUncapQuest.favuChameleonGrowthRate to___________.25
Probably, bugs can be coused by such values been applied for other settings.
Hopefully I'll be able to play with complement of all three mods.
Thank you very much for your obliging help!

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:23 am

im having some troubles getting this mod to work right.. nothing detects me at all when im sneaking even if i have a torch on even if im standing right in front of them
the debug txt says SDR - sneaking detection recalibrated initialized and the basic/advanced/hardcoe features activated but when i crouch no npcs can detect me

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 0.9.9.5]02  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm  [Version 4.5bSI]03  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm  [Version 4.5bSI]04  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.72]05  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]06  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b3p3]07  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9MB3]08  Armamentarium.esm  [Version 1.35]09  Artifacts.esm0A  Better Cities Resources.esm0B  Progress.esm  [Version 2.2]0C  HorseCombatMaster.esm0D  TNR ALL RACES FINAL.esp0E  TNR - ShiveringIsles no helms.esp0F  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.3]10  DLCShiveringIsles.esp11  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]12  Better Cities .esp13  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp14  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp15  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]16  All Natural.esp  [Version 0.9.9.5]17  All Natural - SI.esp  [Version 0.9.9.5]18  All Natural - Real Lights.esp  [Version 0.9.9.5]19  WindowLightingSystem.esp++  Item interchange - Extraction.esp  [Version 0.76]1A  RAEVWD Cities.esp  [Version 1.8]1B  RAEVWD New Sheoth.esp  [Version 1.7]1C  Enhanced Economy.esp  [Version 4.3]1D  Streamline 3.1.esp1E  MODRoadRogue.esp1F  Armamentium female.esp20  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.72]21  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]22  Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp23  FCOM_BobsArmory.esp  [Version 0.9.9]24  Loth's Blunt Weapons for Npcs.esp25  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp  [Version 1.09]26  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9MB3]27  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]28  ArmamentariumArtifacts.esp  [Version 1.35]29  OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.72]2A  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]2B  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]2C  FCOM_DurabilityAndDamage.esp  [Version 0.9.9]2D  FCOM_MoreRandomSpawns.esp  [Version 0.9.9]2E  FCOM_MoreRandomItems.esp  [Version 0.9.9]2F  T.I.E4MODS.esp  [Version 0.41]30  OOO-WaterFish.esp  [Version 1.34]31  Artifacts.esp32  Knights.esp33  RTT.esp34  Mighty Umbra.esp35  Blood&Mud.esp36  Blood&Mud - EE patch.esp  [Version 4.2]37  FCOM_Blood&Mud.esp  [Version 0.9.9]38  HUD Status Bars.esp  [Version 2.0.1]39  EVE_ShiveringIslesEasterEggs.esp3A  Unholy Darkness.esp3B  Active_Inventory_Spell_1.2.esp3C  RenGuardOverhaul.esp3D  Duke Patricks - Combat Archery.esp  [Version 3.2]3E  Deadly Reflex 6 - Timed block and 150% damage.esp3F  DRSplatter.esp40  Duke Patricks - Actors Can Miss Now.esp41  nGCD.esp42  ProgressRBSP.esp  [Version 1.0]++  Item interchange - Placement for FCOM.esp  [Version 0.78]43  Elves Of Lineage II.esp**  X.Races.Comp.esp44  bgBalancingEVCore.esp  [Version 10.52EV-D]++  bgBalancingEVOptionalFCOMAdditions.esp  [Version 10.]45  Better Cities Full - B&M Edition.esp46  Better Imperial City.esp47  Better Cities - Ruined Tail's Tale.esp48  Better Imperial City FPS Patch.esp49  Better Cities - COBL.esp  [Version 2.1]4A  Better Cities - No LEYAWIIN Flooding.esp4B  Better Cities Full - B&M Edition FPS Patch.esp4C  Alternate Start Revamped.esp4D  Sneaking Detection Recalibrated.esp4E  Syc_LongerNightsforVampires.esp4F  DeadlyReflex 6 - Combat Moves.esp50  Bashed Patch, 0.esp

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:02 am

im having some troubles getting this mod to work right.. nothing detects me at all when im sneaking even if i have a torch on even if im standing right in front of them
the debug txt says SDR - sneaking detection recalibrated initialized and the basic/advanced/hardcoe features activated but when i crouch no npcs can detect me

Hmm. Tricky. I didn't see anything in your mod list that jumped out at me that would cause any problems.
The fact that you got the "initialized" message means it found the .ini file, so that's not the issue.

In the ini file, at the very end, are some debug options you can turn on. Try turning them each on one at a time to see if each of the core elements are working when you toggle on the debug text ('tdt' from the console)
- The first one will show you whether or not tokens are correctly being added or removed from NPCs. If they are not being added, that would cause lots of problems from the getgo as they are needed for the hardcoe settings to work.

- Next you can try 'tds', which will display all the detection factors in play for a given opponent. Go into console mode, type in 'tdt' to turn on the debug text, then click on the opponent you want to get numbers off of, and type in 'tds'. When you exit console mode you will get a live feed of all the factors and what the current detection level is against you. Try different things and see how the numbers change.

- Also, what kind of gear are you wearing, and what are your sneak skill levels.

So try some of the above, and get back to me with the results so that we can start pinning down where the error is kicking in.

Saebel

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:49 am

After a series of tests fulfilled with new start-game saves and avu libraries single activated I concluded that the issue apear in conditions if KSE and AV_Uncapper libraryes are both activated AND the following settings are:
Sneaking Detection Recalibrated.ini _______________________JCNAVUncap.ini equivalents_______________________________Value
set SaeIniQ.avuBlindnessDecay to ________________________set JCNAVUncapQuest.favuBlindnessDecayRate to__________1.95
set SaeIniQ.avuBlindnessGrowth to________________________set JCNAVUncapQuest.favuBlindnessGrowthRate to__________.25
set SaeIniQ.avuChameleonDecay to_______________________set JCNAVUncapQuest.favuChameleonDecayRate to___________1.95
set SaeIniQ.avuChameleonGrowth to ______________________set JCNAVUncapQuest.favuChameleonGrowthRate to___________.25
Probably, bugs can be coused by such values been applied for other settings.
Hopefully I'll be able to play with complement of all three mods.
Thank you very much for your obliging help!

Nice detective work. I'm going to record this to my trouble shooting documentation in case someone else runs into the same problem.
Not sure if I was all that helpful, but I will accept thanks with thanks in return!

saebel

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:42 am

I've run into what appears to be a small bug/conflict with Realistic Levelling. In case you didn't know, RL works by giving levels based on total skill XP - there are no "major" or "minor" skills (that's how Skyrim's system works, BTW). When you level up, you can set it to "vanilla" (raises stats only, the rest works as vanilla), "silent" (auto-level, no notification), "verbose" (you get a message box with the standard message for your level), or "sleep" (you have to sleep to level up). Default is verbose, which is where I had it.

Well... I was in Vilverin killing bandits, and I leveled up in Marksman, which was enough to gain me L2. The message box popped up... but I couldn't close it. I could bring up the main options menu, but I couldn't quit the game that way, so I ended up having to manually quit (Alt+F4). I tried this twice, and it worked the same both times. Changing RL to "silent" bypassed the problem - I could level up just fine, and the game kept going. Not a big deal, IMO - I can do without those pop-ups anyway - but something worth nothing.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:59 am

...The message box popped up... but I couldn't close it...

Interesting. I had a similar problem with Enhanced Hotkeys yesterday. Updating OBSE to the latest beta fixed it.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:01 pm

I've run into what appears to be a small bug/conflict with Realistic Levelling. In case you didn't know, RL works by giving levels based on total skill XP - there are no "major" or "minor" skills (that's how Skyrim's system works, BTW). When you level up, you can set it to "vanilla" (raises stats only, the rest works as vanilla), "silent" (auto-level, no notification), "verbose" (you get a message box with the standard message for your level), or "sleep" (you have to sleep to level up). Default is verbose, which is where I had it.

Well... I was in Vilverin killing bandits, and I leveled up in Marksman, which was enough to gain me L2. The message box popped up... but I couldn't close it. I could bring up the main options menu, but I couldn't quit the game that way, so I ended up having to manually quit (Alt+F4). I tried this twice, and it worked the same both times. Changing RL to "silent" bypassed the problem - I could level up just fine, and the game kept going. Not a big deal, IMO - I can do without those pop-ups anyway - but something worth nothing.

I'll check it out. I'm hoping the next release will be my official one, so I'm going to be doing a lot more testing with all the usual mods loaded to get a feel for what is or isn't working. Realistic Leveling is on the list.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:24 am

Cool. I forgot to mention something else: I figured out what causes the "auto-move while sneaking" bug, but I saw you'd already fixed it when I stopped by the thread. The only reason I mention it now is that while I appreciate the fix (works great!), I'm hoping you could improve it a bit. Right now, it feels like you're walking through water, and every time you stop, you do that little hitch backward, which is a bit jarring. So the cause: tapping (not pressing and holding) the Forward key. I tested this, and it works about 75% of the time. If you can't, that's fine - at least it works.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:49 am

okay so i've done a little bit of testing with the debugging mode... tokens seen to be applying right i did a bit of testing killing/resurrecting npcs to see what the tokens would do, theyre removed when the npc is killed and added when theyre revived.
[img]http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/8831/screenshot3oj.png[/img]
although im not sure how tokens being added works, when i walked in the creature hall the token for the minotaur was generated right away but when i go to hawkhaven it doesnt mention anything about the npcs' tokens unless i kill/revive them with the console

[img]http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/807/screenshot2ep.png[/img]
still testing.. will post more

okay I think I may have found a problem, I tried the tds command with an npc in hawkhaven, i'm not sure what some of this means but what sticks out to me is it says i'm not moving when i was crouching circles around him.. [img]http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/272/screenshot4uv.png[/img]

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:14 am

Raven is standing there with a torch in hand, and still is unseen? That seems mighty odd.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:38 am

okay so i've done a little bit of testing with the debugging mode... tokens seen to be applying right i did a bit of testing killing/resurrecting npcs to see what the tokens would do, theyre removed when the npc is killed and added when theyre revived.

- Yup

although im not sure how tokens being added works

Tokens are added under the following conditions:
- The "actor" cannot be dead
- The "actor" has either a high or middle-high processing level
- The "actor" is within 1.2 times the max detection distance
- The "actor" doesn't already have a token

I just checked out hawkhaven, and recreated approximately the screenshot you have.
What stuck out to me was the sneak value of the opponent. Your screenshot shows it to be 100. Mine is upwards of 454. Perhaps you do not have AV Uncapper installed. That would make all the difference.
[img]http://www.creativehaven.net/ss5.jpg[/img]

okay I think I may have found a problem, I tried the tds command with an npc in hawkhaven, i'm not sure what some of this means but what sticks out to me is it says i'm not moving when i was crouching circles around him..

Are you sure about that? Because if you pause to take a screenshot, you won't be moving. My readout shows that I'm moving whenever I move. The best way to catch it is to hold down one of the movement keys, and while keeping it pressed, go into console mode.

Hope that helps.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:59 am

- Yup

Tokens are added under the following conditions:
- The "actor" cannot be dead
- The "actor" has either a high or middle-high processing level
- The "actor" is within 1.2 times the max detection distance
- The "actor" doesn't already have a token

I just checked out hawkhaven, and recreated approximately the screenshot you have.
What stuck out to me was the sneak value of the opponent. Your screenshot shows it to be 100. Mine is upwards of 454. Perhaps you do not have AV Uncapper installed. That would make all the difference.
[img]http://www.creativehaven.net/ss5.jpg[/img]

Are you sure about that? Because if you pause to take a screenshot, you won't be moving. My readout shows that I'm moving whenever I move. The best way to catch it is to hold down one of the movement keys, and while keeping it pressed, go into console mode.

Hope that helps.

oh wow im an idiot, i have elys uncapper, not av uncapper... thanks for your help although my problem was my own fault atleast now i'll actually get to play your mod

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:56 pm

oh wow im an idiot, i have elys uncapper, not av uncapper... thanks for your help although my problem was my own fault atleast now i'll actually get to play your mod

No problem. I'd never bothered to go into the testing area before, so that was kind of fun. It's also a useful way to test! Which, I suppose, is the point.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:08 pm

Working on some fun stuff in prep for official release:
- you will be able to set your own detection minimums
- once someone notices you, they get a big bonus to continue noticing you as long as you are in LOS and still in sneak mode. (I call it tue suspocious activity bonus)
- first "line of sight short range bump" now happens around nine feet instead of six. This distance was chosen because nine feet is about the range where you can pick a pocket.
- visual penalties (not just sound) if you are moving/running and in LOS of detector, modified by your character's scale. So size matters. The bigger you are, the easier you will be to detect anf visa versa.
- penalties will also apply to the detector if detector is moving / running, both sight and sound (gear penalties for detector). Concept is that if you are making noise it is more difficult to hear other noises. And if you are walking / running you need to stay more focused on where you are going, rather than on everything around you. (I just wish I could actually modify the LOS radius!)
- I am also going to look at seeing if I can determine if an NPC is engaged in conversation with another NPC or not, and if so, apply penalties to that.

So the strategy would be to wait patiently and do not move until either the NPC is moving or distracted in a conversation, stick close to the shadows, try not to approach from the front, and don't light any torches!

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:13 am

New version is up. Official release. 1.04.

I've already submitted a report to the moderators to change the title/tag.

Enjoy the new features. Let me know how it goes.

saebel

:foodndrink:

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:12 am

I've been playing with it for a few hours now, and I like it. I'm using hardcoe with a few tweaked settings, and the new light detection settings seem to mimic Attack and Hide quite a bit. I was in a cave last night, shooting arrows at imps, and many of them never saw me (even after I shoot them) because it was dark enough and I was far enough away.

One odd thing I noted: I was walking down the road in broad daylight and a barbarian (OOO bandit type) was on the road maybe 20 feet away with her back to me. She did the "Who's there?" routine, so I dropped into stealth mode (remaining unseen) and shot her. My light level offset is 0, and I tweaked the light penalty multiplier to 1.6, but still - she should've noticed me. It felt kind of cheesy, but hey - if she's that blind, she deserved to die.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:41 am

I've been playing with it for a few hours now, and I like it. I'm using hardcoe with a few tweaked settings, and the new light detection settings seem to mimic Attack and Hide quite a bit. I was in a cave last night, shooting arrows at imps, and many of them never saw me (even after I shoot them) because it was dark enough and I was far enough away.

One odd thing I noted: I was walking down the road in broad daylight and a barbarian (OOO bandit type) was on the road maybe 20 feet away with her back to me. She did the "Who's there?" routine, so I dropped into stealth mode (remaining unseen) and shot her. My light level offset is 0, and I tweaked the light penalty multiplier to 1.6, but still - she should've noticed me. It felt kind of cheesy, but hey - if she's that blind, she deserved to die.

Great! Glad to see it is working for you. Once you have been playing it for awhile, and you feel solid about your settings, I'd love to get a post of how your .ini is set up. The recommended .ini settings that I provided are my best guesses without extensive testing. I've spent more time creating the mod than actually using it! But I hear that's common for modders.

On a side not, if the barbarian had their back to you the entire time, then what you described makes sense. Light penalties/modifiers only apply if you are in their line of sight.

saebel

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:00 am

Sneaking Detection Recalibrated.esp is now included in the BOSS masterlist.txt sort order list.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:08 am

Congratulations, you are now officially on the http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1093197-running4covers-list-of-stealth-mods-2nd-thread/ as well!

So, I just figured I'd hop on here and give my first impressions of your mod; I just installed it with default ini settings and removed Stealth Overhaul and SM Combat Hide from my LO to properly test; I am very impressed so far. I created a new character (rogue of course), started him in the IC, and spent a good 20 minutes just seeing when I was detected and when I wasn't. Your line of sight calculations seem to be very accurate, and newly reemphasized importance of lighting was wonderful. Courtesy of the weather mod I'm currently running, I got to spend a few minutes with dense clouds overhead, during which I was sneaking much more successfully.

All in all I am very happy with this, and have no intention of removing it from my load order. Thanks for a great contribution to the modding community!

>>>R4C

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:03 am

Iv'e been having a look at the MOD in CSE looking for any issues with using it in Nehrim.
I had already changed the master to Nehrim & couldn't see anything that would cause problems, but the 2 Token Scripts wouldn't compile, with these errors

scn SaeTokenDetectorScript
http://img31.imageshack.us/f/20110416181856.jpg/

& this one scn SaeTokenPlayerScript
http://img534.imageshack.us/f/20110416182103.jpg/ .
I'm not sure if these are specific issues with Nehrim or with the scripts or even if they matter at all Regards Beebee

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:25 am

Iv'e been having a look at the MOD in CSE looking for any issues with using it in Nehrim.
I had already changed the master to Nehrim & couldn't see anything that would cause problems, but the 2 Token Scripts wouldn't compile, with these errors

scn SaeTokenDetectorScript
http://img31.imageshack.us/f/20110416181856.jpg/

& this one scn SaeTokenPlayerScript
http://img534.imageshack.us/f/20110416182103.jpg/ .
I'm not sure if these are specific issues with Nehrim or with the scripts or even if they matter at all Regards Beebee

Hi Beebee,

Actually, those are issues you have nothing to worry about. The scripts are actually compiling and saving just fine. I get the exact same messages. I think they are caused due to CSEs inability to recognize OBSEs array variable structure created within the block, but it doesn't actually fail to compile. At least not that I've noticed.

saebel

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:31 am

Great! Glad to see it is working for you. Once you have been playing it for awhile, and you feel solid about your settings, I'd love to get a post of how your .ini is set up. The recommended .ini settings that I provided are my best guesses without extensive testing. I've spent more time creating the mod than actually using it! But I hear that's common for modders.

On a side not, if the barbarian had their back to you the entire time, then what you described makes sense. Light penalties/modifiers only apply if you are in their line of sight.

saebel

Sure thing. I'm still trying to adjust the exterior line of sight setting to my liking; it seems that even when I stand reasonably close, in broad daylight, with the person facing me, I can remain hidden (see http://img197.imageshack.us/i/sneaking.jpg/). Other than that, I'm pretty happy with things as they are. (Edit: I saw an Imperial Legion soldier on the road last night; it was around 8 PM in game, the light was fading, and she was standing sideways to me, but she had a torch. I managed to sneak right up to her - she never saw me until she turned to get on her horse. Obviously it's not the distance settings.

)

I'm currently around 30 hours into my latest game, and I've been using SDR for most of it. My character is currently L5, a stealth-based mercenary/assassin who relies on ranged attacks. I'm using the hardcoe stealth package; I'll just list the settings I changed, since there aren't many.

Combat Penalty Adjustment: -40

Max Distance: 1200

Exterior Mult: x3

Light Penalty Mult: 1.7 (This is particularly effective with Cava Obscura and Enhanced Weather - Darker Nights (50); when I'm in a dark cave, shooting arrows from ~50 feet away, I can often shoot and go back into hiding. The NPCs will often come looking for me - which is logical, IMO: they know where the shots came from, but they can't see me - and if I'm not careful, they might come close enough to spot me.)

Sound Penalty Mult: 1.8 (When I first changed the settings, I went with something closer to Advanced than hardcoe. I haven't seen a reason to change it.)

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:01 pm

SDR is now also available for download on Planet Elderscrolls:
http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=OblivionMods.Detail&id=6608

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:34 am

this looks like very nice mod to have

sneaking is to easy.
but 1 question , reneers gaurd overhaul is a standard mod for me, is this gone bring problems to my
game if i install SDR ?
I dont believe so but am not a modder so i dont now for sure

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:07 pm

this looks like very nice mod to have

sneaking is to easy.
but 1 question , reneers gaurd overhaul is a standard mod for me, is this gone bring problems to my
game if i install SDR ?
I dont believe so but am not a modder so i dont now for sure

Hi Selerna,

I dug into the innards of Reneer's Guard Overhaul ( http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=5977 ), and as far as I can tell there should be no conflicts. RGO modifies the behavior of the guards, not the detection settings or variables. So it should be a nice match. In fact it should be fairly brutal to try to sneak around RGO guards because if you are using SDR, and are noticed while sneaking, the detector gets a bonus to continue to notice you as long as you are within line of sight and are still sneaking. Combine that with RGO guards following you around while you sneak, and you pretty much are going to have to walk away from whatever you are doing and try again later. :hubbahubba: